12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[Cyker]

It's fairly normal to have so many ECUs - They split off the functions instead of having one massive ECU that did anything to e.g. ease packaging, allow reuse across different platforms, improve repairability etc.

Most of them are unpowered when the car is off anyway.

The thing is, it should be fine under normal use unless you're one of the unlucky people who had a duff Battery to begin with (As they are just normal 12v starter batteries, once they drop below 50% charge they are irreparably damaged and, while they'll still work, will have lost significant capacity that they are unlikely to get back, even with a really good Battery conditioner).

I and many others haven't had a problem, but I use mine regularly for, not even necessarily long trips - Some of my trips are only a few miles, but as those few miles are crawling through traffic it takes a good chunk of time, and that time-on is what'll help keep the 12v batteries charged enough.

Still, it is disappointing that Toyota don't seem to have done anything to mitigate the problem - They've had these issues with 12v batteries in the past, again with the hybrid model being more prone to it. They're usually better than this at fixing known issues.

The main options for us to mitigate it are some combination of use the car more, fit a higher capacity Battery, use a trickle charger or carry a jump pack.

[RickyC]

23 hours ago, Dala said:

stationary parking 60 minutes

 

Except for two short peaks the DC-DC converter seems to just keep the voltage without charging the Battery. 

Obviously it could depend on the Battery state of charge.  Probably yours one is in good state.  Maybe in case the SOC is lower the 14V peak has a longer duration.    

[TonyHSD]

The number of ECU’s will definitely  affect  the Battery load but the biggest problem is when car is off and the stupid connected services, and in addition to that are all cameras or tracking device fitted as options in dealers. 
What Toyota should offer is an option that the owner can disable permanently these extras and not worry about if the car will start or not if left without use for a week. Also reading that agm batteries are better for hybrids, why some new models come without agm but with wet batteries? 
 

[Tommy X]

7 hours ago, MCatPG said:

 My final remark was that all the hybrid manufacturers should be fitting charging points and telling customers that they need to provide an external charge to maintain their 12V auxilary batteries in good condition, and he agreed with that. However it's never going to happen and so perhaps this thread will live on for many years into the future. 

Toyota do fit a charging point, it's located in the fusebox under the bonnet, my supplying dealer showed me how to connect a smart charger, no problems, I'll wait for the sarcastic comments 😉 

[Dala]

For WET batteries it is always written: not suitable for the START-STOP system.
I was looking for an AGM Battery for dimensions 175x175x190.
I only found one model.
Chinese Battery and only for the Russian market.

https://www.магазин-берёзка.рф/moscow/web-shop/shop?page=shop.product_details&flypage=garden_flypage.tpl&product_id=999&category_id=236

https://rdrive.pro/en/index.php

[Roy124]

I wonder:

A Toyota Hybrid just needs a fairly modest 12v supply to start the system as evidenced by the very small Li packs.

But we have a much larger Ca, Pb or AGM that is knackered if its charge drops below 50%.

A caravan with a 12v system does not have a problem with a deep cycle Battery.

Why can't hybrids use a deep cycle Battery.

[Cyker]

I have been wondering this for years!  

I thought they had started using them in their hybrids, but apparently no, still using normal starter batteries that are designed for short bursts of high energy output and don't like long low level drain. Heck, the Yaris Mk4 has even gone backwards, from the AGM Battery they started using, back to a bog standard flooded one!

At least they're relatively cheap to replace I suppose...

I do wonder if I could fit one of the deep-cycle AGM batteries we use in our UPS'...   (Could be tricky since they use completely different terminals and are the wrong shape and size  )

[Derek.w]

Cyker.

Yes I would like the answer to that one if you can just swap batterys or do the charger itself needs tobe told what type of Battery it is charging or will it just work it out for itself.

