12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[hind]

2 hours ago, haelewyn said:

Used to be batteries that toyota installed OEM. 

They still do for Y4/YC, just not on the European market 

[Tommy X]

8 hours ago, Mojo1010 said:

 

Btw most of us put petrol in the rear end and it comes out at the same end, what car do u drive? 🙂

Mojo, you have misquoted my post, "I put petrol in at one end (the rear) and use it at the other (the front)" I don't get hung up about MPG figures, much the same with the 12V Battery, I give it an occasional charge but not constantly monitoring it's voltage      

[Fred123]

Hello!

For the first time since i bought a used Yaris Hybrid i have also gotten some problems with the Battery, after lending the car to a friend who managed to put the compartment lights on for a day, but anyway.

The car is from 2015, as far as I know the Battery hasn't been replaced before. Is it any point trying to charge it, or should i just replace it since i'm going to disconnect it? 

I found some batteries that I can buy nearbuy, it has a CCA rating of 240, and as far as I know, the one in the car is higher. Does it matter? I'm going to call the local toyota parts dealership to find out if they have the exact same batteries that comes with the car anyways. 

Replacement is easy? No stupid warning codes if I replace it myself?

240 

[Mojo1010]

Charged it up/drive a lot/ready mode for a few hours a week. It may be ok after that, if not get a higher capacity Battery like 45Ah. Hybrid doesn't need a high CCA. 

No warning code for replacement, it's under the rear seats. 

[haelewyn]

It's especially the yaris CROSS that is suffering from bad batteries if I am not mistaken. Not your yaris 2015.

A Battery from 2015 that starts to struggle a bit in 2024 still fits in the category : very well done.

[Chas G]

I asked if main dealer would fit a larger capacity Battery to my Yaris Cross. Not willing to fit anything non standard except some fly leads which they are going to do next week so I can charge up at my leisure......as long as my leisure is at least once a week. Roll on September 😃

[Roy124]

23 hours ago, haelewyn said:

It's especially the yaris CROSS that is suffering from bad batteries if I am not mistaken 

Not with mine.   I am averaging 1 000 per month but it has been parked up at a friend's home for 16 days, an aurport for 14 and at a cruise car park for 14.  No issues. 

[Roy124]

On 1/30/2024 at 11:20 AM, Mojo1010 said:

Yeah 12v stuff can be useful info due to the perhaps not so good quality of the Mutlu, but it's not for an essay or dissertation.

Using a Battery monitor and noting the charge/discharge process is both fascinating and helpful in understanding the system.   If someone is disinterested they can ignore what's written, there is no exam.

 

[Cyker]

On 1/31/2024 at 6:30 PM, Fred123 said:

Hello!

For the first time since i bought a used Yaris Hybrid i have also gotten some problems with the battery, after lending the car to a friend who managed to put the compartment lights on for a day, but anyway.

The car is from 2015, as far as I know the battery hasn't been replaced before. Is it any point trying to charge it, or should i just replace it since i'm going to disconnect it? 

I found some batteries that I can buy nearbuy, it has a CCA rating of 240, and as far as I know, the one in the car is higher. Does it matter? I'm going to call the local toyota parts dealership to find out if they have the exact same batteries that comes with the car anyways. 

Replacement is easy? No stupid warning codes if I replace it myself?

240 

Replacement is easy - It's not a BMW so you don't need some special code programmer to replace the Battery  

Just make sure it's the right size and the terminals are the right way round and you should be fine.

 

On 1/31/2024 at 7:08 PM, haelewyn said:

It's especially the yaris CROSS that is suffering from bad batteries if I am not mistaken. Not your yaris 2015.

A battery from 2015 that starts to struggle a bit in 2024 still fits in the category : very well done.

It's all the new M15A-FXE based Yaris models, so the YarisX and the Yaris Mk4, that potentially have duff 12v batteries; I'm strongly leaning it to just being a low quality Battery (I'd never even heard of Mutlu before!), that once it is drained once suffers significant degradation thereafter.

I don't think I've heard of anyone who swapped in a Yuasa having a problem under the same conditions, and the Yuasa's capacity isn't that much higher that that on its own would solve the problem, so I think it's the Yuasa's better build quality and resistance to degradation that's helping...

 

[Max_Headroom]

Quote

Just make sure it's the right size and the terminals are the right way round and you should be fine

Remember to remove and replace the terminals in the correct order or you may have problems. 

