12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[anchorman]

It is no different than charging a mobile phone.  If you keep using it and only give it a partial charge, eventually it will catch you out.  Remember it is time charging and not distance so all taking them for a long drive gets you is running costs.  You can achieve just the same by putting it in READY and not turning a wheel.  You can avoid a flat phone Battery by charging it when not in use - it’s the same principle.  “I never had to do it with my cars from the last 40 years”.  No, well you need to get used to it - stop moaning and get on with it or go back to your trust Austin Maxi “that never broke down”  Yeah, right!!!😉

 

[Nasus]

On 3/9/2022 at 11:31 AM, BarneyBy said:

I am amazed that people are just accepting this problem with these Toyota batteries.My brother has 2021 yaris hybrid and he had no problems with it when bought from new.Driving the same way as before and now Battery will only last 2 days parked up.This should not be happening.In the 1970s I had Skoda coupe could leave it in snow and cold and never refused to start.Car company's know they are having a lot of sub standard batteries, I had to buy new Battery myself after less than 2 years this was not a hybrid car was Seat Ateca.Rise up and look for car makers to supply new Battery.

 

Couldn’t agree more. Why are people going to so much trouble when it’s Toyota who should be dealing with this pervasive issue? Just had Battery issues with the 2 yr old Yaris hybrid I bought 3 months ago. It’s going straight back to the garage. 

[Roy124]

@Big_D

Bob,

There are two factors here. 

You have the car a 5-6 hour run shortly after you bought it.  That brought a new Battery to full capacity. 

Then you regularly drive 6-15 miles.  This is not the right way to consider it.  This could be 12-30 minutes, 6-15 minutes, or even 24-60 minutes. 

Enough 30 minute bites is probably fine.  If your traffic is heavy and your speed lower, that is better. 

[Max_Headroom]

22 minutes ago, Nasus said:

Couldn’t agree more. Why are people going to so much trouble when it’s Toyota who should be dealing with this pervasive issue? Just had battery issues with the 2 yr old Yaris hybrid I bought 3 months ago. It’s going straight back to the garage. 

Toyota are not going to do anything because 99% of hybrid owners drive them more than a couple of times a week and do not do short journeys every time they drive so are not having problems with the 12v Battery,  it is only the infrequent and low mileage drivers who are having issues.

[Cyker]

You're probably right, but I do wish they'd do something - Something simple like what Kia/Hyundai did maybe, as it's not a new problem and while rare in the grand scheme of things, it's common enough that I'm surprised they've continued to ignore it!

For sure it won't happen in any current model, but I'm hoping they think up a clever solution and roll it out to all future models.

 

[anchorman]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

You're probably right, but I do wish they'd do something - Something simple like what Kia/Hyundai did maybe, as it's not a new problem and while rare in the grand scheme of things, it's common enough that I'm surprised they've continued to ignore it!

For sure it won't happen in any current model, but I'm hoping they think up a clever solution and roll it out to all future models.

 

It’s not fair to say the ignore it Cykes. They treat warranty issues as critical concerns so they will either be on with something or they will be educating dealers to assist customers or improving instructions.  

[Dala]

sometimes there are situations that I don't understand
same time, same driving style, same road, driving without headlights on
the first day - the car Battery was not externally charged before driving

the next day - the car Battery is charged with a solar panel before driving

shouldn't this situation be the other way around?

[LesToyota]

Read much of this thread and found it very informative. Some folk have asked about the hybrid Battery placement under rear seats and how to get to it. I came across this video for the Yaris Mk 3.

 

[Derek.w]

Once a Battery has receved some charge its difficult to determin its level of charge straight away best to waight a few hours then check.

Toyota compounded the Battery situation in 3 ways first a small capacity Battery, then a charging system with a lower maximum charge output compered to what we use to altinator charging & the 3 is extra drain on the battery as cars new looking for your keyfob are you in range signal.

