12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[Roy124]

The CTEK wiring kit is designed to fasten to the Battery and the garage had no issues with doing this.

[TopGeek]

On 7/19/2023 at 11:07 AM, MCatPG said:

Agreed. I copied the arrangement posted on here by @Dala, the dealer fitted the lead for me as part of the PDI, and you'd never notice it unless you were looking for it. Because I have an electric hatch I prefer to have everything inside the passenger compartment including the Starter bank.

If you ever have kids in the back, I guarantee they'll find it.

[CruxisCore]

2 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

In most demos they tell you to attach Red clamp to the + terminal and black to earth (a bolt head etc) but in this its suggests only using both battery terminals is this correct?

 

TBH this was the way we always used to do it back in the day i assume the newer method its something to do with not frying the ECU.

 

 

I

Doesn't make a difference. If you are actually at the Battery, then it works the same to use the minus terminal, but I believe there are two reasons to put - to chassis. 

1) There may be gas that could ignite from a spark from the Battery, so putting - elsewhere on the chassis reduces the chance for sparks to ignite anything

2) Apparently a straighter path for the returning current than through the dead battery's - terminal

 

Either way, the - on the Battery is connected to the chassis as well, so it really doesnt make much a difference. I doubt even that inflammable gas thing isnt a thing with sealed batteries, but ofc could always have a damaged/defective battery.

For what it's worth, the manual tells you to put the - cable to the chassis when jumping from under the bonnet. There is even a specific spot they recommend, but most small boosters won't reach that far.

 

[Derek.w]

10 hours ago, Xerapin said:

Okay, I probably should have read this thread sooner. There are 50 odd pages and I've skimmed a load. On my new 23 plate Toyota Yaris X, should I be worried?

Typical usage is going to be 100 miles one day a week (Mon-Fri), varied trips over the weekend (upto 200miles, sometimes 0miles) and ~5-10min trips daily first thing in the morning (for the doggo walk).

Are the short trips going to drain the battery? I'm guessing the longer 100+mile trips once a week should keep the batter topped up?

Is there any way in the car software / app / etc to see what state the 12v is in? Guessing from the above this will need some under the hood trickery which is not something I've done with my car before, so maybe I should start..

I often do 3 short trips and a total of 10 miles thats not a problem by itself but it can be if car sits for the rest of the week then its repeated for the next two weeks.

[MCatPG]

Reading recent comments it may be worth mentioning again that mileage is irrelevant when thinking about maintaining the 12V auxiliary Battery. If you are not charging it from an external source it is the length of time that the car is in "Ready" mode that matters, not the miles that you drive. A trip of 10 miles taking an hour because you are stuck in traffic will result in the same charge for the 12V Battery as a trip of 60 miles taking the same time. Obviously the other relevant factor is the load you are putting on the 12V Battery during the trip. I know this is obvious to 90% of the people reading this thread but I get the feeling that there might be a few people who could use this reminder. BTW, the dealers who are starting to think that the 12V battery issue means they should question customers about their use of their car should not be asking customers how many miles they do. They should be asking how many hours each week their car will be in "Ready" mode.

[Max_Headroom]

13 hours ago, CruxisCore said:

1) There may be gas that could ignite from a spark from the battery, so putting - elsewhere on the chassis reduces the chance for sparks to ignite anything

Thanks, I now remember the gas problem but as ours is under the seat we don't need to worry about that. 

[jthspace]

It's what's ON the seat that can be a problem 🤣

[Charliewatch]

Hi there,l had my 2022 yaris serviced on Tuesday its first service.

When l picked it up the service bloke told me the 12 volt Battery is Amber condition and needs charging.

I was astounded by this warning,he said its because my driving around town isn't good for the 12 volt Battery,so l told him that l have been driving around Wales 120 miles a day,to which he said that's just as bad l cannot win.

What have l done wrong with my driving.

[Dezzer21]

 

If you are not a regular user of the car you can buy something likethis https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B093V384KK?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_BTXY3Q0ZCZ75CKB6DV5K, plug it in and you can monitor Battery voltage easily, once you see voltage dropsbelow  11v while the car is in starting process you can hook up external Battery charger like ctek 5 for example and leave it connected for aslong as the charger needs to fully charge your Battery. Doing so once amonth and most likely you will never have to worry about flat batteryagain. 👍

I have sent for one of these from INIU website cheaper than Amazon £9.39 delivered.