[Tommy X]

1 hour ago, Dala said:

For WET batteries it is always written: not suitable for the START-STOP system.
I was looking for an AGM battery for dimensions 175x175x190.
I only found one model.
Chinese battery and only for the Russian market.

https://www.магазин-берёзка.рф/moscow/web-shop/shop?page=shop.product_details&flypage=garden_flypage.tpl&product_id=999&category_id=236

https://rdrive.pro/en/index.php

The Yaris X doesn't use a conventional stop/start system,there is no starter motor and I wonder if it is wise to deviate from the type of Battery fitted as standard, just a thought.  

[TonyHSD]

I had a strange issue yesterday with my car. 
For some unknown to me reason the car has stopped recognising the key fobs, both of which had recently new batteries fitted. 
So what actually happened:  -  I had tried to unlock the passenger door but nothing happened, tried with the remote, again nothing.
Looked inside the red led was flashing normally which indicates the alarm is set and there is power. I tried the emergency key, the central locking worked, unlocked the car and set the alarm off. Tried to stop the alarm but the car didn’t respond at all and it was keep sounding loudly and shortly after it made these dying noises, then back to normal loud sounds again. I then jumped in and started the car all ok but then key not detected on dashboard message appeared. Left the car in ready mode for around 10 min, checked the 12v jump terminal under bonnet and showed 14.4v charging and after switched off 12.54v which means Battery is ok. Checked the key Battery showed 2.97v, hm here might be an issue. Putted a new one which measured at 3.2v but the car still didn’t recognised the both keys. They had stop workmanship so no keyless, no remote, kind of like these are not the right keys. Quick check online suggested reprogramming the keys. I did that on one of the fobs and then after both were back to normal.
Very strange, why the car decided that these aren’t her keys?! 
A bit of research about the 12v batteries in hybrids and conclusion is that AGM batteries showed be only fitted in Toyota hybrids and those had been a deep cycle batteries. Prices checked too best ones are Toyota dealer all in for £165. The idea is that if the car came out of factory with AGM the replacement Battery should  also be an AGM, same specs. 

[Dala]

This video at 18:28 shows a sheet metal for mounting a 12V car Battery. Wouldn't it be replaced with a larger metal holder ?
AGM car batteries can already be purchased for a larger size.

https://youtu.be/ZR1nsxCzwy0?t=1108

[Derek.w]

23 minutes ago, Tommy X said:

The Yaris X doesn't use a conventional stop/start system,there is no starter motor and I wonder if it is wise to deviate from the type of battery fitted as standard, just a thought.  

Just looked at the Yuasa YBX 5202 Battery its a wet Battery no mention of Not sutable for stop/start systems.

Then again NOT all stop start systems are the same IE beefed up starter motor on a petrol engine comperd to a HYBRID system where its only starting relays, computers, automatic handbrake and vacuum pump.

[Dala]

https://batteryworld.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/advantages-agm

[Derek.w]

18 minutes ago, Dala said:

This video at 18:28 shows a sheet metal for mounting a 12V car battery. Wouldn't it be replaced with a larger metal holder ?
AGM car batteries can already be purchased for a larger size.

https://youtu.be/ZR1nsxCzwy0?t=1108

I suspect you wont have room to fit a larger Battery (physical dimensions) as it will interfere with side leads & plugs for the HV Battery on top of that you are restricting its air space for cooling both batterys.

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, Derek.w said:

Cyker.

Yes I would like the answer to that one if you can just swap batterys or do the charger itself needs tobe told what type of battery it is charging or will it just work it out for itself.

As long as the cell chemistry is the same, i.e. lead and sulphuric acid and not some fancy calcium or silver etc. type, it should be fine in theory - I don't think starter-type vs deep-cycle type need different charging strategies. That said, wet cells are the most tolerant of wonky charge voltage while AGM and gel types really don't like being overvolted.

 

[Roy124]

Deep Cycle battery: my caravan Battery sat in its own plastic case with an integral charger.  At this remove I cannot remember if it was a 12v-12v or 240v-12v.  The point is it was not hit with high ampage recharging.

Toyota Hybrid: we had assumed Pb under the bonnet and AGM in the cab.  A CTEK 5 needs to have the Battery type selected. 

