To PHEV or not to PHEV...

[P_J]

So I would reverse park on drive, get out, grab the plug from the holster, pull cable over to the RHS and plug in, then tap the door handle to lock, then go in house and effectively ignore it until the morning, when if I've set it up right, the cabin will be climate controlled, Battery full, and I just unlock car door, disconnect plug place in holster, and off to work. Have I missed anything 🙂? 

Doesn't sound too onerous, if I can get the external 13Amp socket fitted, and a charger fitted to wall and accessible. 
Do we have any specs on the supplied granny charger? Seems a standard install should be RCD protected (so an RCBO isn't enough) and if the common Type A RCD is used, this would require a RDC-DD integral to the charger. If it doesn't, then I'd opt for an RCD Type B, but most aftermarket chargers seem to have RDC-DD. 
 

15 hours ago, Mike2222 said:

you are also getting a much prettier/upgraded version of the main infotainment system

Yeah, I had a play with both versions, and the infotainment interface is definitely much improved over the pre-facelift - responsiveness and resolution. 
Not sure on the content, as it was too long in between to remember what was on there. I do remember the binnacle being impossible to set up without presumably referring to a manual! 

That great news about the lack of sunroof being the only difference you're aware of, cos I'm not a fan. I'd probably even pay not to have one 😅 

[ernieb]

The supplied granny cable is 7.5mtrs. I bought a 10mtr Masterplug granny cable and a Masterplug mains box that has a trip etc. (Screwfix is where I got mine) with the cable plugged into the Masterplug box and switched on and the other end connected to the car the green light (in the car plug box) illuminates and the cable is ‘locked’ into the car. Lock the car and walk away. Next morning, fully charged at my ‘leaving time’ unlock the car and detach the cable. If you leave it too long to disconnect the cable even with the car unlocked the cable will be re locked. Only thing to do is lock the car and unlock to detach, unless any one has come up with an alternative.

it is so routine I really don’t think about it, you can force a charge to start either in the car or from the app.

[P_J]

I'm definitely gonna go for Gap insurance, but what other options did people go for? I've been 'offered' a variety of options, mostly around insurance for scratches on body and wheels etc. but also 'ceramic coating' of bodywork, resin coating of the interior etc. Seems to vary by dealer. 

Can't imagine 'ceramic coating' is gonna to be that much better than a coat of a decent wax (Celica looked ace in Meg liquid gold), is it?
I know I'm lazy but I can manage that much (and it gets me away from wife and kids for a few hours on a Sunday!). 

Interested to know peoples experiences, if you can spare to time. 👍

[Flatcoat]

Shop around the internet for your GAP insurance and any other products the dealer tries to foist on you. They are sold by dealers at huge mark up and commission for their sales staff. 

[ELD1970]

[Nicolai]

On 11/23/2023 at 8:25 PM, Mike2222 said:

It will lock with both charging, as well as if it is in position/plugged in when you lock the car (ie via the key fob or front doors) 

 

Choices are obviously subjective, dependent on each owners preferences, but from what I can see you're better off with GR than DP, although one must acknowledge that the sticker price for GR is higher than it was when DP was last available. 

https://media.toyota.co.uk/new-gr-sport-leads-the-toyota-rav4-plug-in-hybrid-line-up/

This article suggests the only major loss is the pano sunroof (which is a cost option on the GR, so you can still have it if you want it), however you get as standard a heated steering wheel and a 360 camera (rather than just a reversing camera and 360 sensors on the DP). Personally I would do a straight trade in a heartbeat, however I know there are plenty of other forumites who value the sunroof (?"moonroof"? I'm not sure if the difference in terminology). 

My Style edition may be quite similar to the GR Sport: I don't have: cooled front seats, pano roof, fast onboard charger or the digital RWM, I do have heated steering wheel (mind you: only heat at 2-3 and 9-10 positions), 360 overview camera. The latter is extremely helpful when parking....

[NASY]

PJ, you have all the information you should need now from friends on this site. The only question I see is if the grin on your face after driving the PHEV is wider than the grin would be looking at your bank balance having decided to opt for the HEV. The other consideration is of course how the future market value will look on both vehicles, it may be that the PHEV remains more fashionable and retains more future value which would make the case for buying the grin whilst driving a slam dunk. In my case I love the grunt of the PHEV regardless of other factors also the way in which it delivers the ride whether charged or not - it's there if you require it. So for me it was a single malt question. 

