12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[davidif]

37 minutes ago, Hibird said:

The OP choice of vehicle is just that and I don't feel there is any need to critic that choice.

Well it seems that the OP's choice of vehicle is possibly unsuitable for his needs.

[davidif]

23 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

A second hand car is an unknown quantity.  Only after you have driven it for some time can you take proper possession of it. 

A car owned from new is a known quantity with a dealer support in that first or whatever warranty period. 

Well in this case the OP's new car is unsuitable for his needs. this may of course be due to the dealer not pointing out the unsuitability of a Toyota Hybrid to him. Certainly when I bought the Corolla the dealer went to some lengths to explain that the car would benefit from being driven regularly (no different for example to a good dealer explaining to the purchaser of a DPF equipped diesel that short journeys would do more harm than good)

[Hibird]

6 minutes ago, davidif said:

Well it seems that the OP's choice of vehicle is possibly unsuitable for his needs.

You say he has only done a few miles where did that come from ?

I did not see any milage numbers or was it just a made up statement to further your unsuitable vehicle choice tact.

 

 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Whether or not the vehicle is suitable for the OP is a moot point as we don't know what their full requirements were at the time of purchase, and what was discussed with the dealership at the time. 

So back to the topic subject, please - Yaris 12v Battery.

[Max_Headroom]

18 hours ago, Cyker said:

The simplest solution is basically "Use the car more"

Exactly, if you don't drive more than once a week why pay £20+ grand for a car, tax and insurance, use a taxi for local journeys and a hire car for the odd longer distance it'll save you money and anguish.

[Max_Headroom]

1 hour ago, davidif said:

Well it seems that the OP's choice of vehicle is possibly unsuitable for his needs.

Exactly, when i was considering moving to Toyota my first port of call was the forum to see if there are any common problems with the Yaris and this was one of the first i found, fortunately i wasn't looking for a hybrid if i had been and i knew i was only going to use the car once a week i would have looked at another vehicle i certainly wouldn't have bought a car that needed to be put on a Battery charger every time i got home from my once a week visit to the shops for fear it wouldn't start next time i got into it.

 

[Eddie G]

20 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

Exactly, if you don't drive more than once a week why pay £20+ grand for a car, tax and insurance, use a taxi for local journeys and a hire car for the odd longer distance it'll save you money and anguish.

Or get a second hand I.C.E car must admit if my mileage level was a bit more lower then it is would have been my choice.

[Hibird]

Not all Yaris Hybrids need to be put on a charger after a weekly shopping trip. The one I used to have could be left at an airport for at least 2 weeks or possibly longer without issues.

[Max_Headroom]

2 hours ago, Hibird said:

Not all Yaris Hybrids need to be put on a charger after a weekly shopping trip. The one I used to have could be left at an airport for at least 2 weeks or possibly longer without issues.

Sound like you got luck or your shopping trip is a 50 mile round trip  😉

This topic is probably the most discussed on the forum leading to recommendations for brands of solar, trickle chargers and jump packs and the methods to connect them to cars that are only driven a couple of times a week and that have suffered the dreaded 12v Battery no start problem.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Similar topics merged.

[Hibird]

1 hour ago, Max_Headroom said:

Sound like you got luck or your shopping trip is a 50 mile round trip  😉

This topic is probably the most discussed on the forum leading to recommendations for brands of solar, trickle chargers and jump packs and the methods to connect them to cars that are only driven a couple of times a week and that have suffered the dreaded 12v battery no start problem.

Just not unlucky, and it was a great little car. It's only issue was corroded front discs on delivery which were replaced at my request after a week. Not a flat Battery in the year I owned it including two 2 week airport stays and many short sub 50 mile shopping trips. 😉

[Max_Headroom]

23 minutes ago, Hibird said:

Just not unlucky, and it was a great little car. It's only issue was corroded front discs on delivery which were replaced at my request after a week. Not a flat battery in the year I owned it including two 2 week airport stays and many short sub 50 mile shopping trips. 😉

You say not lucky i disagree, if you read through all 13 pages (approximately 325 posts) of this thread you will find hundreds of posts by members who use their car as little as you and they have had nothing but trouble meaning they have had to rely on the aforementioned solar, trickle chargers and jump packs for peace of mind. 

 

EDIT TO ADD -

I am not knocking the Yaris hybrid in fact i intend to get one in a couple of years when the prices come down,  i shouldn't have any problems with the Battery as i use my car nearly every day to get to work and maybe once a week for out of town shopping, visiting family etc.