[Graham47]

Nothing !
I think he’s telling ‘porkies’ to avoid having to replace under warranty !!
’ 

[Xerapin]

Appreciate all your insights folks! As my short trips are ~5mins long (2miles) daily to take the doggo over to the country park, and I'll be doing one 100 mile round trip a week (office), I should be okay. Out of abundance of caution though I'll be buying a voltage sensor like the one Dezzer and others have described and getting mains Battery charger to have _just incase_, in theory if the voltage meter in the cigarette lighter reads correctly I should never leave the house with a close to flat Battery.

 

~Thanks again! 🙂

[Sooty]

Hi David,

I am wondering which dealer you used.

I have had dealings with "techs" talking out of their rear ends and then spoke with the service manager explaining that I was a mechanic for 23 years in the Army. Since then if their are any issues I am asked to go into the workshop and see the issue myself.

Have a word with the service manager and ask him /her to explain why driving 120 miles plus is bad for the 12V Battery. I bet that they can't explain it and will try BSing you.

If you don't get any joy then raise a complaint to the site manager and to Toyota head office (If it was a Toyota Dealership)

[Roy124]

23 minutes ago, Graham47 said:

Nothing !
I think he’s telling ‘porkies’ to avoid having to replace under warranty !!
’ 

Or trying to find a billable item.  Have you had any issues with the 12v system?  If you have a voltmeter check the voltage yourself - do it after it has been unpowered over night.  Check again after a trip as soon as you switch off.  The first cold reading should be lower after the Battery has settled down and  12 hours of more parasitic drain.  The second should be higher by a small amount.  Both should be over about 12.3v and may be about 12.7v.

Hehe, thanks Core, shows my memory was not playing tricks.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Moved from the Yaris GRMN forum. Similar topics merged.

[CruxisCore]

Do note though that usually right after opening the door and stepping on the brake pedal will dip the voltage considerably at first. But you will probably notice and learn the pattern pretty soon. 

The CaCa batteries might interact a little different and when you enter the car and press the brake you will almost certainly dip below 12v, but you dont necessarily need to be worried about that yet, as it's just under load with nothing coming in yet.

But in general if you are often seeing under 12v in scenarios other than the one above, you probably need to hook it up to a charger to avoid damage. These Ca batteries are notorious for two things, they take unusually high voltage to be charged to 100% and if you actually fully discharge the Battery 3-4 times, the battery's capacity loses drastically and it's pretty much good for nothing.

[Charliewatch]

The next day l rang the service department enquired if l could leave the car with him while l went shopping in town he said no its got to be charged overnight.

I am back in Wales now can the 12 volt Battery charger be clipped on to the Battery without anything having to disconnected on the hybrid system.

[Roy124]

4 minutes ago, Charliewatch said:

I am back in Wales now can the 12 volt battery charger be clipped on to the battery without anything having to disconnected on the hybrid system.

Yes.  Directly to the Battery +ve and -ve to the chasis or Battery.  If the Battery is not accessible, access the +ve terminal in the fuse box (it has a cover on it) and -ve to chasis.  No need to disconnect anything.  After connection then switch on the charger.

[Charliewatch]

49 minutes ago, Sooty said:

Hi David,

I am wondering which dealer you used.

I have had dealings with "techs" talking out of their rear ends and then spoke with the service manager explaining that I was a mechanic for 23 years in the Army. Since then if their are any issues I am asked to go into the workshop and see the issue myself.

Have a word with the service manager and ask him /her to explain why driving 120 miles plus is bad for the 12V battery. I bet that they can't explain it and will try BSing you.

If you don't get any joy then raise a complaint to the site manager and to Toyota head office (If it was a Toyota Dealership)

W.R.Davies Sooty

[Sooty]

David,

Thanks for the info. It was only for curiosity.

I use Pinkstones in Stoke.

Normally, in fact 99%, they are excellent.

[jthspace]

Added a 12v charging socket and voltage meter.  Meter has on/off switch so saves a few milliamps by having the display off!

