12v battery maintenance, issues, etc.

[Max_Headroom]

33 minutes ago, Graham47 said:

Do WE ? Or do you mean “I DO” !

You certainly cannot say with any certainty.

Moderator edit i have edited my earlier post to say - 

Quote

now i might be putting 2 + 2 together and coming up with 6 but i think most of us will assume its the same problem all the members who have posted here are also having why else would they offer an "enhanced battery" option along  with a gagging order? 

 

[Derek.w]

My results for 6 days under solar charging and doing a few short trips now & then.

Solar panel 30 watts using MPPT solar panel controller apart from first day all the rest are cloudy raining days with some fog.

[anchorman]

17 hours ago, Parts-King said:

The trouble with forums is that you would think this affects every car, I can tell you it doesn't, it mainly affects people doing very low mileage. I have a lady who comes in every single day to see us, then she goes to a garden centre locally and then home, probably does 10 mile a day at most. She has never had an issue, we have very many more customers like that. The issue is being addressed by Toyota, it maybe addressed by a service campaign, it won't be by recall as it is not a safety issue. I don't have any other specific information on the current situation

Also that it only effects Toyota because it doesn’t, it effects many other brands with a proper hybrid set up.   

16 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

If there was no problem for customers who rarely drive leaving the car for a few days at a time there wouldn't be a 95 page thread about it here!

Halfords also wouldn't have sold so many  booster packs, smart trickle chargers and solar charging panels.

How do you know who buys trickle chargers from Halfords?   You’re not really suggesting it’s only Toyota hybrid owners are you?  

16 hours ago, Max_Headroom said:

Only if you dont actually read the threads!

 

The guy in the FB post was one of the ones who like many in this 95 page thread doesn't drive often enough to keep the 12v battery topped up obviously if you drive regularly the battery will be charged so you will have no issue.

We know what the potential for problems are and the notion that Toyota are doing nothing about it is only down to ignorance of how these things work.  It was my job to do exactly that in days gone by (albeit in friction materials) and they will sit and read out exactly what the dealerships are feeding back and what they are doing about it.  It might mean bringing in a second supplier and it might mean getting the current supplier to sort their act out (quality or specifications).  The Battery on these cars might look the same but they might not be the same but only Toyota and Mutlu will know that.   The point is with that fb post is that we don’t know what has gone on between the dealer and the owner.  You generally reap what you sow and they could have been given a perfectly reasonable offer.  We don’t know the condition of the car or what the owner considers fair.  Some will expect a full refund after putting miles on and treating it like trash.  There’s alway entitled luvvies that will follow on fb.  They love some drama and love to be appalled and a lot of them don’t even own one of these vehicles.  

[Countryside]

Well said Don I think max should understand this 

[Chas G]

@anchorman

"It might mean getting the current supplier to sort their act out (quality or specifications)" 🤔

Couldn't agree more with that sentence in your post. More current is definitely what we need. 😁

 

 

 

 

[Auris Geezer]

Just wondering, my Auris had an AGM Battery "because it was in the passenger space in case of an accident it leaked", right hand side of the boot.  The YC however is a lead acid under the rear seat, also in the passenger space. Why doesn't it have an AGM also?  Thanks

[anchorman]

3 hours ago, Auris Geezer said:

Just wondering, my Auris had an AGM battery "because it was in the passenger space in case of an accident it leaked", right hand side of the boot.  The YC however is a lead acid under the rear seat, also in the passenger space. Why doesn't it have an AGM also?  Thanks

They usually have AGM if there’s a stop start system.  We had this discussion a while back where someone didn’t like the thought of acid dripping on his kids but the Battery leaking would be the least of my worries if the car was upside down with the kids in.  I’d have to roll a Battery over and check if it leaks.  

[Cyker]

3 hours ago, Auris Geezer said:

Just wondering, my Auris had an AGM battery "because it was in the passenger space in case of an accident it leaked", right hand side of the boot.  The YC however is a lead acid under the rear seat, also in the passenger space. Why doesn't it have an AGM also?  Thanks

At the time we assumed they used AGM because putting the 12v *inside* the car was a new thing for Toyota (Or at least I'd never heard of them doing it before) and either it was a legal requirement or they were just erring on the side of caution, as AGM lead acid batteries don't have any free-liquid acid in it to leak anywhere which is logically safer, and as a bonus they work in any orientation, even upside down. I'm not sure if they ever officially stated safety was their reasoning for it though.

A decade or so later, I assume they've decided that having a normal wet Battery is safe enough, since even my Yaris Mk4 comes with a Battery even lower tech than I had in my Mk2 Yaris - My Mk2 at least had an EFB, but the one in my Mk4 isn't even that  

The batteries are sealed at least, so shouldn't leak even if upside down, although I suspect that would kill them pretty quickly.

One big advantage is the olde worlde Battery in my Yaris is *much* cheaper than an AGM one would be, although I do wish they'd gone with deep-cycle batteries instead of regular car starter batteries, but that's a whole 'nother subject  

[Logantoo]

Toyota Yaris Hybrid - registered 01.04.22

This is the second Yaris Hybrid that I have owned and for the first time ever I had to call the emergency breakdown service out and they quickly diagnosed a flat Battery and had me going again in no time. However, this has caused me some concern, and my wife in particular in case it should happen again. The situation has not been improved by reading the various threads but as I am not mechanically minded I would appreciate some assurance.

