12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[Yugguy1970]

I still beleive there was a bad batch of 12v batteries.  On the low speed shuffle our 71 Yaris would never stay in EV mode without starting the engine, even with AC off and hybrid Battery full.

Our 23 Yaris never needs to start the engine unless the hybrid Battery is low.

[jthspace]

I’m sure when people bought their first Model T they also asked what they were supposed to do with the stables and 3 ton of hay they had left over after part exchanging Dobbie and the cart 🤣

[Max_Headroom]

1 hour ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

there has been sufficient information in the public  domain since 2020 that highlights the issues that hybrids

The problem is as has already been discussed if you Google Toyota Yaris cross problems there is no links  to this Battery problem, I always use forums when searching for info on cars but a lot of people are unaware they exist, if you look at the most popular Yaris Facebook pages you would be totally unaware the 12v Battery was an issue.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Not everyone uses Meta or other social media, and there are other sources out there ...

[anchorman]

I think it is relevant that other makes suffer similar problems.  I went to see a new HRV and the one in the showroom was permanently on a CTEK charger.   It shows the design philosophy is the same and Honda have arrived at a similar Battery size as being adequate.  As for whose responsibility it is, I don’t think it is entirely down to the owner to research problems.  If you watch any of the YouTube vids including the ones from the big names, they don’t mention it, they’re too busy moaning about the engine noise and poking sticks in the bumper.  I think it becomes the dealer responsibility to speak up when someone returns a 3 year old car with very low mileage.  I consider it a duty of care that might say look, you can own one of these things if you are geared up.  I have a friend who’s pushing 80 and she’s. Quite happy to leave hers in READY mode when she’s not using it much but not all would be especially if it was out in the street where they can’t see it.  

[CruxisCore]

I think the problem with most reviews online is that they are rarely long term reviews. The reviewers wouldnt have much to say about the 12v if they've encountered no issues. And if I was providing reviewers with demo cars, id make sure to have them charged beforehand just in case.

But if it's true that Toyota changed Battery supplier in early 2022, then it probably does indicate a bad batch, but it is also a common problem. Since they dont need the cold cranking amps due to hybrid tech we have REALLY small Battery capacitieis, which also serves to reduce weight.. Every manufacturer seems to be suffering from this more or less. That Kia/Hyundai solution of the 12v reset would be nice but it's still a band aid fix instead of fixing it at the root. They probably want to push the EV usage which is the culprit, but I feel they might need to roll back a bit and have the car charge the 12v a little more (a software fix probably but at the expense of EV drive %) or just have bigger batteries (more weight, less EV drive %)

I think the part about other manufacturers having same issues is very much relevant, cos if it was just Toyota, it would just be a Toyota problem, but it seems to be a problem for everyone making hybrids or mild hybrids. Im not sure if plugins are typically affected? And while some bandaids exist, they really all do seem hard pressed about fixing the problem at it's root. That said, Yaris Cross being actually able to claim 50% of EV drive is ridicilously good and no doubt every bit of weight and energy saving comes into play to that number

[TopGeek]

2 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

The problem is as has already been discussed if you Google Toyota Yaris cross problems there is no links  to this battery problem, I always use forums when searching for info on cars but a lot of people are unaware they exist, if you look at the most popular Yaris Facebook pages you would be totally unaware the 12v battery was an issue.

As a long-retired manager of one of the most sophisticated vehicle laboratories in Europe, I endeavour to keep up to date with the latest technologies but I was not aware of the 12-volt Battery problem on hybrids until I had my first 'no-start' experience only 6 weeks after taking delivery. Chatting to the brreakdown technician was an education. As I said earlier, I made it very clear to the salesman at the Toyota main dealership that, at my age (83), my driving is now mostly limited to short trips to the shops with occasional longer journeys.

[Tommy X]

I was unaware of the 12v Battery problems when I ordered my Cross until I found this forum, my annual mileage is low so got a smart charger, first job on collecting the car was to fully charge the 12v Battery, had the car for six weeks and charged at two week intervals using the jump start terminal under the bonnet as instructed by my dealer, so far no problems, don't know what make or type of Battery fitted        

[FROSTYBALLS]

3 hours ago, CruxisCore said:

I think the problem with most reviews online is that they are rarely long term reviews. The reviewers wouldnt have much to say about the 12v if they've encountered no issues.

Doesn't need to be reviews. A quick search for 'common problems with hybrid cars' revealed the following:

common problems with hybrid cars - Search (bing.com)

[CruxisCore]

5 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Doesn't need to be reviews. A quick search for 'common problems with hybrid cars' revealed the following:

common problems with hybrid cars - Search (bing.com)

Indeed, but what you quoted was mostly replying to anchorman's observation that reviewers just put wooden sticks in exhaust pipes and bumpers and complain about engine noise instead of commenting on these 12v things 😛 I mean, even a Citroen appears to be a good and a reliable car in a YouTube review cos jsut about everything works flawlessly when the ODO says 0km 😄

[Roy124]

17 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

Unlike plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV) or electric vehicles (EV), the Toyota hybrids currently in circulation do not charge with an extension cord. 

Arguable.   I use an extension cord as required.

You might also say that PHEV and EV require an extension cord though the PHEV, like the HEV can use just the ICE.