Items sourced from eBay, Car Voltage Display, 12 volt accessory socket.

The "angle" of the Battery cover has nothing behind it, so was suitable for adding the bits.  Socket had ring connectors for the Battery, but the hole was too small so snipped a bit out and made them U shaped.  Fitted the Battery terminals perfectly.  Both leads protected by 5amp inline fuses.

My lithium battery booster came with a 12 accessory plug for boosting batteries where the cig lighter socket is "live" all the time.  Not usual on cars these days, but perfect for the use I'm intending.

30 minute job.

 

[Cyker]

Wow, neat job!

[Roy124]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

Wow, neat job!

Funny old thing, that's what I said a couple of days ago.

 

6 hours ago, jthspace said:

Added a 12v charging socket and voltage meter.  Meter has on/off switch so saves a few milliamps by having the display off!

.......

The "angle" of the battery cover has nothing behind it, so was suitable for adding the bits.  Socket had ring connectors for the battery, but the hole was too small so snipped a bit out and made them U shaped.  Fitted the battery terminals perfectly.  Both leads protected by 5amp inline fuses.

My lithium battery booster came with a 12 accessory plug for boosting batteries where the cig lighter socket is "live" all the time.  Not usual on cars these days, but perfect for the use I'm intending.

30 minute job.

 

Having a source fir the parts, why not 'assemble the kit', write out a set of instructions with photos,  and market the 'kit' at a 100% markup?

You could take a punt and assemble one or two kits which I am sure you could sell at cost plus if no takers.   If it takes off you could be on a winner.

[jthspace]

12v socket eBay

12v accessory socket £4.30

Voltmeter eBay

Voltmeter with switch £9.60

😂 Roy, but here it is for free!  It's taken almost as long to type this than do the fettling.

Instructions:

Take off the Battery cover.  Look on the reverse and drill a hole between the strengthening ribs.  I used a stepped drill.  About 2" along, on the same line, drill another hole.

Insert the voltmeter and tighten the fixing ring, making sure the meter stays aligned (straight).

Push the spade connections onto the back of the voltmeter (red to + and black to -).  Cut off the spades and bare the ends about 1cm of wire. Twist the wire.

Insert the accessory socket and, like the voltmeter, tighten the ring making sure the cover flap is straight, tab pointing down.

On the accessory socket rear, feed the red voltmeter wire through the hole in the positive terminal of the accessory socket.  Bring the wire up over the spade and whilst holding it, push the red wire spade terminal of the accessory socket on the spade, trapping the voltmeter wire, ensuring there are no bare wire showing.

Repeat for the negative, black, wire of the two items.

On the wires for the accessory socket, cut a bit out of the brass ring terminal making it U shaped instead of O

Remove the negative Battery terminal.  Keep it out of the way.  Loosen the + Battery nut a few turns and insert the red accessory socket terminal behind the washer.  Tighten the nut.  10mm spanner.

Reattach the negative terminal.  Insert the black accessory socket terminal behind the washer.  Tighten the nut.

Press the "on" button on the voltmeter and see the voltage.  Press again, see % charge.  Long press turns it off.

NOTE: Do not shorten wires, leave them long so that if you have to remove the battery cover again, there will be enough slack to allow it to be simply taken off and placed in the footwell.  

[Derek.w]

12 hours ago, Charliewatch said:

Hi there,l had my 2022 yaris serviced on Tuesday its first service.

When l picked it up the service bloke told me the 12 volt battery is Amber condition and needs charging.

I was astounded by this warning,he said its because my driving around town isn't good for the 12 volt battery,so l told him that l have been driving around Wales 120 miles a day,to which he said that's just as bad l cannot win.

What have l done wrong with my driving.

As part of the service I expect it to be returned fully charged!. NOT to imply take it home and recharge it yourself its a lot more polite as part of a service to say we recharged it and you need to keep a eye on it by giving it a charge once o month.

Amber condition I presume it refers to a load test and the time it takes for the Battery to recover.

If so then it was probably recharged afterwards but a lot of info lost in customer service department went its handed back to you.

[Roy124]

Jeff. I was suggesting the potential for an income stream.  Perhaps sell it to Toyota etc .