12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[Max_Headroom]

21 hours ago, hind said:

Feel free to install a suitable fuse in line 🙂 

I think i will pass, my little 12v socket meter tells me all i need to know 😉

 

[Chas G]

Not very scientific using a voltmeter under the bonnet and back of a !Removed! packet.

22 Toyota Yaris Cross I monitored my average weekly use of the car:-

Fully charged Battery 12.6 volts.

3 short journeys to town (6 miles/6 starts) = -0.18 volts

2 visits to Morrisons (32 miles/4 starts) = -0.1 volts

7 nights = -0.14 volts

Total/week = -0.42 volts

Time from full 12.6 volts to needing a charge at 11.76 volts is approx 2 weeks.

For me one hour in the garage in ready mode resolves any Battery issues and allows for the odd extra short journey. 

 

 

[Roy124]

56 minutes ago, Chas G said:

For me one hour in the garage in ready mode resolves any battery issues and allows for the odd extra short journey. 

Short journeys kill.  

It is increasingly obvious that the hybrid, in contrast with an ICE with alternator, is intolerant of short trips and time in Ready mode is critical. 

[Cyker]

Maybe we should organise a weekly TOC Tour to keep everyone's 12v Battery healthy, where we drive around the UK picking up TOC members in convoy, maybe loop past anch's house so he can fit Yuasa 12v batteries to everyones car without one, swing by flash22's so he can update everyone's ECU firmware, then a short hop to TonyHSD so we can try and figure out how the hell he makes his tyres last so long, then finally stop off at whichever Lindop Toyota PartsKing is at for a steak and ale pie dinner  

The only problem is we would need to average about 180mph to get round to everyone in time, and revive the Hoverspeed Seacat so we can get to Ireland and back quickly enough, so there may be parts of the plan that need further work...

 

[Chas G]

My monitoring has reassured me to some degree but I will almost certainly trade it in later this year for a none hybrid car. Shame after so long with Toyota - I want a car that does what I want it to do and not what some nerd has programmed into a computer.

@cyker yuasa Battery sounds like a bigger bucket with same hole in the bottom being filled by the same piddly hose that doesn't do the job. Simply get a bit longer before the water runs out.

[Mojo1010]

Haven't even had one fail start yet, talk about running from your own shadow. Don't think it was good for you to join this forum in the first place. Maybe get an Aygo, it's a Toyota unfortunately! 

[Cyker]

51 minutes ago, Chas G said:

@cyker yuasa battery sounds like a bigger bucket with same hole in the bottom being filled by the same piddly hose that doesn't do the job. Simply get a bit longer before the water runs out.

That's what I thought originally too, but it does seem like, aside from the higher capacity, the Yuasa ones also resist partial-charge degradation much better than the mewtwo (?) ones. I was joking they were the most basic low tech type of 12v Battery compared to the higher tech AGM used in previous models, but my joke may have more truth than I intended as some people have had 3 replacements of them with low use and they've all died very quickly, but when said people switched to the Yuasa Battery, but presumably kept the same drive cycle, I haven't seen them post about it since.

They have posted about other things, so I'm fairly confident the lack of followup is because the problem hasn't come up again, and not because they've perished in some fiery battery-related incident.  

So I'm thinking maybe the mewtwo really is a very basic lead acid Battery, while the Yuasa has more things in it to increase its longevity and resistance to degradation the OE one doesn't...?

I intend to change mine to a Yuasa too once the original goes, but mine doesn't show any sign of that happening any time soon (I do have a Noco GB20 at the ready in case I jinx myself tho'  )

 

[jthspace]

I changed to the Yuasa after getting the car after reading  the first 70 pages of this thread.  £70 was worth the peace of mind. Chas G - a £70 spend will be worth it, especially if you will take a financial hit changing the car, and if that's the only reason to want to change (being otherwise happy with the car). 

[Rhymes with Paris]

As I have previously admitted, I have no experience of hybrids.

But a vote for yuasa batteries here,in general.

I have had them in motorcycles and cars, and they seem to cure a lot of electrical problems.

Dunno what witchcraft they use, but maybe just quality control, and honesty.

I bought a heavy duty Battery blue star branded, and I mean heavy, I could hardly lift it,for my Anglia van in the 70s from the blue star garages as was then.

Despite looking after it, with regular Battery hydrometer checks, and voltage checks,it got ill a couple of years later, and passed on within it's three year warranty.