 

 

[Yarisjo]

I bought a Toyota Yaris hybrid (70 reg) in May 2022.  In Mar 2023 my 12v Battery died and Toyota replaced it. They also supplied me with a solar panel which fits into the OBD socket below the steering wheel to charge the Battery when not in use.   Despite using this my Battery died again recently in Jan 2024. Presumably due to lack of sunlight recently. 
   I am not confident with cars and worry at handling the battery directly from a safety perspective. Does anyone know of any products which 

a) check the amount of charge left in the battery using the OBD socket

or

b) to use a battery to re charge the 12 v battery connecting via OBD port I.e. similar to  emergency charge for mobile phones etc.

These cars are being recommended by Which etc as best buys for reliability etc. also for elderly people (like myself) which seems odd given this problem.

[Fred123]

Thanks for fast and good replies!

21 hours ago, Cyker said:

Replacement is easy - It's not a BMW so you don't need some special code programmer to replace the battery  

Good to know, I'm so very not interested in cars and maintenance, and who knows with "newer" cars (My Yaris Verso '03, I really miss you). Glad to hear Toyota still keeps it simple. Only owned Toyota's due to it's reliability and simplicity. It's actually quite amazing how far they manage to go with close to zero maintenance.

[Countryside]

4 hours ago, Yarisjo said:

I bought a Toyota Yaris hybrid (70 reg) in May 2022.  In Mar 2023 my 12v battery died and Toyota replaced it. They also supplied me with a solar panel which fits into the OBD socket below the steering wheel to charge the battery when not in use.   Despite using this my battery died again recently in Jan 2024. Presumably due to lack of sunlight recently. 
   I am not confident with cars and worry at handling the battery directly from a safety perspective. Does anyone know of any products which 

a) check the amount of charge left in the battery using the OBD socket

or

b) to use a battery to re charge the 12 v battery connecting via OBD port I.e. similar to  emergency charge for mobile phones etc.

These cars are being recommended by Which etc as best buys for reliability etc. also for elderly people (like myself) which seems odd given this problem.

It does seem odd reading these Battery problems has really put me off having a brand new Yaris cross on motability 

[Chas G]

36 minutes ago, Countryside said:

It does seem odd reading these battery problems has really put me off having a brand new Yaris cross on motability 

I wish I hadn't bought my 22 Yaris Cross. I have enough problems as it is without having to worry about charging my Battery.

I bet I wouldn't have any problems with a Skoda Kamiq/Karoq doing 2500-3000 miles a year. Friend who lives opposite has a Karoq and pretty similar journeys as me every week.

I also don't like the complication of the hybrid system. Why did I buy it I hear you ask? To be honest I don't know why. It just seemed a good idea at the time and I wasn't aware of the 12 volt Battery issue.

For people doing higher mileage/use every week I have no doubt the toyota hybrids are a very good car.

[Chas G]

Battery at 12.3 volts at 4pm so I put it on the Ctek 5 and it took 3 hours to get all 7 lights on showing fully charged. Having been to Watford 9 miles each way. Took 40 minutes to get back because of road works.

I don't believe that sitting in ready mode for an hour, as advised by toyboata, would have fully charged the Battery.

[Max_Headroom]

44 minutes ago, Chas G said:

I don't believe that sitting in ready mode for an hour, as advised by toyboata, would have fully charged the battery.

It would appear some owners are never going to get along with the hybrid, it doesn't need to be fully charged it only needs to be charged enough to start the car the next time you use it, if you had an EV and got home with half a Battery of charge left and you only planned to do a 10 mile round trip to the shops the next day and another 10 miles to work and back  the day after would you put it on charge to make sure it was 100% charged the answer is no there is no need the same applies to the hybrid if you are going to drive it a few times a week it'll be fine if you are going to drive it 20 miles a week on two separate days you are going to run into problems the same problem you would run into if you did the same mileage in an ICE, the ICE Battery will eventually go flat it you dont replace the power used to start it.

[Mojo1010]

Would agree ready mode for an hour a week is not enough to be fully charged,  though it may be enough to start the car. There are plenty of advice to change it to a Yuasa 45ah then see what happens. 

Hybrid maybe isn't for everyone who doesn't use very often, better off on a non hybrid which is cheaper. Hybrid works for me as it gets used often enough.

One of my journey today achieved below, engine was already upto temp from driving on a previous trip. 