[P_J]

Haha. Yes I think you've all definitely put my mind to rest about the 'concerns' of plugging in, and I can easily justify the price difference. So, just need to iron out the details of the Gap insurance (definitely cheaper online than the 500 quid the dealers want), whether ceramic coating is a good idea (I have no experience of this, and it seems that it's very dependent on how well they apply it) and then timing the purchase...lead time suggests early Feb for delivery. I'd prefer to wait a few weeks before ordering so i get it as a 24 plate. The dealers don't seem keen to sit on it before registering.. 

[Flatcoat]

If you want the car for the new registration then don’t let the dealer bully you into taking it earlier. All they are interested in is their bonus for meeting sales target. 

[Nicolai]

3 hours ago, P_J said:

Haha. Yes I think you've all definitely put my mind to rest about the 'concerns' of plugging in, and I can easily justify the price difference. So, just need to iron out the details of the Gap insurance (definitely cheaper online than the 500 quid the dealers want), whether ceramic coating is a good idea (I have no experience of this, and it seems that it's very dependent on how well they apply it) and then timing the purchase...lead time suggests early Feb for delivery. I'd prefer to wait a few weeks before ordering so i get it as a 24 plate. The dealers don't seem keen to sit on it before registering.. 

The additional power on tap in the PHEV (and I almost always drive in pure EV mode(!)) should really put a naughty smile on any drivers face. Not sure if OP is considering the 4X4 HEV but the AWD-I surely is a bonus. Although, on rainy / wet roads I haven't really noticed it to kick in as a backup. Seems to be more active when taking off and when cornering....

[nlee]

On 11/23/2023 at 12:00 PM, P_J said:

Or does it only lock when charging, so could be disconnected prior to the schedule starting?

This depends on the set up. The lock relies on sensing current from the plug. If the schedule is controlled by the car (or is set as charge immediately), the plug will lock immediately providing the charger is live. 

If the schedule is set on the charger, for some chargers (like mine), the car will not sense the current until the schedule starts, so it won't lock the plug in until it starts the charge. Never been an issue for me though.

[P_J]

22 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

don’t let the dealer bully you into taking it earlier

Yes I'll make sure its in writing cos I know they'll be trying for quick turnaround. 

20 hours ago, Nicolai said:

Not sure if OP is considering the 4X4 HEV but the AWD-I surely is a bonus

I'm in an AWD now and its got me out of a few muddy fields when others have struggled. So it was high on the wish list. 

1 hour ago, nlee said:

the car will not sense the current until the schedule starts

Ok good to know. I'm not on an EV tariff yet, so will probably just charge straight away, but I have a feeling I'll be looking for a 12-7am cheaper off peak tariff before too long...

[trevd01]

My electricity tariff with Octopus allows 4 hrs at c9p / kWh from 12.30 at night.   On my 7kw wall box ( fitted free by Toyota when I bought my Prius plugin in 2018! ) my RAV4 plugin charges easily in that window.  If I were to use a granny charger, much of the charge would be at 29p full price electricity.

[Nick72]

On 11/23/2023 at 7:30 AM, ernieb said:

I've had my PHEV since May '21 and have managed very well with just a granny charger, the car easily charges overnight and I set the 'leave' time in the app and this works out exactly when to start the charge depending on the state of the traction battery, outside temperature etc.

I would not worry about exercising the iCE the car sorts that out if it thinks it's needed. With your daily drive profile you'd easily make one trip out and part way back, even in winter, so the ICE is likely to kick in anyway. Typical range for me, depending on driving style, is low 40's winter to mid 50's summer.  My annual average is 3.4miles/kWh.  Opting to use the cabin preconditioning, @HSDish, which can be set in the app before you leave will take the power from the house, save battery and defrost the car and be warm when you get in or cool in the summer.

I have never regretted buying this car and still enjoy everyday driving today as when I had my first test drive.  Good luck with whatever you choose.

Agree with all this Ernie.

