12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[Max_Headroom]

19 hours ago, CPN said:

This is how Hybrid Assistant shows it before pressing the Start button...

 

The link doesn't work for me.

[anchorman]

16 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

The link doesn't work for me.

No, nor me.

[CPN]

2 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

The link doesn't work for me.

Try it now... 

 

[Max_Headroom]

2 minutes ago, CPN said:

Try it now... 

 

Bad Request

Error 400

[CPN]

12 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

Bad Request

Error 400

Sheesh... 3rd time lucky... Try now...

[CPN]

Belt & braces...

[Gray86]

16 hours ago, AisinW said:

Yes,  all charger recondition the battery.  They all do pulse charging when it is below 10V. However,  all charge only revive to certain extent.   Once it is below 12V for too long,  the permanent damage often drop the capacity 50% or more.  

Just don't expect too much on those.  Keep it above 12V all the time and it will last 7y or more.  Let it drop below 12V for 1 or 2 days,  make it dead in the next few months.  

That’s fair enough. I’m trying to make the Battery in my Wife’s Yaris 1.33 last 12 years (which is when we sell the car). At 8 years now, and it’s holding strong (Varta AGM) 

[RickyC]

On 1/18/2023 at 5:45 PM, anchorman said:

I’m not convinced they are damaged at the point of sale. It isn’t Toyotas first rodeo, they’re not going to walk into warranty issues.  Warranty was one of my jobs when I was in the motor industry and you avoid it not promote it.   

I fear that there's a sum of factors:

• Long delivery times
• More components that stay powered when auto is parked. 
• Maybe different Battery technology
• Cars delivered to customer with 12V Battery not totally charged
• Covid effects ( lockdowns on 2020 / 2021 and migration from on site to remote work for may people )

Looking on forums I'm reading few complaints regarding dead Battery on Mark III Hybrid Yaris while more people had problems with Mark IV.  

[anchorman]

1 hour ago, RickyC said:

I fear that there's a sum of factors:

• Long delivery times
• More components that stay powered when auto is parked. 
• Maybe different battery technology
• Cars delivered to customer with 12V battery not totally charged
• Covid effects ( lockdowns on 2020 / 2021 and migration from on site to remote work for may people )

Looking on forums I'm reading few complaints regarding dead battery on Mark III Hybrid Yaris while more people had problems with Mark IV.  

No.  Delivery times are up to 12 months but the car is invariably produced in the last 4-6 weeks which is no different than it’s ever been and they know exactly what they’re doing in calculating the load on the Battery.  It amazes me how many people think they’ve thought of something Toyota don’t know about.  They ain’t perfect for other reasons but I’ve seen their research facilities and it’s not !Removed! packet engineering.  

[AisinW]

@CPN, Hi Collin, do You have 12.3V in ACC mode (2x press power button without pressing the brake?  That is very good. How old is the Battery?   My Battery is only at 11.7-12  V since 2 years ago and it is still the same as today but mine is already more than 7 years old.   I never have a single fail start up since the car was new and I am not worry if I need a new Battery soon.  Just get a jump starter pack from Tacklife for about €60 and charge to 50% and keep it in the trunk.   I used Torque Pro +Veepeak (€15).  

[anchorman]

I’m sure I’ve been more bored by looking at a photo of dials but I just can’t remember when - as Shania Twain says, it don’t impressa me much.  I simply can’t get excited by Battery data.   If it doesn’t start I’ll worry.  By the way I’ve been monitoring the paint on my new Cross.  I noticed that my Acme Magnatron 5000 analyser on scale No nine million, has hardened by another 0.0003%.   I’ll keep you updated on developments…. Might even write a book.

[AisinW]

I agree Don. I only provide some other things that you can monitor with such cheap OBD2 and freeware that cost 1/2 of any Battery tester.  Especially with most of us have Hybrid these days.  Dr. Prius can really tell if our hybrid Battery are still good especially the internal resistance reading and voltage variance between cells. It is important when we buy a used car.  The 12V Battery also can be tested by turning it to ACC mode and turn the head lights or blower motor on to see how much voltage drop under the load.  If it is always above 11V (1 minute headlights and blower motor on) , the battery is still in excellent condition. 

[Hibird]

11 hours ago, anchorman said:

No.  Delivery times are up to 12 months but the car is invariably produced in the last 4-6 weeks which is no different than it’s ever been and they know exactly what they’re doing in calculating the load on the battery.  It amazes me how many people think they’ve thought of something Toyota don’t know about.  They ain’t perfect for other reasons but I’ve seen their research facilities and it’s not !Removed! packet engineering.  

While you were seeing their reaserch facilities did you see any instructions as to how a dealer is instructed to deal with a flat Battery on a brand new vehicle prior to customer hand over. Bearing in mind the damage has been done at this point. Of course not, but then again maybe you did. I think it should be replaced not jumped and sold on to cause grief although I think we far apart on the issue.

If people could collect new vehicles direct from the factory (never going to happen) some not all Battery problems could be avoided.

I am also happy Toyota owner, I have had better and worse but I think there is always room for improvment but many don't.

I am sure you have the standard Toyota Hybrid accessory pack of overpriced charger and jump pack and appear to be a very happy Toyota owner. Thats all most people want and I support that.

I would be amazed if improvment & innovation at all levels of design, manufacture, & dealer experience could not make the world a better place.

 

 

 

[Roy124]

1 hour ago, Hibird said:

I am sure you have the standard Toyota Hybrid accessory pack of overpriced charger and jump pack and appear to be a very happy Toyota owner. Thats all most people want and I support that.

I would be amazed if improvment & innovation at all levels of design, manufacture, & dealer experience could not make the world a better place.

