12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[TonyHSD]

Aygo X , Yaris mk4 and YX , all three are basically built on the same chassis and you can tell that by looking at their backs. There is one detail that is an absolute eyesore, the rear towing point. Most visible on YX and Aygo x, and slightly hidden on the Yaris . Only on the black colour cars it’s not so protruding, all others omg. Perhaps something that I will spray with black paint on the very same day of delivery  if I buy one of these.
Perhaps it’s just me, but it does really makes these cars look like they had been built in soviet countries. , especially the YX looks like Lada Niva 😂

[anchorman]

12 hours ago, nasamorpheus said:

 

Let the records show, this is replying to me, not quoting me.  Now you are posing a different question - so whether I say it or not is irrelevant.  Of course they could fit a different 12v Battery, your suggestion was to do away with it.  As Cyker says, that would cure it for some but why should the “normal” users pay to cater for those at the end of the operating envelope.  There may be times I fall into that category so when I’m away I put it on charge and I carry a jump pack in case I get caught out but I don’t expect anyone else to add that to the cost of their car.  You get those shouting “Toyota should supply a jump pack”, no they shouldn’t, that would get added to the car price which isn’t fair to everyone else.  

[Max_Headroom]

13 minutes ago, anchorman said:

You get those shouting “Toyota should supply a jump pack”, no they shouldn’t, that would get added to the car price which isn’t fair to everyone else.  

Toyota sales teams should be honest with customers and explain the low mileage problem  they could then offer the pack as an optional extra.

Has anyone given the car back saying its not fit for purpose?

[anchorman]

59 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

Toyota sales teams should be honest with customers and explain the low mileage problem  they could then offer the pack as an optional extra.

Has anyone given the car back saying its not fit for purpose?

Absolutely.  If a customer rocks up with a 3 year old car with 6000 miles (or something else unusually low), alarm bells should ring and they should be advised about how they might have to deal with it.  If the dealer wants to gesture a £50 jump pack that would be very noble as that doesn’t impact the more normal owners.

you have to be very careful with these terms of merchantable quality and fitness for purpose because legally, the cars meet both.  If you waltz in quoting these terms, you will lose your case - in a dealer or in court.   If you want to bring a case, you’d need to choose your words better based on what was said at the time of sale.  You might for instance argue you’d been mis sold the car knowing that very low mileage is in the high risk zone.  There are better ways of having an amicable agreement where a brief training course is given.  The whole subject is blown out of proportion by forums and Facebook.

[FROSTYBALLS]

With all of the new cars we've bought (21), never been asked what mileage we expect to do.

For most people a car is usually their second most expensive purchase, so rather than putting the onus on a third party to determine expected mileage, etc, surely it is down to the prospective purchaser to determine whether the car suits their needs by doing research and asking pertinent questions around their requirements.

In reality, few salespeople are going dissuade customers from buying a car by asking questions that may put them off the purchase. That's a fact of life.

[anchorman]

1 hour ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

With all of the new cars we've bought (21), never been asked what mileage we expect to do.

For most people a car is usually their second most expensive purchase, so rather than putting the onus on a third party to determine expected mileage, etc, surely it is down to the prospective purchaser to determine whether the car suits their needs by doing research and asking pertinent questions around their requirements.

In reality, few salespeople are going dissuade customers from buying a car by asking questions that may put them off the purchase. That's a fact of life.

Ordinarily Mike I would agree but my mate and his mrs have been buying Toyotas forever (since the early 70s at least).  Every 3 years at least they turn up for a replacement car and have never had any problems but now they have a Yaris and now since covid they are spending more and more time in their flat.   The cars are always low mileage when they go back so it is relevant now.  I think most people look in brochures when researching and these pop up YouTube reviews that think they know everything but never mention what a car is like with any age on it.  That gal off Auto Social thinks the steering wheel on the new LBX is too masculine - what on earth!!!   That’ll help somebody choose.   

[Lawnmowerman]

We (Aftersales) were always press-ganged on 1st & 2nd August in years gone by to help with the new car hand-overs (some 240 cars on both days). Despite trying to advise customers on the differences between the cars (p/x 1 year old Golf - replacement brand new Golf) barely anyone wanted to know - 'It's OK I have a Golf already' the following week had a steady stream of 'I can't work this' or 'Why doesn't this happen?'.