I bought a smart trickle charger from Halfords together with a volt reader/accessory charger that fits in the cigarette lighter socket.

Having seen my volt reader registering 11.9 while at rest (key position 1) I put my Battery on charge overnight and in the morning it recorded that the Battery was fully charged and I got the following readings from the volt meter:

Key on in position 1 with front windscreen cam and iPhone unconnected - 12.1 - 12.4

Key on in position 2 with engine running - 13.9

Actual driving, lowest reading 12.7

After approximately 50 mile trip with one stop of 1.5 hours (I loaded and unloaded my mobility scooter using  hoist twice both times with the engine running as recommended by the Toyota dealer following call out above)

Key on in position 1 with no accessories attached - 12.1 - 12.2

Key on in position 2 13.9 - 14.1

I realise the above is a bit long winded and I am sorry but thought it best to explain as best I could.

My question is, is my battery ok?

Many thanks.

 

[Mooly]

It is not really possible to say based on voltage measurement alone. I can say that 13.9v to 14.1v when running and with a low of 12.7v sounds normal. The lower reading is when the system thinks the Battery is fully charged and so it drops the voltage down to 12.7v. That maintains the charge level but adds nothing to the Battery and is done in the name of efficiency as much as anything else.

11.9v is getting a bit on the low side (but is actually about what I see on a conventional ICE car with an old Battery and one that gives no concerns over starting).

What none of these readings tell you is what the capacity is like and how well it holds up under load.

I don't know what electrical consumers you can turn on with a Hybrid without it being in ready mode and the engine starting but flashing and holding the headlights on (assuming they are conventional and not LED) would be a good start to see if the voltage holds up. 

[Logantoo]

Many thanks for your advice, I continue to learn about batteries which is obviously a good thing. Thanks again 

[ronnie 1]

Hi, I am bed ridden with lung problems so what i am saying is from my wife`s use of the car. It is a 2017 hybrid bought in November 2023. It has a normal key start and the radio has no smart screen. I hope this makes sense. It has been sitting in the garage now for 2 weeks, so i sent Freda out to see if it would go to ready mode and it did. I have no idea what Battery is in it, but would imagine it has been replaced since it left the factory. Odometer  is  showing about 34000 mls. I must admit, after reading the 90 odd pages in this thread i was very surprised with the result. It just shows you can take nothing for granted. At least it saved me trying to explain to Freda how to connect the c tek charger which i have had for many years, i would imagine that would have been a nightmare. !!!!!!!!

[Roy124]

Ian, Ronnie, it all depends.  What we do know is that a Battery that has gone flat and subsequently required a call-out or a jump start/recharge has suffered damage. 

That damage might be minor or it might be significant if it happened more than once and was in a discharged state for some time.

Ronnie my be right and his car has already had a replacement Battery,  on the other hand maybe not.

Your problem is you do not know your battery's previous history and your dealer may not either.  My Corolla had it's Battery changed but there was nothing in the Service log. 

In your case Ian, use your charger.  Such a modern smart charger can be left connected as long as you like and will do much to regenerate your battery if need be.

[Derek.w]

I have not needed to use a mains charger on my car in over 15 days by just using solar power as a additional Battery charge.

[CPN]

7 hours ago, Derek.w said:

I have not needed to use a mains charger on my car in over 15 days by just using solar power as a additional battery charge.

I found I could also do that with the two Mk3s that I previously had when we had a south-facing driveway.

[Derek.w]

On 4/15/2024 at 5:03 AM, CPN said:

I found I could also do that with the two Mk3s that I previously had when we had a south-facing driveway.

My car is facing West so if I am lucky it start to charge from about 10:30 the clouds play a big part in this because if its exra dark then output is reduced.

To help overcome low output from solar panels I am using two 30 watt units.

[hind]

Imagine solar panel instead of the pano roof 😉 should be able to charge both HV and 12v batteries 🙂

[Roy124]

Had a 12v alarm a couple of days ago when it flagged up a voltage on my 17 month old YC of just under 12v.  However this appeared to be a transient.  Nevertheless I gave it a long charging session and after a settling period it stabilized as 12.75v on the 4th.

On the 16th it was 12.56v with my car being driven normally every couple of days and 5 hrs on the 15th.  This morning, the 18th, the voltage had dropped to 12.36v.  Quite a drop in 2 days.

The car had been driven for 42 min on the 16th and 3 hr on the 17th.  The drop in voltage shows as a linear decline not withstanding the peaks on the 16th  with2 cycles and 17th with 3 cycles.

I shall certainly be watching it over the next week.  In June we are away for 15 days so best I ensure my jumper pack is charged.