Never heard of a Toyota accessory pack.  Did you invent it? 

Of course improvements are possible but only in relation to the bottom line.  Will it sustain market share?  Will the customer be prepared to pay for it? 

I would not buy the 1964 £560 Ford spec car today though my 1966 £825 Triumph spec had a better interior trim than today's Toyota Corolla. 

[Hibird]

3 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Never heard of a Toyota accessory pack.  Did you invent it? 

Of course improvements are possible but only in relation to the bottom line.  Will it sustain market share?  Will the customer be prepared to pay for it? 

I would not buy the 1964 £560 Ford spec car today though my 1966 £825 Triumph spec had a better interior trim than today's Toyota Corolla. 

As long as you are happy that's all that matters ... 1966 Triumph better interior trim wow, glad I don't have a Corolla

[Roy124]

Lol, seriously, the Triumph had real wood door capping and dash. Driver and passenger Ash trays, a full width parcel shelf under the dash, deep plush carpets including up the doors and, novel for the time, Ambla leather seats and an adjustable steering wheel. 

Again, for its time, the seats did not recline and lacked headrests, and a radio was an extra. 

It also had a massive 11.8 gallon tank and a range of 360 miles.  Imagine that at 60 mpg. 

[Hibird]

37 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Lol, seriously, the Triumph had real wood door capping and dash. Driver and passenger Ash trays, a full width parcel shelf under the dash, deep plush carpets including up the doors and, novel for the time, Ambla leather seats and an adjustable steering wheel. 

Again, for its time, the seats did not recline and lacked headrests, and a radio was an extra. 

It also had a massive 11.8 gallon tank and a range of 360 miles.  Imagine that at 60 mpg. 

My rose tinted glasses are in for a refurb but did it always start and if so how many hours a day on an overpriced charger were needed.

[Yugguy1970]

This is why I wonder if there's a bad batch of batteries out there.  We ordered our cars while Toyota still had their stock of chips so the Yaris came quite quick, gets laid up for weeks at a time but never have issues.

[CPN]

4 hours ago, AisinW said:

@CPN, Hi Collin, do You have 12.3V in ACC mode (2x press power button without pressing the brake?

This was on first connection this morning after no use for 36 hours... (very cold night, about 4 degrees when I connected - door shut, everything else off)

This was on one push into acc mode...

Pushing it again (without depressing the brake) is pointless because then, Hybrid Assistant thinks that the car is up and running even though it is not "Ready" and so it "loses" the Auxiliary Battery display...

4 hours ago, AisinW said:

  That is very good. How old is the battery?

The car started its build in late July 2020 and was finished in August so it is roughly 2.5 years old...

I have only ever had one time during that 2.5 years (during lockdown) when I neglected to start the car and had to use my pack to start it. Since then it has been fine. I also bought a CTek as "belt and braces" but really, I have not needed to use it in anger so to speak. I also use my Solar Charger (occasionally) since the car is always facing South when it's parked in the driveway.

[Roy124]

Colin, I would guess that is simply a very cold Battery and not a dying one.  My guess anyway.  Probably a good idea to use the tickle charge in very cold conditions. 

I wonder what the HV batteries make of having their ions frozen, after all, in use they are kept warm. 

[anchorman]

20 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Colin, I would guess that is simply a very cold battery and not a dying one.  My guess anyway.  Probably a good idea to use the tickle charge in very cold conditions. 

I wonder what the HV batteries make of having their ions frozen, after all, in use they are kept warm. 

😂 Tickle charge.  I know, auto correct but it tickled me!

[anchorman]

54 minutes ago, CPN said:

This was on first connection this morning after no use for 36 hours... (very cold night, about 4 degrees when I connected - door shut, everything else off)

This was on one push into acc mode...

Pushing it again (without depressing the brake) is pointless because then, Hybrid Assistant thinks that the car is up and running even though it is not "Ready" and so it "loses" the Auxiliary Battery display...

The car started its build in late July 2020 and was finished in August so it is roughly 2.5 years old...

I have only ever had one time during that 2.5 years (during lockdown) when I neglected to start the car and had to use my pack to start it. Since then it has been fine. I also bought a CTek as "belt and braces" but really, I have not needed to use it in anger so to speak. I also use my Solar Charger (occasionally) since the car is always facing South when it's parked in the driveway.

Your gizmo is nice Colin.  I like the colours and it’s simple enough for me to follow it 👍

[Hibird]

1 hour ago, Yugguy1970 said:

This is why I wonder if there's a bad batch of batteries out there.  We ordered our cars while Toyota still had their stock of chips so the Yaris came quite quick, gets laid up for weeks at a time but never have issues.

Some posts here claim that the global pandemic, parts shortages extended delivery times etc have no bearing at all on the issues suffered by some. I am amazed that anyone can reach such a conclusion but they must be better informed than me or at least think they are.

Your Yaris like our CHR seem to be immune to the problem and that CHR has only done 3900 miles in 10 months.

I think the reasons are unclear but multiple & complex.

Think I may have won the Battery lottery

 

 

[RobertR]

Maybe they just put in some other brand of car batteries during the manufacturing process, if the supplier has problems. It's cheaper for facilities to put here and there some first or second alternative component(with similar quality) just to fix the supplier chain problems, an alternative is to stop the factory fully or partly, which is tremendously expensive.

[Roy124]

3 hours ago, Hibird said:

My rose tinted glasses are in for a refurb but did it always start and if so how many hours a day on an overpriced charger were needed.

Yes, it always started, after the manager of the local garage cleaned the Stromberg carburettor from black paint from the fuel tank.  Charger? 

The main expense was front tyres, 5,500 miles from a good pair of cross ply 😁