But - it seems the Yaris Cross has a Ca Battery and CTEK cannot advise which setting to use.

Confused of Little Snoring

[TonyHSD]

My Aldi smart charger recognising what Battery is connected to automatically but of course I can change settings to my preferences. 
Here interesting video about agm batteries. 

 

[Derek.w]

9 hours ago, Roy124 said:

Deep Cycle battery: my caravan battery sat in its own plastic case with an integral charger.  At this remove I cannot remember if it was a 12v-12v or 240v-12v.  The point is it was not hit with high ampage recharging.

Toyota Hybrid: we had assumed Pb under the bonnet and AGM in the cab.  A CTEK 5 needs to have the battery type selected. 

But - it seems the Yaris Cross has a Ca battery and CTEK cannot advise which setting to use.

Confused of Little Snoring

My CTEK is auto selecting used on WET, Ca/Ca,MF,GEL and AGM batterys.

The charger is type MXS 3.8 if you want to look it  up.

[IT Troll]

I've gotten into the habit of doing a monthly maintenance charge, via the engine bay. I've noticed that if I leave the bonnet fully open or slightly ajar, the instrument screen displays a warning picture. This seems to remain on permanently even when the car is switched off. Fair enough to display it for a brief period, or if I am trying to start the car, but to display it permanently seems a but dumb. To fully close the bonnet I have to carefully route the cable so that it won't get trapped.

[CruxisCore]

2 hours ago, IT Troll said:

I've gotten into the habit of doing a monthly maintenance charge, via the engine bay. I've noticed that if I leave the bonnet fully open or slightly ajar, the instrument screen displays a warning picture. This seems to remain on permanently even when the car is switched off. Fair enough to display it for a brief period, or if I am trying to start the car, but to display it permanently seems a but dumb. To fully close the bonnet I have to carefully route the cable so that it won't get trapped.

Damn, I was planning on doing similar, so that it's kinda latched but not actually locked just so there wont be risk of cable getting damaged or it somehow wedging it so tight that it wont open from the indoor lever anymore. Guess I just gotta do the cable routing thing as well then.

[anchorman]

On 8/22/2023 at 6:37 PM, CruxisCore said:

Damn, I was planning on doing similar, so that it's kinda latched but not actually locked just so there wont be risk of cable getting damaged or it somehow wedging it so tight that it wont open from the indoor lever anymore. Guess I just gotta do the cable routing thing as well then.

No you don’t.  The cable easily comes out by the headlight without getting trapped even slightly.  

[anchorman]

On 8/20/2023 at 9:48 PM, Derek.w said:

Just looked at the Yuasa YBX 5202 battery its a wet battery no mention of Not sutable for stop/start systems.

Then again NOT all stop start systems are the same IE beefed up starter motor on a petrol engine comperd to a HYBRID system where its only starting relays, computers, automatic handbrake and vacuum pump.

Exactly and I can confirm that I’ve completely cured one vehicle by fitting this Yuasa vehicle (I’ve fitted two but the second wasn’t giving problems, it was a precautionary measure requested by the owner).  

[Mint Tea]

Hi everyone,

I am completely new to car and gonna get my yaris hybrid mk3 (2018) next week, had a Nissan note before but never jump start it.

Little bit worry about car Battery issue after a long trip (2-3 weeks) after staying in airport.

Can someone show me a picture where should I put the black cable into if I jump start the car with the power bank which usually cable not long enough?

 

[glencrannog]

No expert, but looks like a bolt head an inch or two to the right hand side of the Fusebox, which would do.

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, Mint Tea said:

Hi everyone,

I am completely new to car and gonna get my yaris hybrid mk3 (2018) next week, had a Nissan note before but never jump start it.

Little bit worry about car battery issue after a long trip (2-3 weeks) after staying in airport.

Can someone show me a picture where should I put the black cable into if I jump start the car with the power bank which usually cable not long enough?

 

Here with the red arrow. Open this cover and you will see another small red cover says + on it or near . Lift up to connect the positive cable and the negative onto the shock absorber nut one of 3. Job done