You can take a horse to water but sometimes what's the point......

[Cyker]

It's not even low mileage, it's low use in general - If the owner only uses the car for like 5 minutes a week to pop to the shops and back, that'll do it in pretty quick as the energy pulled from the 12v to power up all the computers and charge the brake vacuum etc. won't get recuperated.

You can get away with it here, because just going to the local shops can take 10-20 minutes due to the ridiculous traffic  

[anchorman]

2 hours ago, Lawnmowerman said:

We (Aftersales) were always press-ganged on 1st & 2nd August in years gone by to help with the new car hand-overs (some 240 cars on both days). Despite trying to advise customers on the differences between the cars (p/x 1 year old Golf - replacement brand new Golf) barely anyone wanted to know - 'It's OK I have a Golf already' the following week had a steady stream of 'I can't work this' or 'Why doesn't this happen?'.

You can take a horse to water but sometimes what's the point......

Again, would ordinarily agree but them not knowing how to work certain features but you can get somebody’s attention if you mention it might get them out of waiting for a tow truck.  The first conversation needs to take place before somebody commits IF the salesman suspects a potential problem.  

[Max_Headroom]

51 minutes ago, anchorman said:

 The first conversation needs to take place before somebody commits IF the salesman suspects a potential problem.  

I couldn't agree more.

[Lawnmowerman]

Is this similar to the ignorance (avoidance) in the early days of Diesel Particulate Filters and short journeys (by sales staff) - seems similar to me.

[Eddie G]

I was a tad surprised by the 12v Battery, possibly should have got back on TOC first before buying a Toyota again but thought the Battery should be fine unless sat for a week or two? but a very wise person i know being the other half does tend to tell me "You know what thought did" 😱😂 luckly salesman have got cars of in the past did say drive it but zero about READY mode.

[Max_Headroom]

18 hours ago, Lawnmowerman said:

Is this similar to the ignorance (avoidance) in the early days of Diesel Particulate Filters and short journeys (by sales staff) - seems similar to me.

They must know the problem exists so they are not being honest with customers, having said that I cannot get my head round why anyone  spending 25 grand on a car  wouldn't spend a few minutes googling common problems with the Yaris cross (or any other car) 

[Cyker]

It's not that hard to understand when you think one of the primary things people choose to buy a car on is not the handling, mpg, performance, but... the colour  

 

[CruxisCore]

And again, the 12v issues dont even come up with a "few minutes of googling" unless you specifically know to google about 12v. I've watched every review out there and scoured pretty much every english source. I found one or two mentions (or questions to the reviewer) about the 12v problems and then there is this forum. This is the only place when I've found any extensive discussion on it and even after all my attempts to find forums like this before purchase, I somehow didnt run into it until after ordering

 

[CruxisCore]

6 minutes ago, CruxisCore said:

And again, the 12v issues dont even come up with a "few minutes of googling" unless you specifically know to google about 12v. I've watched every review out there and scoured pretty much every english source. I found one or two mentions (or questions to the reviewer) about the 12v problems and then there is this forum. This is the only place when I've found any extensive discussion on it and even after all my attempts to find forums like this before purchase, I somehow didnt run into it until after ordering

 

Damn, can't edit/delete anymore. Just realized this was about Yaris, not Yaris Cross. I was going to add that probably if searching about the Yaris it would've come up, just not (yet?) for Yaris Cross.

[Max_Headroom]

51 minutes ago, CruxisCore said:

d again, the 12v issues dont even come up with a "few minutes of googling" unless you specifically know to google about 12v.

 

I googled "Yaris cross hybrid main problems" (no mention of 12v battery) the 6th link was to a Yaris forum and the 9th thread on the first page was titled "Flat battery"  i wont link to it as its a rival forum but i will pm you it if you want, the content of the thread is below -  

 

[CruxisCore]

28 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

 

I googled "Yaris cross hybrid main problems" (no mention of 12v battery) the 6th link was to a Yaris forum and the 9th thread on the first page was titled "Flat battery"  i wont link to it as its a rival forum but i will pm you it if you want, the content of the thread is below -  

 

There is probably some difference in algorithms too. Im still surprised how I didnt find this forum and i think it might be geographical cos im not based in UK.