 

[jthspace]

I had a Mitsubishi PHEV, and the 12v Battery went flat twice on me in 2+ years of ownership, which is why I bought one of those cheapish (£60) Amazon 20 amp lithium "boosters" which was perfect.  It also boosted a flat Battery on our Citroen Picasso after it had been left for 4 months at a cruise terminal; connected to the Battery, waited 5 minutes and the car started with no problems at all.  The booster pack also has USB ports for charging phone etc.  Once charged, it only needs to be checked every few months.  In fact, checked it today after 3 months and its showing 80% charged.

[Max_Headroom]

5 hours ago, TopGeek said:

Chatting to the brreakdown technician was an education.

 

This is something many members who have suffered the dreaded flat 12v Battery have said in the thread the breakdown person always comments that they have been out to lots of them, i  dont think its a bad batch of batteries its bad design a car costing £20,000 +  shouldn't require a jump pack if not driven for a couple of weeks, my  08 Corsa is  parked outside (now belongs to my son) and it can go a couple of weeks without being started, the Battery is many years old and it starts every time!

[Max_Headroom]

and dont forget the scratchy plastics (that really does boil my ****) and if a 5 gallon bottle of water will fit in the door pocket cup holder. 

 

 

3 hours ago, CruxisCore said:

Indeed, but what you quoted was mostly replying to anchorman's observation that reviewers just put wooden sticks in exhaust pipes and bumpers and complain about engine noise instead of commenting on these 12v things

[TopGeek]

5 hours ago, Tommy X said:

I was unaware of the 12v battery problems when I ordered my Cross until I found this forum, my annual mileage is low so got a smart charger, first job on collecting the car was to fully charge the 12v battery, had the car for six weeks and charged at two week intervals using the jump start terminal under the bonnet as instructed by my dealer, so far no problems, don't know what make or tyThat seems to be the best course of actionpe of battery fitted        

That seems to be the best course of action to compensate for what is clearly a weakness in the hybrid principle. I also use an intelligent charger on the jumper terminal.

[Dala]

standard Toyota answers = CTRL+C , CTLV+V

[Max_Headroom]

Could a customer take the car back and ask for their money back because the car is not fit for purpose for low mileage drivers, surely the fact Toyota know it is an issue and do not tell  customers would give them grounds for an exchange to something that fits their needs or their money back.

[Roy124]

6 hours ago, Tommy X said:

charge the 12v battery, had the car for six weeks and charged at two week intervals using the jump start terminal under the bonnet 

If you don't mind, crack on.  You might consider asking the garage to fit a charging cable directly to the Battery and plug your charger in to that as required. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

12 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

Could a customer take the car back and ask for their money back because the car is not fit for purpose for low mileage drivers, surely the fact Toyota know it is an issue and do not tell  customers would give them grounds for an exchange to something that fits their needs or their money back.

The contract would be between the customer and the dealer, not the manufacturer, and any alleged mis-communication would again be between the dealer and the customer.

[Cyker]

For the sake of balance I feel the need to point out most of us aren't having 12v Battery problems...

As for taking it back, you have the standard consumer rights so you can take the car back for a full refund within (I forget if it's 14 or 30 days) for no reason; Within 6 months you can still get a full refund but you'd probably have to argue it out a bit, as I'm not sure if it's considered a problem under the rules, but I suspect a lot of dealers would take it since they can resell it easily. Past that you'd not get a full refund, as they have a right to charge a usage fee.

 

[Roy124]

29 minutes ago, Cyker said:

For the sake of balance I feel the need to point out most of us aren't having 12v battery problems...

 

True,  we just have Battery chargers, solar batteries,   battery monitors and jumper packs as well as putting the car in Ready mode for 60 minutes every 7 days. 

[RickyC]

On 7/13/2023 at 10:26 PM, FROSTYBALLS said:

As has been said several times in the past, 12v battery issues don't just affect Toyota hybrids

Probabbly the real issue is the growth of always on electronic systems in the lastest cars.  So if a 35 Ah Battery could be largely sufficient to start an old generation Hybrid car ( that has not starter motor ) it could become too limited if you have a lot of always on connected systems that need power to talk with remote servers and poll them also when car is in standby ( else you can't tell your car to start HVAC from your smartphone ). 

 

[Dala]

I had time this week and measured the parasitic draw with a clamp multimeter.  Engine off and car locked for 2 hours.  Consumption after 2 hours 210 mA.  Passenger door opening 9.48 A. Driver door opening 9.6 A. Start mode ready 15.66 A.

[Tommy X]

15 hours ago, Roy124 said:

If you don't mind, crack on.  You might consider asking the garage to fit a charging cable directly to the battery and plug your charger in to that as required. 

 

15 hours ago, Roy124 said:

If you don't mind, crack on.  You might consider asking the garage to fit a charging cable directly to the battery and plug your charger in to that as required. 

Roy, not sure what you mean by "crack on" but you seem to have a problem with the fact that I use the jump start terminal to charge the 12v Battery which I find convenient, I don't need to get my dealer to connect a lead to the Battery I a capable of doing it myself, I took the advice of my dealer which for me is a possible solution to not getting a no start, there are multiple repeat posts on this subject which haven't bothered me, we are all entitled to an opinion 

[MikeSh]

1 hour ago, Dala said:

Consumption after 2 hours 210 mA.

If that is sustained it would completely deplete a fully charged 45Ah Battery in 9 days. It would probably be unable to start the car in a couple of days less.