Of course, the warranty was useless to a young lad like I was at the time, with no experience of pinning bullcrapers to the wall.

 

 

[jthspace]

Lidl from 11 Jan. £45

Ultimate Speed Portable Jump Starter With Power Bank 

2-in-1: jump starter for cars as well as a powerful power bank

Direct start with a high current boost (500A / 12V) - no lengthy recharging

Protected against reverse polarity, short circuit and overload as well as being spark-proof

Modern Li-Ion technology and powerful LiFePO4 Battery

Increased efficiency - up to 90% usable Battery capacity (Compared to conventional Lithium-Ion cells with Lithium-Cobalt)(III)-Oxide (LiCoO2)

Particularly long lifespan with high cycle stability

Very low self-discharge

Capacity available in USB mode (1A / 2A outputs): 7000mAh

12V connection (max. 8A) compatible with other items (e.g. heated seat cushion)

Includes 12V adaptor, jump starter cable and 3 way USB charging cable for mobile phones and tablets with micro USB / mini USB / or USB-C connection

4 LEDs indicate charge status

Integrated LED torch with flashing function

In a convenient storage and transport bag

Jump starter suitable for petrol engines up to max. 3000cc and diesel engines up to max. 2000cc

Battery: Lithium-Ion 12V (12000mAh at 3.2V / 38.4Wh)

Integrated LED torch suitable for temperatures as low as -21°C

3-year warranty

 

[Roy124]

11 hours ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

Totally off thread: there was a Blue Star filling station on the A1.  It was exactly one mile from the runway at RAF Cottesmore.  Many the night with ***** visibility that Blue Star shone through the murk and we landed safely.

[Jasper.]

My original Battery has finally given up and was down to 8 volts this morning after being stood unused for a week.  Went on the Tayna batteries website looking for the Yuasa and it's showing as out of stock so I called to check and they're not expecting a delivery until the end of February  !

Now with the cold snap it looks like the majority of suppliers are out of stock.  Amazon appears to have stock and I also found that Halfords have the Yuasa HSB202 which appears to have the same spec as the YBX5202  ? Question is , do I go with the Halfords option or go with Amazon ? Another alternative is the Varta but the spec is not quite as good as the Yuasa.

Edited January 6 by Jasper.
Mistake.

[Roy124]

Jasper,  go by price or convenience. 

[Jasper.]

So I decided to go with the Yuasa option from Halfords  , £74 with a trade card...

Not the cheapest but stocks seem to be running down. 

[Cyker]

For piece of mind, the Yuasa YBX5202 is a HSB202 - I don't know why it has two names, but it is the same Battery!

I will say the Halfords price isn't too bad if you use a discount card, given you get it immediately and don't have to pay shipping!

The one upside of the low-tech nature of the 12v Battery in the Mk4 is they are comparatively cheap to replace - The EFB-type Battery specced for my old Mk2 because of its stop-start system was 1.5x-2x the price!  

 

[Jasper.]

Thanks Cyker , i appreciate the feedback ..👍

[RickyC]

17 hours ago, jthspace said:

Lidl from 11 Jan. £45

Ultimate Speed Portable Jump Starter With Power Bank 

2-in-1: jump starter for cars as well as a powerful power bank

Direct start with a high current boost (500A / 12V) - no lengthy recharging

Protected against reverse polarity, short circuit and overload as well as being spark-proof

Modern Li-Ion technology and powerful LiFePO4 battery

Increased efficiency - up to 90% usable battery capacity (Compared to conventional Lithium-Ion cells with Lithium-Cobalt)(III)-Oxide (LiCoO2)

Particularly long lifespan with high cycle stability

Very low self-discharge

Capacity available in USB mode (1A / 2A outputs): 7000mAh

12V connection (max. 8A) compatible with other items (e.g. heated seat cushion)

Includes 12V adaptor, jump starter cable and 3 way USB charging cable for mobile phones and tablets with micro USB / mini USB / or USB-C connection

4 LEDs indicate charge status

Integrated LED torch with flashing function

In a convenient storage and transport bag

Jump starter suitable for petrol engines up to max. 3000cc and diesel engines up to max. 2000cc

Battery: Lithium-Ion 12V (12000mAh at 3.2V / 38.4Wh)

Integrated LED torch suitable for temperatures as low as -21°C

3-year warranty

 

I've similar one ( Lidl ) but it integrates also a tyre compressor. 

