12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[Max_Headroom]

2 hours ago, Rich L-T said:

Yaris Cross has just refused to start again having been left for 4 days in my garage. This is the 3rd time it has done this.

68 pages here - https://www.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/topic/197814-12v-battery-maintenance-issues-etc/?do=getLastComment

[Gray86]

Now it has gone flat, it will have lost some capacity. A CTEK MXS 5.0 charger will keep it conditioned, seeing as you have a garage, this may be an option? 
 

My dad leaves his CHR in airport car parks for 2 weeks over winter with no issues, as he tops up the 12v Battery with the charger beforehand. 

[Derek.w]

Just charged my 12 volt Battery today it was standing at 12.28volts so just below 50% so plenty of power to start car but batterys loose its ability to hold a charge below 12.20 volts so I dont let it drop into that area.

CTEC charger was showing 3 leds lights on out of 7 leds led 6 is fully charged/float mode. 

[Cyker]

Out of curiosity, what sort of overnight temperatures are you seeing?

[FROSTYBALLS]

Similar topics merged.

[jthspace]

19 hours ago, RickyC said:

I don't think is safe to stay in READY + DRIVE with HOLD selected for a long time. 

HOLD should be used for short stops ( eg. Road Light ) but not for long ones ( witing in the car or a train crossing ).

If I stay in HOLD too long (4 way temp traffic lights the other day) HOLD disengaged and the hand brake (what's it called now? Finger brake??) came on instead.

It was only a few weeks after I got the car that I realised that HOLD also kept the brake lights on, I thought I was using HOLD to avoid foot brake blindness to drivers behind me. I now flip the brake button.  

[Max_Headroom]

So is the recommended method - 

Put the car in READY mode in neutral PARK with the handbrake on?

[Stopeter44]

7 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

So is the recommended method - 

Put the car in READY mode in neutral with the handbrake on?

Not a good idea, the Neutral position is of no use in a hybrid, the hybrid system is disconnected. As for tail lights staying on, don't worry about it, only old farts (I'm including myself here) seem to worry about it.

[TonyHSD]

Ready mode in P only. Parking brake on for safety. Electronic accessories can be on or off this is not an issue, as long as the car is in P and ready mode the hybrid system will charge the 12 v Battery. 
 

[Max_Headroom]

26 minutes ago, Stopeter44 said:

Not a good idea, the Neutral position is of no use in a hybrid, the hybrid system is disconnected. As for tail lights staying on, don't worry about it, only old farts (I'm including myself here) seem to worry about it.

DOH i meant PARK not Neutral.

(original post edited)

Why do they have neutral if its of no use?

 

[hind]

You can use it to disconnect wheels from the gearbox and allows you to push/tow the car a little in case of a failure.

[Cyker]

Alas it doesn't do that - Even in N, all the gears and engine are still interconnected; There is no gearbox or clutch that can disengage the drivetrain from the wheels due to the way the HSD is designed.

The N mode is purely logical, i.e. the computer just cuts power to it and doesn't let it flow in or out of the various motors in order to 'fake' a mechanical Neutral.

It's kinda pointless, as unlike a real Neutral, it's still unsafe to tow a hybrid in N for anything but a short period of time, and if there was a computer malfunction the N could easily become not-N.

The subject of why it's even there pops up every now and then on here, and there was some debate about this back in the day on here; I suspected it was for legal reasons, i.e. countries requiring cars to have a Neutral to be homologated, even if it didn't actually do anything (A bit like that thing of how you have to carry spare bulbs in france, even if they're not for your car, to avoid getting fines from the gendarme  )

 

As an aside, the BRAKE HOLD and Electronic Parking Brake (EPB) are absolutely not the same thing:

The Brake Hold is basically a 'virtual foot', that holds down the brake pedal for you, and has all the same effects as if you were holding down the brake pedal (All 4 wheel brake calipers are engaged using hydraulic pressure, all 3 brake lights are lit).

The EPB is analogous to a handbrake (Only worse) and only brakes the rear wheels, with a pair of electric motor-driven screw clamps.

The car seems to have been programmed with the "If a Pause turns to a wait, use the handbrake!" rule, as it will automatically disengage the Brake Hold after a few minutes and engage the EPB - You will feel the whole car lurch when this happens, as the front wheels start pulling against the rear brakes. You can override this before it switches over by tapping the brake pedal, which will restart the timer, but it's probably best not to sit on the Brake Hold for hours  

I tend to use the Brake Hold for the above reason, as the car will stop wasting energy trying to drive against the brakes after a few moments, but on the EPB it will constantly send energy to MG2 to try and drive forwards. Also, the EPB is much slower than the Brake Hold to disengage, which slows down my 0-30 times at traffic lights, and that's no good is it??   

Personally, I think the best practice is to use Brake Hold for short stops, e.g. at the lights, and just put it in P for longer ones, with the EPB automatically engaging so the front and rear wheels are locked (Front by the P-mode parking pawl, and the rear from the EPB).