[Cyker]

10 hours ago, Hibird said:

Probably not the best advice for someone who does NOT want to use the car more but one that works. Ready mode or trickle makes more sense  and of course making sure the problem also becomes an issue for Toyota.

I didn't say it was the 'best' advice, just the simplest   There's nothing like going for a hoon on some fun roads when it's quiet  and the Mk4 is extremely fun for that - The massively improved driving dynamics, highly responsive drive train, and hugely improved torque delivery make this thing a really fun B-road blaster  

I love driving it and will take really stupid detours ('The scenic route' as I call them  ) just to put those dynamics to work

The alternative is a charger - As I said in another thread, even people like Shmee150 have to charge their super cars in storage if they don't use them regularly.

Toyota do need to do something (Bigger Battery, more aggressive charging profile, Kia-style cutoff&reset, something!), as it's a bit ridiculous that this is still a problem after over a decade, but as owners we can mitigate the problem fairly easily: By using the car for its intended purpose regularly, the car will maintain the 12v Battery as they designed it to, with no need for external intervention.

(Well, assuming the Battery isn't already knackered and needing replacing; Lead Acid batteries *really* don't like being left at partial charges for any kind of time, and below 50% they tend to degrade very rapidly! They are very unlike lithium in that sense, as they stay healthiest when kept at 100% charge all the time (Unlike Lithium which prefers to be at 50% - 0% or 100% actually causes lithium cells to degrade faster!!)

 

[Roy124]

For me the Yaris Cross ticks so many boxes that it would be foolish to reject it as its Battery management needed extra care.  Reading other forums and news items Toyota is not unique in having a Battery problem. 

As Cyker says, Toyota should provide a technical solution and not user workarounds. 

[Hibird]

It always interesting to visit a Hybrid 12 Volt Battery thread where passion and assumptions run at very high levels regardless on which side of the fence we find ourselves.

I think someone counted 300 odd posts about the issue on this thread, I have not counted but assume that a significant number were not complaints in fact just the opposite so not many in real terms. I don't know how many UK MK4 Yaris's have been sold compared to the number of active forum members. I will not make any assumptions. Further I am not sure how many folk would feel the need to post about their great batteries. I think all this further diminishes the number of people with a problem by a large margin.

As I have said before my personal experience of Yaris/CHR 12v Battery is great I have had no issues and would not be put off buying another Toyota because of these possible issues alone.

I think if the car is sold with a good never over discharged Battery and the advice given by Toyota is followed you should be good to go.

Of course if you get a battery that has been over discharged the opposite applies and some of those posting here are given less than a sympathetic hearing. However I would suggest getting Toyota to replace it under warranty or save the hassle and just spend the charger/solar/jump money on a good quality battery and do what you can regarding Toyota advice on the subject.

I am suprised no one picked up the fact my brand new Yaris arrived with corroded front discs needing immediate warranty replacemant this does not happen in a short period of time and would not have left the factory in this state. I think a 12v battery would be well flat by the time front discs were corroded to warranty replacement levels. I would wager that car had a new battery fitted prior to my trouble free ownership not to mention the 2k profit on resale.

And of course it's not just the number of miles covered per year but more about how they are distributed during that time. As pointed out by some more informed posters on the subject.

 

 

 

 

 

[geo13647]

Just to throw my thruppence in the mix.

when I eventually get my new Yaris Cross, this will be my 3rd hybrid, and 4th Toyota.

1st hybrid was an Auris, had the 12v Battery issue, which was eventually traced (after several months) by a senior Toyota troubleshooter, to a fault in the programming of the dashboard ECU, this was causing a parasitic drain due to the hazard warning switch having a 2 stage activation process, and although the hazards were off, the ECU thought they were on, and kept polling the switch, hence the parasitic drain. One hardware update and a new 12v Battery (insisted by me) everything was great and the car ran faultlessly thereafter.

2nd hybrid was a Prius, ran faultlessly, no hybrid issues at all..

So I’m hopeful that hybrid #3 the Yaris Cross will be as trouble free as #2.

[Max_Headroom]

1 hour ago, Hibird said:

I think someone counted 300 odd posts about the issue on this thread, I have not counted but assume that a significant number were not complaints in fact just the opposite so not many in real terms

 

If you genuinely believe "a significant number were not complaints in fact just the opposite" you really do need to read the whole thread (as i have) and not make huge assumptions! 

