12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[Roy124]

4 minutes ago, Dala said:

Roy, how do you measure car battery voltage?
Multimeter or Bluetooth monitor?

BTM, precise values are unimportant, it is relative that is relevant, however the recorded voltages during the CTEK cycle are spot on. 

[Dala]

my chart from last month
charging the car Battery with the CTEK TIME TO GO device - the RECON program

[Derek.w]

When I am driving with low 12 volt demand ie headlights off ect, the voltage from the dc/dc converter is 13.6 to 14.7 volts in charge mode it also goes down ie turns off from charging the Battery so voltage readings drop to 12.7 or 12.8 volts so indicating the Battery is fully charged.

[Dala]

I think smart charging is activated
the Battery may not be fully charged
smart charging = car Battery killer
especially calcium car batteries

[Derek.w]

41 minutes ago, Dala said:

I think smart charging is activated
the battery may not be fully charged
smart charging = car battery killer
especially calcium car batteries

Not charging it at all so letting Battery voltage drop below 12.2 volts will kill one day let it drop to 11.7 more than once and its capacity to hold charge is greatly reduced.

If you using a smart charger you have the option of charging it fully lets say 95 to 100% or you can turn your smart charger off when its led for 80% capacity comes on to extend Battery life.

[Derek.w]

Chris connecting to a chassy bolt or engine bolt is because you using it to jump start the car and on a conventional ICE car its a shorter route for the electrics high current drain to the starter motor.

[Roy124]

11 hours ago, Dala said:

I think smart charging is activated
the battery may not be fully charged
smart charging = car battery killer
especially calcium car batteries

Can you expand on this?

What is smart charging the Battery, the DC/DC convertor or a CTEK or similar? 

Are you saying smart charging kills calcium batteries? 

 

[Roy124]

10 hours ago, Derek.w said:

Jf you using a smart charger you have the option of charging it fully lets say 95 to 100% or you can turn your smart charger off when its led for 80% capacity comes on to extend battery life.

What smart charger has capacity LED?  I don't think CTEK does. 

[Trewithy]

On my CTEK, according to the instructions, when the fourth light illuminates that is 80% charged and is enough to start a car (that would be a car with a starter motor).

 

[Roy124]

Thanks Kevin, that explains Derek's point.  Of course to stop at 80% (4 LED) means watching the box.  Still, probably as interesting as weekend TV. 

[CruxisCore]

Those of you with those small jump starters, any problems stashing it in the car year round? Here in Finland it could be -30 celsius in the winter and on a sunny winter day the car is gonna be like easily 50 degrees celsius and even 80 celsius if its 30c outside and straight sunsine on the car.

[Roy124]

I think the low temperature will be the  issue. The following bears thus out:

Lithium ion phosphate batteries can be safely discharged over a wide range of temperatures, typically from –20°C to 60°C, which makes them practical for use in all-weather conditions faced by many potentially cold temperature applications including RVs and off-grid solar.12 Sept 2018

I think your greatest need will be in very cold conditions when your electrical system is under greatest stress.  I think the only safe option is to take it with you once you get the snow. 

 

[anchorman]

18 hours ago, Dala said:

I think smart charging is activated
the battery may not be fully charged
smart charging = car battery killer
especially calcium car batteries

What evidence have you got?

[Cyker]

30 minutes ago, CruxisCore said:

Those of you with those small jump starters, any problems stashing it in the car year round? Here in Finland it could be -30 celsius in the winter and on a sunny winter day the car is gonna be like easily 50 degrees celsius and even 80 celsius if its 30c outside and straight sunsine on the car.

Ideally, you're better off keeping it with you, so if you go in the house, take it with you and keep it charged ready for use, and when you go take it to the car with you.

My colleague does, this and even uses it to charge his phone while he's away from the car (His phone's Battery doesn't even last a day  )

[CruxisCore]

4 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Ideally, you're better off keeping it with you, so if you go in the house, take it with you and keep it charged ready for use, and when you go take it to the car with you.

My colleague does, this and even uses it to charge his phone while he's away from the car (His phone's battery doesn't even last a day  )

Well, that's not really gonna happen to be honest. It needs to be low (almost none) maintenance or its not gonna happen, not gonna make a hobby out of carrying a start booster with me lol.

That said, if the average temps its suggested for is -20 to 60, it's probably fine. More than -20 is quite rare and usually a few days a year at best so maybe for those I can take it inside.

[Max_Headroom]

1 hour ago, CruxisCore said:

Well, that's not really gonna happen to be honest. It needs to be low (almost none) maintenance or its not gonna happen,

The problem is if you leave it in your boot you can guarantee the time you need it will be the time you forgot to check how much charge it has left and it wont have enough.

[CruxisCore]

 

13 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

The problem is if you leave it in your boot you can guarantee the time you need it will be the time you forgot to check how much charge it has left and it wont have enough.