Then there's also the part that a mention here and there about someone having a flat Battery doesnt say much yet. Like, every single make and model out there has a Battery going flat cos that's as much about the driver as well as the Battery manufacturer as it's about the car itself. And well, it's also a consumable part of the car. Finding the 12v thread here wouldve been more telling of a larger issue.

But ofc not saying there would  be absolutely no info about this anywhere, but you can ask my missus just how many hours I spent watching and reading reviews and looking around info about the car and the answer will be "too many" 😄 However, I've also realized that all those youtube reviews are only good for so much. Like, if you watch them, you'll come to the conclusion that PSA, Renault and Dacia make the best cars out there. As they are (for understandable reasons) very surface-looks into those cars and short term tests. I mean ofc if you test drive a brand new car for an hour, you cant comment on 10 year reliability.

[CruxisCore]

I suppose there is some attempt at innovation in the 12v Battery markets. Perhaps in the future years we realize that "hey, the calcium batteries were NOT the thing" or something else.

Also perhaps the wrong company won over the deal to supply the 12v batteries the last few years. Even with the same technology, not every Battery is made equal. Not sure if your CHR has the turkish CaCa Battery or something else (in fact, I belive CHR has 45 Ah instead of 35 like the Yaris'?). If it's that weird turkish brand, well... have not heard much good about them and I'm pretty positive that specific brand is half of this issue. People have switched em out (under warranty or not) to actual name brands and have not had issues since.

I have this half-lease electric scooter that comes with full coverage whatever happens to it. I know and knew beforehand it's not the highest quality but it doesnt matter when they send out a scoot or battery or whatever broke in 2-3 days if something happens. I've had it for a little over a year now and (like my missus) and combined we've had to exchange 4 batteries by now. There are just some cells that die randomly. It works perfect one day and then it suddenly dies. I feel this is something similar, **** quality batteries that just suddenly die regardless of if they are are used regularly or not. 

[bathtub tom]

7 hours ago, Cyker said:

It's not that hard to understand when you think one of the primary things people choose to buy a car on is not the handling, mpg, performance, but... the colour  

 

I once bought a car (KIA Pride) off a colleague for £50, because his daughter didn't want to learn in a car that didn't have power steering. I had it for six years!

Sold my SILs car (Vauxhall Corsa) to a couple that wanted something small for their daughter to learn to drive in. It became apparent when listening to a phone conversation of them describing the colour etc. The only thing important to her was it had a CD player. I searched high and low for a Max Bygraves CD to leave in the player, but couldn't find one.

[Derek.w]

On 6/22/2023 at 11:48 PM, anchorman said:

No they can’t. 

I dont think the Battery capacity fitted was avaible at the time of production thats EFB calcium.

Original was 35Ah replacment was only 45Ah. 

[anchorman]

1 hour ago, Derek.w said:

I dont think the battery capacity fitted was avaible at the time of production thats EFB calcium.

Original was 35Ah replacment was only 45Ah. 

He said they could do away with the 12v Battery.  

[Max_Headroom]

Not just the yaris. 

 

[CruxisCore]

Definitely not, it's pretty much all of these hybrids. The C-HR has a 45 Ah Battery and is still just as effected so extra capacity indeed does not do wonders.

Funnily our tabloid had an article today, where it was listing vehicle reliability. It said Toyota had gone quite a bit down downwards on those statistics, but only due to 12v Battery issues which have been rather frequent in Germany (article was based on german data). Also, it interestingly noted that Toyota Germany has taken the stance to switch out the 12v under warranty. Also an interesting tidbit was that starting from 2022 january or something, Toyota has changed the Battery supplier. But I'm pretty sure we've also seen some newer cars having problems here too? But who knows if they still try to use the old stock away even if theres a new deal going.

[RonYarisX]

I'm more mechanical engineer than electrical so who am I to criticise, but would it not have made more sense to have two batteries - one being a bog standard Battery dedicated tostarting the car? The larger / main  Battery can then drain as much as it wants, at least then you're almost 100% guranteed the engine will start thus feeding the larger Battery.