[Big_D]

5 hours ago, Roy124 said:

@Big_D

Bob,

There are two factors here. 

You have the car a 5-6 hour run shortly after you bought it.  That brought a new battery to full capacity. 

Then you regularly drive 6-15 miles.  This is not the right way to consider it.  This could be 12-30 minutes, 6-15 minutes, or even 24-60 minutes. 

Enough 30 minute bites is probably fine.  If your traffic is heavy and your speed lower, that is better. 

@Roy124

You are quite right in what you say. The 6-15 miles does take around 20 to 45 minutes, so time, rather than mileage is the critical factor here.

[Derek.w]

On 6/3/2023 at 8:51 PM, LesToyota said:

Read much of this thread and found it very informative. Some folk have asked about the hybrid battery placement under rear seats and how to get to it. I came across this video for the Yaris Mk 3.

 

12 Volt Auxiliary Battery for the MK3 the MK4 come out in 2020 its a diffrent type of 12 volt Battery and the Battery poles are the opposite way round for polarity & its uses a diffrent type of battery clamping arangment.

[Dala]

interesting article "how temperature affects the voltage and capacity of a car battery"

https://www.forestriverforums.com/forums/f218/whats-your-batterys-temperature-163735.html

[Stormi]

Hi, my Battery went flat last week, RAC said it was a Battery fault but Toyota insisted that after 13 months this is normal, I had to loose a days pay and drive 50 miles there and back over 2 days for them to re-charge the Battery. I do roughly 1000 per month, (car is 14 months old) waiting on a response from Toyota GB who, along with 2 dealerships say this is not normal performance 

[JohnD2]

F A O   The General Manager, Toyota GB

Sir/Madam

I have recently spent a considerable sum of money on buying one of your cars. The reason for the purchase is to ensure that my wife and I will have reliable transport to our local hospital for routine appointments and possible emergencies. Toyota cars have had a good reputation for reliability.

I now find that my new car, among others from modern stables, has a reputation for not starting after having been left standing for a few days. I now find myself in the LUDICROUS situation of constantly worrying about reliable transport.

Phrases such as ‘Merchantable quality’?, ‘Fit for purpose’, etc come to mind.

 I understand that Kia and Hyundai models have dealt with the problem by fitting some sort of ‘Reset’ button.

What do you intend to do about the problem?

 

John Davis

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

 

11 minutes ago, JohnD2 said:

F A O   The General Manager, Toyota GB

So has this been sent to Toyota GB or just posted on Toyota Owners Club?

Similar topics merged.

[anchorman]

On 6/7/2023 at 5:39 PM, JohnD2 said:

F A O   The General Manager, Toyota GB

Sir/Madam

I have recently spent a considerable sum of money on buying one of your cars. The reason for the purchase is to ensure that my wife and I will have reliable transport to our local hospital for routine appointments and possible emergencies. Toyota cars have had a good reputation for reliability.

I now find that my new car, among others from modern stables, has a reputation for not starting after having been left standing for a few days. I now find myself in the LUDICROUS situation of constantly worrying about reliable transport.

Phrases such as ‘Merchantable quality’?, ‘Fit for purpose’, etc come to mind.

 I understand that Kia and Hyundai models have dealt with the problem by fitting some sort of ‘Reset’ button.

What do you intend to do about the problem?

 

John Davis

 

Dear John. 

The car meets the requirements of merchantable quality and is fit for purpose.   It won’t cause you any problems in normal use so stop reading forums and worry when you’ve got a problem.  

Regards

[MCatPG]

We will be leaving our car unattended for a month, possibly 6 weeks, from late June to late July or early August. No power supply is available so I am going to use a solar panel and controller to charge the 12V Battery. The dealer fitted Optimate leads to the Battery at my request when we bought the car so it's a very simple job - but I need to decide what size of panel to buy. The choice at present is between the Optimate 10W and 20W panels (thanks to @Dala for originally suggesting this arrangement).