[Countryside]

My goodness Roy it would drive me mad ! I pick up my new CHR Monday morning 

[Roy124]

33 minutes ago, Countryside said:

My goodness Roy it would drive me mad ! I pick up my new CHR Monday morning 

Probably best, ignorance etc

[Countryside]

I wasn’t being ignorant I was just saying looking at the voltage all the time would drive me mad we are all different 

[Jenny_L]

To add my ha'pence worth:  I bought a 71 plate Yaris cross last June.  Had no problems with the 12V Battery, despite only driving 400-500 miles per month... until I had an operation in March and couldn't drive for 5 weeks.  I went into Jemca Reading before my op and specifically asked, do I need to do anything to maintain the car for the next few weeks, eg. get someone to drive it once a week etc?  I was advised, just turn it on at least once a week and let the engine run as long as it wants, to top up the hybrid Battery.  Nothing was said about the 12V Battery being so naff that it would go flat within 2-3 weeks.  Which it did.  Toyota Assist (AA) jump-started it and advised me to leave the car in 'Ready' mode for at least 2 hours (!) and then similarly for 30-60 minutes every other day, given I still couldn't drive it.  This indeed charged the battery enough to keep it functional: the AA man demonstrated how the hybrid battery was trickle-charging the 12V battery, and periodically the engine fired up for a few minutes to recharge the hybrid battery.  Big downside, of course, is that either I sat in the car for 30-60 mins (or 2 hours on the day the AA came) or trusted that no-one would nick the car, as it needed the key in it to stay in 'Ready' mode and it refused to be locked with the spare key while a key was still inside but with no-one sitting in there too! 🙄 (too flippin' clever for its own good).

The AA man said the battery was probably defunct, if it went flat in 3 weeks.  I phoned Toyota to ask for a battery replacement, and was offered next day... but when I mentioned "under warranty", the man on the phone quickly changed his tune and said this would need booking in for a battery check first, which they couldn't do for 2 weeks!  The 'next day' job would have been a non-warranty replacement at a cost of about £150 to me.  Not impressed at Toyota's transparency (ie. utter lack thereof).

I drove it (yay!! 😁) to Jemca Reading yesterday.  They did the battery check - their machine told them to charge it overnight.  This morning the conclusion was that it's absolutely fine and just needed charging properly.  Guess what?  I was told that I don't drive it enough blah blah blah - same weary excuse clearly being trotted out to everyone; but this wasn't my problem, it was due to the car being unused for 2+ weeks.  The service lady did explain that, when the car is not in use, the 12V battery will be used to trickle charge the hybrid battery (I guess the hybrid battery is a more expensive failure?), so that would explain why the 12V battery died.  And yes, she said they recommend a solar battery charger, especially if the car is left unused when you go on holiday etc.  Other car maintenance websites point out that cars these days have so many systems running in the background - keyless entry, alarms, wi-fi, numerous other processes - that the 12V battery is being drained far more than used to be the case.

As other owners have said, it's a shame that Toyota can't train its staff to inform prospective buyers about these things.  There's certainly nothing in the manual about it, that I can find.  And it's a shame that the advice I got in March was so severely inadequate.  Seems to be the way of dealerships these days, hey ho.

[CPN]

1 hour ago, Jenny_L said:

 The service lady did explain that, when the car is not in use, the 12V battery will be used to trickle charge the hybrid battery (I guess the hybrid battery is a more expensive failure?), so that would explain why the 12V battery died.

Wow Jenny! That lady is talking so much rubbish!!! The 12v Battery is incapable of even giving the HV Battery a sniff let alone a trickle charge! That lady needs to go back to Toyota's training sessions to learn a bit more about the cars she is servicing!!

1 hour ago, Jenny_L said:

And yes, she said they recommend a solar battery charger, especially if the car is left unused when you go on holiday etc.  Other car maintenance websites point out that cars these days have so many systems running in the background - keyless entry, alarms, wi-fi, numerous other processes - that the 12V battery is being drained far more than used to be the case.

(in red) That is where the main drainage of the 12v Battery occurs when left unused for extended periods and it does not just apply to hybrid cars these days either!

1 hour ago, Jenny_L said:

As other owners have said, it's a shame that Toyota can't train its staff to inform prospective buyers about these things.  There's certainly nothing in the manual about it, that I can find.  And it's a shame that the advice I got in March was so severely inadequate.  Seems to be the way of dealerships these days, hey ho.

There is a section in the manual that describes the process... (but I don't have it just now)

[Chas G]

I am still plugging in every day and it takes less than a minute to get the ctek5  to show 4 lights.

Yesterday I went to the doctors and had to park in a side road about 15 minutes walk from the surgery. I got out of the car and pressed the key......nothing happened so I thought pollocks, the fob Battery must be flat. No choice but to walk to my appointment and leave the car unlocked. For the next 45 minutes all I could think of was whether the key fob would start the car.

Got back to the car I pressed the fob a few more times with no flashing lights, tentatively got in and.........no wonder it wouldn't lock. It was sitting there in ready mode.

At least it had probably charged up the Battery but good job it didn't get pinched.

[Roy124]

16 hours ago, Countryside said:

I wasn’t being ignorant I was just saying looking at the voltage all the time would drive me mad we are all different 

Not suggesting that at all, just 'ignorance is bliss' or 'don't cross the bridge until ...' or don't worry unnecessarily.