 

My only point would be not to leave the car with the same tank of petrol for more than 3 or 4 months.

[ernieb]

2 hours ago, Nick72 said:

Agree with all this Ernie.

 

My only point would be not to leave the car with the same tank of petrol for more than 3 or 4 months.

I think that is a reasonable suggestion although I use E5 rather than E10. Suggestively I think it’s less noisy and likely to survive longer in the tank?

[Nick72]

2 minutes ago, ernieb said:

I think that is a reasonable suggestion although I use E5 rather than E10. Suggestively I think it’s less noisy and likely to survive longer in the tank?

I think you are probably right. I tend to use E5 also. Car runs smoother, quieter and seems to have a tiny amount more power.

[P_J]

To follow up on this thread...
Shortly before xmas, I placed an order for a GR Sport PHEV 🎉
Thanks for all the info provided above - it helped enormously with the decision making process. 

I now need to look at GAP insurance, getting the CAMBUS protection plates ordered (though I read now its possibly not needed for the 2024 PHEV if it gets TSS3.0??) and possibly a steering lock (though I'm really not wanting to do this every day!), and getting an external 240V mains socket installed for charging. 

Expecting delivery late Feb/early March, but could be earlier apparently. 

[Flatcoat]

8 minutes ago, P_J said:

To follow up on this thread...
Shortly before xmas, I placed an order for a GR Sport PHEV 🎉
Thanks for all the info provided above - it helped enormously with the decision making process. 

I now need to look at GAP insurance, getting the CAMBUS protection plates ordered (though I read now its possibly not needed for the 2024 PHEV if it gets TSS3.0??) and possibly a steering lock (though I'm really not wanting to do this every day!), and getting an external 240V mains socket installed for charging. 

Expecting delivery late Feb/early March, but could be earlier apparently. 

Congrats, you will not regret it! What colour? Personally I would wait for the new reg to take delivery. Shop around the internet for Gap insurance, far cheaper than any dealer offer. I would also consider paint protection treatments too. I find the paint is soft (like all modern water based paint) and even at 2 years old am pondering some treatment in the spring. At least I now have a new unchipped front after the ‘other’ driver of the car tried to redesign it when parking a few weeks ago….. 

[P_J]

I like it in white, a lot, but white is only good if clean, and I am often busy at weekends with house/kids issues, so not an option for me until I'm retired and kids left home (~15 years left yet!)
The missus liked black, and it does look nice, but again I think needs more looking after, and shows scratches/swirl marks too much for my liking. 
So I opted for what I usually opt for... grey (Decuma). Probably not the 'best' colour, but works for me as the dirt is less noticeable. 
And it matches my hair! 

[Nick72]

4 hours ago, P_J said:

I like it in white, a lot, but white is only good if clean, and I am often busy at weekends with house/kids issues, so not an option for me until I'm retired and kids left home (~15 years left yet!)
The missus liked black, and it does look nice, but again I think needs more looking after, and shows scratches/swirl marks too much for my liking. 
So I opted for what I usually opt for... grey (Decuma). Probably not the 'best' colour, but works for me as the dirt is less noticeable. 
And it matches my hair! 

I got the Dacuma on the 2021 R4P I got. It looks great and I think looks the best in the trim. Although some people said why did you get a car same colour as the road!🤣 It's a lovely colour thank you.

On the R4P GR Sport replacement in August I still can't make my mind up between the Scarlet Flare or the Pearl White. Loving both. Nearly went for decuma again but figured I want a change.

[Nick72]

4 hours ago, P_J said:

To follow up on this thread...
Shortly before xmas, I placed an order for a GR Sport PHEV 🎉
Thanks for all the info provided above - it helped enormously with the decision making process. 

I now need to look at GAP insurance, getting the CAMBUS protection plates ordered (though I read now its possibly not needed for the 2024 PHEV if it gets TSS3.0??) and possibly a steering lock (though I'm really not wanting to do this every day!), and getting an external 240V mains socket installed for charging. 

Expecting delivery late Feb/early March, but could be earlier apparently. 

TSS 3.0?

If this is a possibility I'll delay putting my order in to the company car folks and leave it as late as possible. I may get away with leaving order placement until late March. 

