12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[Max_Headroom]

10 minutes ago, Graham47 said:

"ICE engine model would probably suite them." not if they want a Hybrid

Obviously if they want hybrid a non hybrid is not going to suit them and if they don't drive more than once a week a hybrid isn't going to suit them either and they'll be down £22,000 when they find out the latter.

[Hibird]

2 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

Obviously if they want hybrid a non hybrid is not going to suit them having said that if they don't drive more than once a week a hybrid isn't going to suit them either,  a classic catch 22!

I don't know anyone that drives once a week but accept such people must exist perhaps full electric is for them assuming budget and infrastructure allow. Anyway not something I have to worry about

 

[Max_Headroom]

1 hour ago, Hibird said:

1 hour ago, Max_Headroom said:

Obviously if they want hybrid a non hybrid is not going to suit them having said that if they don't drive more than once a week a hybrid isn't going to suit them either,  a classic catch 22!

Expand  

I don't know anyone that drives once a week

Neither do I and I said early in the thread that if this is a problem drive the car more often instead of looking at it from your kitchen window it's a very expensive garden ornament, that didn't go down well with the infrequent drivers.

I think the problem first reared his head when we had COVID lockdown and we were not allowed to drive, owners that didn't know how to use  "ready"  ended up with flat batteries and then ones that don't drive often added to the thread, now lockdown has ended we are seeing more of the I don't drive often types of posts, it's a shame as people will be put off buying a hybrid if the are not regular drivers and Toyota could fix this by putting a bigger Battery in but I bet they don't.

[Trewithy]

Is it possible to go to an independent Battery supplier and get them to install a Battery with a greater capacity? 

[Max_Headroom]

20 minutes ago, Trewithy said:

Is it possible to go to an independent battery supplier and get them to install a battery with a greater capacity? 

Good point,  i wonder if Toyota supply a heavy duty Battery that will fit. 

[Roy124]

No names, but in our last village we had a thriving high street, 2 supermarkets and 27 different places where you could eat or drink. 

If you used your car it was for the half mile trip to pick up the groceries.  We did not have a taxi service and a minority in God's waiting room used mobility scooters. 

Our E220 was definitely overspecced for the village. Is was, OTOH, ideal for transporting 4 adults from 2 locations, 200 miles, to a cruise terminal. 

Regarding a larger Battery, my dealer fitted a 42 AHr Battery to replace the failed 35 AHr OEM one. 

Covid lockdown was certainly a Battery killer and many cars would have been ownered pre-lockdown and before Ready mode once a week was advised.  Even once the issue was identified it took time to spread the word. 

At least the numbers who are now worried shows the knowledge has spread. Similarly, the numbers who have problems point to dealers not ensuring the lesson is taught. 

However it is perhaps not surprising that a dealer is going to minimise such problems. 

[Cyker]

We talked about whether a bigger Battery would help in another thread already; My thought was it might help initially as there's more charge to use up, but if the car isn't used much it'd still be in the same boat - Not enough charge being put into it in the first place, so it'd eventually run down and be back at square 1.

 

[Roy124]

Cyker, true to a point if discharge always exceeded recharge.   However if, say, a proper recharge occurred every 3 weeks but the small Battery failed after 2 weeks a larger capacity Battery would do the trick. 

I have now got my Battery monitor wired in to my CTEK charging cable and my phone is within BT range of the car. I can learn how the battery behaves over time. 

[Mikw]

On 2/9/2023 at 5:41 PM, Ken Machin said:

It seems that the 12v battery is not fit for purpose. Twice in the space of a few weeks my car has failed to start although it sits in my garage and is not exposed to extreme cold. I have had to call on Toyota Assist to get me going.

I now discover that this is not just my problem but quite widespread. I understand that by putting the car in ready mode and leaving it for 60 minutes regularly will cure the problem, even if the petrol engine is not running. The 12 v battery will be charged. I am able to do this in a locked garage, (with appropriate ventilation), but cannot turn off my lights since there is no off position on the new model, unlike my previous Yaris. This I guess will reduce the effectiveness of the charge.