Lets go with your assumption and say over 100 members who don't drive their cars more than once a week are having major problems with the 12v Battery, i imagine a very small percent drive so infrequently that this becomes an issue so 100 on a single models forum in the UK is a significant number and  it is a major issue for those who do such low mileage.

[Hibird]

19 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

 

If you genuinely believe "a significant number were not complaints in fact just the opposite" you really do need to read the whole thread (as i have) and not make huge assumptions! 

Lets assume as you like to a third of the 325 are by members having problems with the 12v battery so over 100 members who don't drive their cars more than once a week are having major problems with the 12v battery, i imagine only a small percent of Yaris hybrid drivers drive so  infrequently that this becomes an issue 

I do not intend to count the posts but out of the 325 posts many will be arguing that there is NOT an issue.  I guess you don't agree and that's fine.

My Mk4 Yaris was a great car, maybe not perfect but what is. You don't but we do not need to agree !

Not sure where the once a week comes from but if it was 200 miles not sure it would matter.

[Graham47]

“100 members” is your assumption not Mikes.

My ‘guess’ is significantly less than that.

[Max_Headroom]

10 minutes ago, Hibird said:

I do not intend to count the posts but out of the 325 posts many will be arguing that there is NOT an issue.  I guess you don't agree and that's fine.

I am not asking you too count them i am asking you to read them, you made a sweeping statement that "a significant number were not complaints in fact just the opposite" based on nothing as you haven't read the thread, the majority of posts are by members having issues with the Battery and how they have managed to get round the issue few are from members who drive more than once or twice a week as they are not having any problems this thread is about those that drive so infrequently that the 12v Battery needs to be topped up by a charger or the car will let them down.

[Max_Headroom]

10 minutes ago, Graham47 said:

“100 members” is your assumption not Mikes.

My ‘guess’ is significantly less than that.

His assumption having not read the thread was "a significant number were not complaints in fact just the opposite"  do keep up at the back.

Thanks for the guess try reading  the thread as i did then no guesswork is necessary  😉

[Hibird]

16 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

I am not asking you too count them i am asking you to read them, you made a sweeping statement that "a significant number were not complaints in fact just the opposite" based on nothing as you haven't read the thread, the majority of posts are by members having issues with the battery and how they have managed to get round the issue few are from members who drive more than once a week as they are not having any problems this thread is about those that drive so infrequently that the 12v battery needs to be topped up by a charger or the car wull let them down.

I have read all the posts during this threads life and still think a MK4 Yaris purchase would be a good choice and far better than some other market offerings.

I think Graham is where he needs to be and does not need the keep up at the back stuff .... really sir !

 

[Max_Headroom]

21 minutes ago, Hibird said:

I have read all the posts during this threads life and still think a MK4 Yaris purchase would be a good choice and far better than some other market offerings.

 

As i posted earlier i am not knocking the Cross and one day will own one i agree they "are far better than some other market offerings" 

Customers who drive so infrequently that it causes this known issue *should be made aware this could cause problems and ICE engine model would probably be more suitable.

* Sales staff are never going to talk a customer out of spending £22,000+ so this will carry on.

Remember when DPF's started to appear on Diesels people who lived in cities and big towns were not told the car needed a good run regularly to keep the DPF problem free and they then choked costing many hundreds of pounds to get them cleaned or replaced.

Toyota should get their act together and sort this Battery issue.

 

[Hibird]

37 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

As i posted earlier i am not knocking the Cross hybrid and i intend to get one,  customers who drive so infrequently that it causes this known issue *should be made aware this could cause problems and ICE engine model would probably suite them.

* Sales staff are never going to talk a customer out of spending £22,000+ so this will carry on like when DPF's started to appear on Diesels people who lived in cities and big towns didn't know the car needed a good run regularly to keep the DPF problem free and they then choked costing many hundreds of pounds to get them cleaned or replaced.

Toyota should also get their act together and sort this.

 

I fully support any actions that Toyota may take that enhances customer satisfaction but the wheels turn slowly and I have heard nothing about possible future innovation to reduce the issue that some suffer continuing. Lets hope I am wrong

I never had a DPF so missed out on that party so was 'lucky' on that one.

"ICE engine model would probably suite them." not if they want a Hybrid

 

 

[Graham47]

22 minutes ago, Hibird said:

"ICE engine model would probably suite them." not if they want a Hybrid

 

 

It would be very interesting if we could get feed back from non-UK markets where ICE engined Mk 4s are available…