I've used only one time as booster to start my previous car. 

Luckily I'd never had the need to test it ad booster on my Yaris, but I've used it to check my tyre pressure.  I've seen that the value indicated on its display is the same one read by TPMS sensors.   

 

[Derek.w]

You can use for Mk4 Yaris

Yuasa HSB202 Part no YBX5202  45AH cca 440 amps

Varta blue dynamic   544 401 042 or B36 44AH 440 amps

Or if you prefer there is also Bosch Battery!. I have to look up the number for this one.

[skidlid]

Not got the Yaris yet (due in March) but intend to use the Battery conditioner we have especially in winter. We bought the conditioner early in lockdown at the suggestion of our Skoda dealer, they wanted over £40 for one, bought an identical one on Amazon for just over £20 delivered. I have a "smart" charger I bought in 80's (which has worked fine on all older Battery types including Gel) but the conditioner is clearly way cleverer at charging. Use it on 2 cars and the Battery on the Skoda is now almost 6 years old (original battery) and the battery on the other car (a Yuasa 5000 type) is almost 7 years old. That car only gets used about 7 months of the year so 7 years (probably the longest a battery has lasted in the 31 years we have had the car) is quite a result and I would like to think that the conditioner has helped (together with the quality of Yuasa)

So in preparation I have downloaded the handbook but that only seems to cover in detail using jump leads which I hope to avoid. Plugging the charger direct to the battery is out, with the car (any car) in the garage its impossible to get the doors open far enough to gain much access and I don't really want to start adding plugs onto the battery in a new car (dealers can get uppity when you modify cars).

So I was wondering, can you use the points identified under the bonnet for jump starting to charge the battery? In the Fabia the battery is under the bonnet and all you do is connect the +ve to the battery and the -ve to the dedicated charging point (its simply an earth bolted to the inner wing) and leave it doing its stuff until the charger says "FUL" (not a spelling on my part, obviously the manufacturer cannot spell). Its no good doing that if the supplied +ve connection is "off" when the car is not running.

Hope that's all clear.

 

[Roy124]

Paul,

Under bonnet points are fine, provided you can open the driver's door to pop the bonnet.

I get the garage to fit a charging tail to the Battery before delivery. I then connect the charger using a long extension. 

If access is really tight you could fit the extension lead before you put the car in the garage and connect to charger once garaged.

[skidlid]

7 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Paul,

Under bonnet points are fine, provided you can open the driver's door to pop the bonnet.

I get the garage to fit a charging tail to the battery before delivery. I then connect the charger using a long extension. 

If access is really tight you could fit the extension lead before you put the car in the garage and connect to charger once garaged.

Bonnet no issue and drivers door is easier than having to open the passenger door on the Fabia. I was just a bit concerned that you would need the ignition on to make the under bonnet point live but if its permanent it will simply be a repeat of what we are already doing.

[hind]

46 minutes ago, skidlid said:

 I was just a bit concerned that you would need the ignition on to make the under bonnet point live but if its permanent it will simply be a repeat of what we are already doing.

That would not make sense as you wouldn't be able to jump start it then 🙂

[skidlid]

1 hour ago, hind said:

That would not make sense as you wouldn't be able to jump start it then 🙂

WTF. I appreciate you need to turn the key to jump start it, pretty obvious. All I want to know is is the pin in the fuse box permanently live to allow charging? Similar in my Superb is but never needed to use it.

[hind]

Not always as you can have just a button, which sets the ignition state in the computer. No power = no work 🙂

But even if you have a key, it operates the switch which (in short words) switches the power to the relay which needs current too 🙂

So either way you need at least some volts ready which would make it impossible to "rise from death" very discharged Battery. That's why this pin/contact is permanently connected to the Battery. And you can charge it through it. Source: I've done that myself 🙂

Sorry for the need to explain the technical details but I'd rather know why I have to do something instead of hearing "just do it" so I try to do the same thing for others. 

[skidlid]

2 hours ago, hind said:

That's why this pin/contact is permanently connected to the battery. And you can charge it through it. Source: I've done that myself 🙂

Thanks. That is all I needed to know. The alternative of connecting to the Battery under the seat would be very difficult since the garage is not that wide.

So its +ve to the pin/contact and -ve to the alternator bracket (think that is hat is shown for jump starting)?