Another way to keep the battery charged is to use a trickle charger. I have had conflicting advise about this. Both AA men tell me that I can charge the battery using the position connection under the bonnet with the negative attached appropiately to another part of the engine, whereas my Toyota garage says that this is not the case and the battery can only be charged when directly connected. This is difficult due to the position of the battery under the rear seat. Does anyone have a definative answer to this question?

 

 

When i do a "ready mode" session i reverse the car out of the garage a few feet and the lights turn off.

Other than that if i've had a short journey i'll just sit in it for a bit with the car still in ready mode and read for a few minutes.

[Mikw]

Just wondering what happens if you don't press the brake during start up?

I have to confess i do forget sometimes.

[Derek.w]

If you dont press the brake then some system start up and 12 volt Battery will charge but HV Battery will not charge.

You can charge the 12 volt Battery from under the bonnet but its not the best method I prefer a more direct rout so I have a connector plug fitted in the rear footwell  for quick connection.

[Max_Headroom]

10 hours ago, Mikw said:

Other than that if i've had a short journey i'll just sit in it for a bit with the car still in ready mode and read for a few minutes.

A good excuse to sit in the supermarket car park while the other half does the shopping  😉

[Roy124]

Mike raises an interesting point as does Derek. 

If you put the car in accessory mode, to listen to the radio for instance, it will shut down after a while to preserve the 12v Battery.  Or is it to preserve the HV Battery? 

I have a Battery monitor on so just put the car into accessory mode.  Voltage immediately dropped to 12v with no sign that the HV was charging the LV.  Must admit I switched off at this point rather than give the system time to activate if necessary. 

[Roy124]

Regarding charging.  As Derek suggests, a hard wire lead to  the Battery is best.  I got the garage to fit the lead and I can connect a CTEK charger using a long connection lead. 

I connect my Battery monitor to that lead when not using it for charging.  I have also connected the CTEK via the fuse box so that I csn use the Battery monitor at the same time. 

As Tony has said elsewhere, don't worry, but I admit to watching the battery monitor is instructive.  It has a trip output, same as hybrid coaching but the graphics seem inverted.  At low speed, manoeuvring on battery the track is shown red.  Descending a hill, presumably while the HV is regenerated the route shows green. 

[Cyker]

2 hours ago, Roy124 said:

If you put the car in accessory mode, to listen to the radio for instance, it will shut down after a while to preserve the 12v battery.  Or is it to preserve the HV battery? 

I think it is to preserve the 12v - All the cars I've owned did that in some way, even my crappy old Fiesta! And although that had surprisingly good traction it definitely didn't have a traction Battery!  

 

[TonyHSD]

25 minutes ago, Cyker said:

I think it is to preserve the 12v - All the cars I've owned did that in some way, even my crappy old Fiesta! And although that had surprisingly good traction it definitely didn't have a traction battery!  

 

This will apply to all accessories including interior lights, headlights, acc mode however doing it often will still kill your 12v Battery.
The hybrid Battery in Toyota cars can get damaged by water, moisture damage or heat , and eventually from lack of use if been completely discharged for extended period of time 6+ months, accidental car in scrap yards for example. 👍

[JimToday]

Agree the system is rubbish and Toyota don't care. We carry a car Battery and jump leads using at least once a week. We also plug in a solar panel trickle feed. I wonder if it is possible to get a crank handle to start it as I had on my first car.

[Guest]

Wow, is it necessary to remove a seat and, no doubt, trim to access a 12v Battery?

I do realise that underbonnet 12v starting batteries in some cars have restricted access, but having to remove a rear seat ------?

[CPN]

45 minutes ago, olonas said:

Wow, is it necessary to remove a seat and, no doubt, trim to access a 12v battery?