I figure that is a tiny bit better way to forget it than never remember to have it in the car to begin with 😄 I'm not too worried about this specifically, as I can kinda tie with some activity I do often. Like for example when I drive to my city of origin to meet my parents (a few hour drive) every now and then, so maybe have it charging on those trips or something. Something regular but not every week. Or if the Battery holds up, charge it twice a year when switching tyre sets or something.

Is there any product that would be more aimed towards the hybrid cars? Ive understood the 500-800 A jump starters are needlessly overkill for hybrids with no starter engine. So is there anything that would be maybe giving a more sensible current for hybrid car needs? Or is it all the same whether it's just the regular jump starter? At least then I can help the wifeys ICE if that zips.

[Max_Headroom]

24 minutes ago, CruxisCore said:

I drive to my city of origin to meet my parents (a few hour drive) every now and then, so maybe have it charging on those trips or something. Something regular but not every week. Or if the battery holds up,

If you are driving regularly and doing this bigger run every so often i wouldn't worry about the 12v Battery. 

I have breakdown cove through my insurance which is cheaper than buying it separately having said that  i will drive my hybrid a few times a week instead of looking at it out of the window knowing the 12v Battery could soon be flat, having a new car and stressing about whether it'll start the next time you get in it is crazy just either drive the thing or buy a non hybrid.

[CruxisCore]

1 minute ago, Max_Headroom said:

If you are driving regularly and doing this bigger run every so often i wouldn't worry about the 12v battery. 

I have breakdown cove through my insurance which is cheaper than buying it separately having said that  i will drive my hybrid instead of looking at it out of the window so a flat 12v battery will not be something i worry about when i switch to hybrid

Yeah honestly I don't expect to run into issues driving nearly 30 thousand km a year, but I figured at like a 100€ I might as well be prepared to maybe not have to call AA or maybe help someone else from a pinch

[Max_Headroom]

I edited as you quoted  😉

 

If you are driving regularly and doing this bigger run every so often i wouldn't worry about the 12v Battery. 

I have breakdown cove through my insurance which is cheaper than buying it separately having said that  i will drive my hybrid a few times a week instead of looking at it out of the window  (as several members seem to) knowing the 12v Battery could soon be flat, having a new car and stressing about whether it'll start the next time you get in it is crazy just either drive the thing or buy a non hybrid.

[Cyker]

The next best option is just to leave it in the house and only bring it with you when e.g. going on road trips or long journeys with overnight stays.

The car is very unlikely to have a 12v problem during use - It's most likely when it's first used at the beginning of the day.

[Roy124]

I checked my Battery regularly and found no significant leakage month on month.   I cannot remember when I checked it last.  Following this thread prompted me to look.  It is still showing 4 LED which indicates a charge of over 75%.

I keep it in the engine bay, on a ledge in front of the radiator. 

Cyker's tip is a good one, get in the habit of taking it with you on trips.  Apart from under use, the biggest risk for a flat Battery is leaving a light on.  The best chance of that is unloading the car in the dark. 

[Dala]

10 hours ago, Roy124 said:

Can you expand on this?

What is smart charging the battery, the DC/DC convertor or a CTEK or similar? 

Are you saying smart charging kills calcium batteries? 

 

 

3 hours ago, anchorman said:

What evidence have you got?

small sample of driving measured by BM6

it is not possible for the ECU to evaluate the full voltage of the car Battery from the value of 12.27V in approx. 2 minutes of driving

a calcium Battery requires a special Battery charger, unlike other batteries. You can fully charge a lead-calcium battery with a charger producing a voltage between 16.1 and 16.5 volts.
for example this charger:

https://www.elmag.eu/en/automatic-battery-charger-12-v-7da66f46-7664-4ee9-9078-1e1bcaf5e5c0.html

information about the car battery from the Turkish manufacturer in the Yaris Hybrid:

http://www.mutlu.ge/battery-maintenance/

charging ca/ca car battery with a voltage of 14.3V is insufficient
therefore, it is necessary to use, for example, the RECON program at CTEK :

"The reason for the CTEK charger AGM+RECOND mode:
So if destratification doesn’t benefit an AGM battery, why does a CTEK charger provide an AGM + RECOND mode? The answer is that Calcium batteries can benefit from this programme. As calcium batteries typically charge at higher voltages, they are better suited to the AGM programme mode and its higher voltage (+0.3v). Hence it being possible to use the AGM and RECOND programmes together." 

https://www.oliverjobson.co.uk/cars/guide-ctek-chargers-and-efb-agm-and-gel-batteries-recon-mode-sulphation-and-stratification/

[Roy124]

I did ask CTEK and they recommended use the Lead Acid program.

How does that compare? 

And are we sure the Cross has a Calcium Battery? 

PS, just done a search for a YC Battery and several sites say No Battery. 

[Dala]

16 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

I did ask CTEK and they recommended use the Lead Acid program.

How does that compare? 

And are we sure the Cross has a Calcium battery? 

- If the manufacturer does not know the Battery type - it will recommend settings for regular lead acid batteries
 

-   

- I preferred to look under the back seat 🙂