[Chas G]

13 minutes ago, Max_Headroom said:

It would appear some owners are never going to get along with the hybrid, it doesn't need to be fully charged it only needs to be charged enough to start the car the next time you use it, if you had an EV and got home with half a battery of charge left and you only planned to do a 10 mile round trip to the shops the next day and another 10 miles to work and back  the day after would you put it on charge to make sure it was 100% charged the answer is no there is no need the same applies to the hybrid if you are going to drive it a few times a week it'll be fine if you are going to drive it 20 miles a week on two separate days you are going to run into problems the same problem you would run into if you did the same mileage in an ICE, the ICE battery will eventually go flat it you dont replace the power used to start it.

So why do start/stop petrol engined cars not have a problem?

Seems to me their charging system works and refills the Battery in minutes rather than the dubious hybrid flogged by toyota.

The traction Battery should be charging the 12 volt Battery like an alternator instead of waiting until it drops below a level from which it takes too long to recover to full charge.

[Graham47]

1 hour ago, Chas G said:

waiting until it drops below a level from which it takes too long to recover to full charge.

Because, as has already been explained, the Battery doesn’t need to be maintained at full charge (no engine to crank, esp. in cold weather) but at a level that’s sufficient to activate the computers.. a much lower voltage.  12.3v (in your case) would be more than sufficient for that.

No idea why you felt the need to charge the Battery.

[Chas G]

35 minutes ago, Graham47 said:

Because, as has already been explained, the battery doesn’t need to be maintained at full charge (no engine to crank, esp. in cold weather) but at a level that’s sufficient to activate the computers.. a much lower voltage.  12.3v (in your case) would be more than sufficient for that.

No idea why you felt the need to charge the battery.

I charged  the Battery because the voltage just steadily goes down after every journey.

Do I just wait until it wont start or hope that Dog will intervene and get the charging system to actually do something useful.

The only time I have seen the voltage actually go up is when I drove back from reading 40 miles away which took longer than an hour.

[Dala]

I think the problem is when it drops below 12.0V.
This low voltage will damage the Battery so much that it will never hold its capacity.

If I drive for a long time every day - there will be no problem - 11.7V is enough to start the system (I tested this voltage before unlocking the car).

 

I regularly ride 300-500km/week
In the summer, I charge with a solar panel when I park for more than 1 day.
In winter, I use CTEK twice a month.
After 3.5 years, today I measured these values:

 

I think it's time for a new car Battery.

[anchorman]

9 hours ago, Dala said:

I think the problem is when it drops below 12.0V.
This low voltage will damage the battery so much that it will never hold its capacity.

If I drive for a long time every day - there will be no problem - 11.7V is enough to start the system (I tested this voltage before unlocking the car).

 

I regularly ride 300-500km/week
In the summer, I charge with a solar panel when I park for more than 1 day.
In winter, I use CTEK twice a month.
After 3.5 years, today I measured these values:

 

I think it's time for a new car battery.

Frankly, if I had to chuff about with meters and gauges analysing data like this I’d sell the lot and walk.  I’ve never measured anything on any car including numerous hybrids and I’ve never had one fail to start.  If I go away for a month I put it on a CTEK but if something made it awkward to do so I would not lose one iota of sleep.  For those under the impression that it doesn’t apply to conventional systems, wrong, it does.  Comments like that or comments that fuel related issues don’t exist come from people that have never routinely worked on cars.  You can make yourself in any second hand car dealer with all the wires trailing about to Battery boosters and chargers.  

[Roy124]

46 minutes ago, anchorman said:

Frankly, if I had to chuff about with meters and gauges analysing data like this I’d sell the lot and walk.

Thinking back in time, in the 60s there was a regular market for additional instrumentation such as oil pressure gauges, ammeters and volt meters.  Also additional panels to hold these and additional switches for fog and spotlights. 

Cars ran perfectly well without these bells, whistles,  or even screen washers or radios, yet many fitted them.

As a child I am sure I was not alone in destroying a clockwork toy to find how it worked. 

[anchorman]

34 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Thinking back in time, in the 60s there was a regular market for additional instrumentation such as oil pressure gauges, ammeters and volt meters.  Also additional panels to hold these and additional switches for fog and spotlights. 

Cars ran perfectly well without these bells, whistles,  or even screen washers or radios, yet many fitted them.

As a child I am sure I was not alone in destroying a clockwork toy to find how it worked. 

I still pull things apart to see how they work and I’ll add practical things like a rear interior light but the car has got an array of displays to advise about Battery condition.  Each to their own I suppose.  

[Roy124]

23 minutes ago, anchorman said:

array of displays to advise about battery condition.

Like Blackpool illuminations when the voltage drops?

What are these arrays as I seem unable to find them?