I do realise that underbonnet 12v starting batteries in some cars have restricted access, but having to remove a rear seat ------?

It is not necessary to "remove the rear seat" to access the 12V Battery. I fitted an extended cable direct to mine (for my charger) by just accessing it after removing the access panel that is in front of it.

Having done that, it has been a very rare occurrence to have to resort to actually using my Battery charger, so it has been just a "belt & braces" thing for my own peace of mind really. Sometimes the car has started fine even when the Battery was as low as 11.1V after we haven't used it for a few days.

[Malomaka]

2 hours ago, olonas said:

Wow, is it necessary to remove a seat and, no doubt, trim to access a 12v battery?

I do realise that underbonnet 12v starting batteries in some cars have restricted access, but having to remove a rear seat ------?

No you don't need to remove the seat, just the 12v Battery access panel. I then managed to connect the CTEK comfort cable with a bit of fun getting access to a terminal for positive connection under the front of the red cover.

Even after a long run yesterday the indicator always seems to flash red, maybe the Battery needs a recondition charge.

Just to add, I have so far never had any starting issues but I want to be one step ahead, just in case.

[TonyHSD]

After a long run and the 12v Battery not fully charged means most likely it’s on its way out.
You can try to recondition it with a smart charger and see what happens, good luck. 👍

[forkingabout]

A replacement Varta Battery for a Yaris hybrid Battery isn't that expensive & better then being inconvenienced having a dead vehicle requiring a jump start or assistance. 

[Dala]

1 hour ago, Malomaka said:

...I then managed to connect the CTEK comfort cable ....

Even after a long run yesterday the indicator always seems to flash red, maybe the battery needs a recondition charge....

Do you have any of these products? 

CTEK-productguide-low-EU-EN.pdf

Indicator from CTEK : RED means the Battery charge is below 12.4 V 

For me, the 35Ah car Battery never has a voltage greater than 12.4V in the Yaris 24 hours after the end of the drive
Only 2 days after charging, the voltage before driving is greater than 12.4V

[Hibird]

I think the answer for the 'once a weekers'  and very low miles folk does not exist for people unable/unwilling to take the actions required to maintain a reasonable Battery charge level. I do not know the reasons why that is not possible and pass no judgement on them. But it can't be the best place to be.

I would not consider a bigger Battery a great solution for reasons already discussed.

There is no solution other than keeping the Battery charged buy any/all of the possible methods, it is what it is unless of course there are other issues at work.

What about the future though, if we forget/dismiss new battery technology and current defective battery numbers (unkown by me but someone must know) the answer lies in reducing the quiescent current.

I have a watch that checks the atomic time clock up to 4 times a day and only requires a couple of hours sun every 6 months to keep going. This is unlikely to attract customer complaints about a flat battery.

Yes I know it's not car but it is a computer it has been designed in a way that it does not need it's own sunlounger to meet all but the most demanding customer satisfaction levels

I do not know how much of a burden all that 'My Toyota' telematics puts on the sytem or the real reason why it exits lets hope it's not going where BMW have gone with heated steering wheel charges or Tesla with $$ for power scheme.

I don't know if all that My Toyota stuff can be turned off easily or even not easily but for someone who uses a car once week they probably do not need to know where it is/how many miles it's done or the last route to the shops. And it may just help with battery discharge rate.

What thoughts do you have ? anyone have numbers for My Toyota overhead (I like numbers)

One day everyone may be happy !

[Roy124]

I fitted a Battery monitor a couple of days ago and it is early days to draw any firm conclusions.  However on first data, after a short run yesterday the voltage was 12.77v dropping to 12.51v at midnight - half a volt in 24 hours.

However from midnight to 1000 today the loss was just 0.07v or about 0.17v per day.  At that rate it would take about 6 days to drop to 11.4v assuming a linear drain.

The next week will see regular usage so not sure when I will have a longer no use preiod.