Where did you read this? I'm really interested.

 

[philip42h]

21 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

TSS 3.0?

If this is a possibility I'll delay putting my order in to the company car folks and leave it as late as possible. I may get away with leaving order placement until late March. 

Where did you read this? I'm really interested.

I fear that may have been from something I posted on the "Stolen" thread:

- so, you'll know to take it with a shovel-full of salt ... 😉

One of the hackers was complaining that he couldn't hack vehicles with TSS3. And that sort of makes sense. You will appreciate that to 'fix' the key spoofing issue, Toyota will need to change the protocols on the CANbus - which isn't going to be trivial and would likely come with a significant TSS upgrade. Well, that's my thinking anway - you might need to go get a bigger shovel ... 😉 

And then, in the October 2023 article on the GR-Sport, Toyota UK state: "Similarly, the full RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid range adopts a more comprehensive Toyota Safety Sense package of safety and driver assistance systems, including Emergency Steering Assist and an enhanced Pre-Collision System." If it is more comprehensive than the current / previous one it should then be the 'latest' TSS 3.0? So, another piece of unwarranted inference?

So, if I'm right, you can put you order in today and you'll get what we want. And if I'm wrong, there's no point at all in delaying your order! 🙂 

Pass the salt ...

 

 

[P_J]

Yep it was exactly this I was referring to. Seems feasible that's it somehow improved. Maybe just wishful thinking...

I want to be able to relax a little knowing it isn't going to go missing within a few days of getting it! I guess only time will tell.. can't see Toyota telling..

 

[Doubletalkjive]

10 hours ago, P_J said:

To follow up on this thread...
Shortly before xmas, I placed an order for a GR Sport PHEV 🎉
Thanks for all the info provided above - it helped enormously with the decision making process. 

I now need to look at GAP insurance, getting the CAMBUS protection plates ordered (though I read now its possibly not needed for the 2024 PHEV if it gets TSS3.0??) and possibly a steering lock (though I'm really not wanting to do this every day!), and getting an external 240V mains socket installed for charging. 

Expecting delivery late Feb/early March, but could be earlier apparently. 

I’m in the same boat as you. Ordered the GR Sport PHEV mid November. It arrives in the UK mid January. 

I’m also lazy… will charge from a 3 pin plug to start with. When I can be bothered. Will use ‘charge’ mode in car sometimes. May get 7kW wall box in future. Will charge in shopping centres and get into arguments with BEV owners (I jest 😛).

CAN bus - apparently (according to recent discussions and older discussions on this forum) the RAV PHEV is not susceptible (but HEV is) to the CAN bus attack. Due to the TSK security key, even with TSS 2.5 (doesn’t need TSS 3). I’m still getting a Disklok and a gate alarm for our driveway, already have CCTV. There is a tilt alarm on the RAV4 which should deter cat thieves a little, I read somewhere that despite the ground clearance of the RAV4 it still needs to be jacked up to steal the cat. Not sure if that is true or not.

I went for galaxy black, yes you get swirl marks but judging from my current black car it will be too dirty to see them within a few weeks. Although I think I will take a little more care of the RAV4 when it arrives 😀

I’m getting the Toyota GAP insurance. It is more expensive but I trust it. I don’t see any of the big insurers offering GAP insurance.

My test drive was very mundane, mostly a 20mph area… I didn’t get a chance to smile!

 

 

[P_J]

10 hours ago, Doubletalkjive said:

I’m getting the Toyota GAP insurance. It is more expensive but I trust it.

I'm likely to do this too. I didn't like the small print on some of the other GAP insurance products I found - didn't fill me with confidence. 
I also found 100 quid difference in the cost of the GAP products offered between my local Toyota dealers! 

I perhaps need to look at getting something more than just the Ring doorbell pointing onto the drive. Something a touch more obvious. 

I'll look at disklok and other options, if only to have for when I need to leave somewhere I don't trust (i.e. not work/home).
Can't see me using it daily, but that may become my downfall...

Incidentally, I installed the MyToyota app yesterday and now I'm suddenly getting notifications for my order. 
It's built and on its way apparently. Hopefully the earthquakes, tidal waves, and pirates don't interfere too much in our deliveries..