Question: Has anyone measured the discharge rate (Watt/hours average per 24 hours) of the 12V Battery? I don't have sufficiently accurate test equipment to do this myself. My best guess is that an Optimate panel with suction pads holding it to the inside of the windscreen, facing due south with an unobstructed view of the southern sky (not east or west), at latitude 50:36N in mid summer will run at 80% capacity for an average of 6 hours per day. I therefore think a 10W panel will produce 48Wh of current per 24 hours, and I think that might be enough. But has anyone measured this?

[Dala]

Optimate solar DUO 20W

Without charging I have a drain of approx. 0.1V/day = approx 10% = 3,5Ah /day = 145mA /hour

    

  

on a sunny day, 10W will be enough
if the weather is bad - 20W is better

I use this application to determine the position and inclination of the solar panel:  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.th.suncalcorg&hl=en_US

 

[cruiserOAP]

On 6/7/2023 at 2:39 PM, Stormi said:

Hi, my battery went flat last week, RAC said it was a battery fault but Toyota insisted that after 13 months this is normal, I had to loose a days pay and drive 50 miles there and back over 2 days for them to re-charge the battery. I do roughly 1000 per month, (car is 14 months old) waiting on a response from Toyota GB who, along with 2 dealerships say this is not normal performance 

IF this not a Battery fault or Battery capacity issue, and if Toyota are hybrid system wizards as they claim, why are they not capable of designing software which maintains sufficient charge in the 12v Battery to activate the hybrid system? Because that's all the 12v battery does.

Option 2- Nissan had 12v battery problems, which ruined the reliability rating of the Quashqai. Are Toyota using the same 12v battery supplier?

Option 3- Toyota are suffering from the corporate disease of never admitting responsibility until forced to do so in the face of overwhelming evidence. A tactic also used by certain politicians, although they will also go on to deny reality, although Toyota do seem to be denying reality by claiming that a well used hybrid with a flat 12v battery is 'normal'.

They should look at the definition of 'Goods fit for purpose ' as used by trading standards.

[FROSTYBALLS]

'Fit for purpose' applies to the 2015 Consumer Rights Act (and previously the Sale of Goods Act) and relates to the contract between the retailer (in this case the dealer) and the customer - not the manufacturer.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Similar topics merged.

[Dala]

I will never understand the algorithm for smart charging of the car Battery while driving
IMO 12.3V is not a fully charged car Battery or according to Toyota is 100% car Battery 12.3V?

 

[CruxisCore]

12 hours ago, Dala said:

I will never understand the algorithm for smart charging of the car battery while driving
IMO 12.3V is not a fully charged car battery or according to Toyota is 100% car battery 12.3V?

 

I wonder if a lot of these issues could also be helped with some firmware updates on just how smart the charger actually is 😄

[Dala]

This low charging voltage will be the death for cars that are not driven often. Longer driving time won't help when 99% of the time the voltage is 12.8V. Glory to the green deal 😞 I prefer not to take risks anymore.  Whenever the yaris sits for more than a day, I plug in the solar panel.  Good for car Battery.  Bad references for Toyota.

[MCatPG]

22 hours ago, Dala said:

I will never understand the algorithm for smart charging of the car battery while driving
IMO 12.3V is not a fully charged car battery or according to Toyota is 100% car battery 12.3V?

 

@Dala Where did that screenshot come from? Have you found a way to access the algorithm on your car? 

I don't feel the need to plug the solar panel in every day on our car and it's something only I can do, my wife just will not do it, she says we spent £30k on the car and she's not messing around with stuff like that . I think that perhaps 3 days inactivity will be enough to justify plugging in. But you are right, these voltages will destroy any AGM chemistry eventually regardless of the number of charge/discharge cycles the Battery is designed to support. Perhaps we ought to identify the manufacturers of our batteries (they may well be different in different batches of cars) and ask the manufacturers what recommendations they give for their batteries.