 

[MCatPG]

On 11/20/2023 at 3:36 PM, RickyC said:

Why are you sayng READY + DRIVE ?

I read somewhere that this is the correct setup for static charging of the 12Vbattery, but I don't know where. I think I was wrong about that. Can't edit the post.

There is a safety issue here so I put a bit of effort into trying to find the right answer.

The car's manual says nothing about this (I searched the electronic copy using several terms). Useless.

Toyota's article about maintenance during the godawful Lockdowns says use P.

The internal instruction document which Toyota issue to their dealers about PDI work for the Battery systems says use P.

[G L J]

Had my Battery changed at my local tyre depot yesterday due to the Battery losing charge and the car not starting after three days of not being used.

I have suspected it is not holding its charge properly for a long time but decided to change it before the really cold winter months.

Do not mind connecting booster pack to fuse box in summer but do not fancy doing it on a cold wet January morning at 6.30am.

The original Battery was tested and failed .

They have fitted a Varta Blue Dynamic rated at 44ah so hopefully all should be well now.

 

 

[Roy124]

Gwynfor, I know what you mean about the fuse box connection.  Where the Battery is inaccessible I got the garage to fit a charging tail to the Battery.

Note to self:

Think about a connection for the booster pack too as the fuse box could be inaccessible with the car in the garage.

[Derek.w]

Yaris Hybrid have two jump start connectots one under the bonnet in a fuse box.

Second one is bolted onto the Battery terminal post its just about half way down on the right red lump of plastic sorry its not a good picture.

[Roy124]

57 minutes ago, Derek.w said:

Second one is bolted onto the battery terminal post its just about half way down on the right red lump of plastic sorry its not a good picture.

Which is where you might secure a permanent charging tail.   It's not somewhere you would want to use in emergency. 

[Derek.w]

1 hour ago, Roy124 said:

Which is where you might secure a permanent charging tail.   It's not somewhere you would want to use in emergency. 

You can use it to start of a jump pack lets say space to work inside/under your bonnet is restricted but side door area is not.

[Gren]

2 hours ago, Roy124 said:

Which is where you might secure a permanent charging tail.   It's not somewhere you would want to use in emergency. 

Is that a feasible / easy connection point to fit a permanently-live cigarette lighter socket?  Maybe putting the socket on the plastic casing you'd remove to get at the Battery?  This would give you somewhere to plug in a trickle-charger or a solar panel charger.

Something like this? (pic from a well-known online auction site)

[jthspace]

On 11/7/2023 at 9:27 AM, Stobie said:

Next working day delivery if ordered before 4pm and a much better battery than the standard: 12V Car Battery, Type 002L, Yuasa YBX5202, 45Ah 440CCA Sealed Calcium | eBay

Ordered.  Amazon a couple of ££ cheaper, but didn't deliver to my area - go figure!  This in preparation of the car being parked up for 40 days/nights. I'll still have a booster pack in the car just in case though.

I've got a 12v solar panel which I use on the MX5 Mk1 as it is only driven occasionally (dry weather) but it also fits the 12v socket I fitted on the Yaris.

Solar Panel 12v - AMAZON

 

 

[Roy124]

17 hours ago, Gren said:

Is that a feasible / easy connection point to fit a permanently-live cigarette lighter socket?  Maybe putting the socket on the plastic casing you'd remove to get at the battery?  This would give you somewhere to plug in a trickle-charger or a solar panel charger.

Something like this? (pic from a well-known online auction site)

Ken, an excellent idea if you don't mind drilling the panel.  The only issue then is fitting the male connector to the booster and charger packs, though some already have a male plug.

[Derek.w]

Ken this is one of the connection point for jump starting a Yaris Hybrid.

You can now see the location for a Battery booster/jumpstarter as this is a picture with cover lifted up.

 

.

[Gren]

38 minutes ago, Derek.w said:

Ken this is one of the connection point for jump starting a Yaris Hybrid.

You can now see the location for a battery booster/jumpstarter as this is a picture with cover lifted up.

 

.

Thanks Derek & Roy, is there a positive terminal that's easily accessible?  I see your red wire going up to a crimp connector then a black one, is the black one attached to the Battery +ve terminal?

I've not had a chance to open up my Battery compartment so far, spent today swapping the winter tyres & wheels onto my other car.  Brrr, frost on top of the car by 4pm.

[Gren]

3 hours ago, Roy124 said:

Ken, an excellent idea if you don't mind drilling the panel.  The only issue then is fitting the male connector to the booster and charger packs, though some already have a male plug.

Thanks Roy, the male cigar lighter plug shouldn't be a problem - my solar charger already has one, and my charger is a Noco Genius and they sell an adaptor. 

[Roy124]

Ken, no idea,  I am too old to get up having been down at Battery level.