Crunch time: I need to order a new company car!

[Nick72]

30 minutes ago, Mike2222 said:

Bored now. 

 

Let me know when you buy your unicorn 👍

Weird then how you start one and keep doing it whilst pretending not to be. Contradicting yourself. Very odd. 

Could be picked the wrong EV Leaf bitterness?

[Cyker]

43 minutes ago, Mike2222 said:

Bored now. 

 

Let me know when you buy your unicorn 👍

Just to clarify, I'm not arguing, I'm kidding around and being generally flippant because someone has to stop everyone getting too grouchy on these forums! That is a very wise flowchart tho'  

[Strangely Brown]

Reality:

 

[NASY]

Adrian, sorry to hear you seem to not have retirement as an option. I took it as a lifestyle choice at age 55 and I'm still thinking it was the right thing to do 13 years later. It's probably why I drive a Toyota - need dependability. Great thread this, where some people seem invested so much that I detect emotion overtaking logic. None of it bad as a few challenges to one's thinking are a healthy check pace giving time to reflect on what matters. One observation I did make is that if we get the EV range we seem to all desire there will be less and less reason to provide more public chargers which would be a shame. I would be okay with a light weight, efficient, short range EV if recharging facilities were plentiful.

[Flatcoat]

3 hours ago, Nick72 said:

Well I'm hoping to avoid divorce or I'll be working with you! When I say retirement I mean working on what I want to work on for myself.

Apologies for topic drift however the combination of greed/lies from my ex and the 2008/9 recession induced long term redundancy totally wiped out my pension. In effect my private pension has only been rebuilt since 2010 on an income half my pre 2009 earnings (when I was a director of an architects practice). I am however fortunate in loving my work - having left school 50 years ago to pursue a career in Architecture specialising in housing.
Back to cars! we have a Dynamic Premium PHEV bought at the optimum time after the 2021 price drop, when significant discounts were still negotiable and interest rates were low. In the end We chose the red/black colour combo albeit we also liked the grey/black and silver/black too. We are (mostly) very happy with the car, albeit in hindsight we should have looked at the Highlander and possibly Lexus options. In practice I have No idea what we will replace it with, or when, but wouldn’t rule out another especially if the EV range is improved at facelift time. 

[Rav Rob]

12 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

Retirement….. What’s that…? I am 66 and still working full time! Cant afford to retire (my ex made sure of that…..) 

I feel a bit bad as I am 59. Was going to 60 but don't like where the job is going and had enough. Lucky to be in a good position, thanks to the financial advisor 20 years ago that persuaded me a to take out a revolutionary current account mortgage at the time. Worked out good.

anyway I am fascinated by the discussion here of EV prices dropping. I am considering buying my RAV due to crazy price rises!
I think I am looking at maybe £23K to buy out mine from the lease company, it cost £36K when bought, but is now more like £45K! for fairly minor improvements, mainly the 360 camera.
Mine is an Excel 4WD so really wants for very little, will probably be trouble free, barely 2 years old only 40K miles, will do a lot less miles in future, does everything you could want and turns in 50mpg. It would be hard to replace with anything as good for 23K!

[Nick72]

2 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

Apologies for topic drift however the combination of greed/lies from my ex and the 2008/9 recession induced long term redundancy totally wiped out my pension. In effect my private pension has only been rebuilt since 2010 on an income half my pre 2009 earnings (when I was a director of an architects practice). I am however fortunate in loving my work - having left school 50 years ago to pursue a career in Architecture specialising in housing.
Back to cars! we have a Dynamic Premium PHEV bought at the optimum time after the 2021 price drop, when significant discounts were still negotiable and interest rates were low. In the end We chose the red/black colour combo albeit we also liked the grey/black and silver/black too. We are (mostly) very happy with the car, albeit in hindsight we should have looked at the Highlander and possibly Lexus options. In practice I have No idea what we will replace it with, or when, but wouldn’t rule out another especially if the EV range is improved at facelift time. 

I'm really sorry to hear that Flatcoat. It was a rough time but sounds like you got hit really hard with some double or triple whammies. But if you love going into work then that's no different to having a hobby. Keep making it fun and enjoy it. That would be my dream. None of us know what's around the corner either. 

It was a bad time for us back then in the recession. My wife had cancer, very young child with chronic asthma due to a problem with the old doer upper house we bought and what was in the crawl space, and as a result debts up to the eyeballs. Once we sold the house after fixing all the issues we were close to broke so actually had to down size big time. We bought at a house price peak and sold at a low. Lost a lot of money. Long story but we are all still alive and in a much better place. Just very bad memories of that time window. 

I've got the Dacuma Grey and black. Love the colour but wanting a change. I thought scarlet flare and black bitone because that was the colour of my Merc several years back with big black alloys. I think it was called Jupiter red. Very vampire. Loved it. The RAV looks great here too. But, I'm also loving the stormtrooper white and black. So now I'm just not sure. So it's just down to which colour of GR Sport as opposed to is there a BEV good enough to consider. Not for a few years. 

[Yugguy1970]

Just to get back on track, like most people I think, I'm neither a hater nor a fanboi of EVs, but I really think we are 10 or more years off then being a real, viable option for the majority of drivers.

Which is why I'll hold on to my petrol hybrids for as long as they are available.

[Nick72]

11 minutes ago, Rav Rob said:

I feel a bit bad as I am 59. Was going to 60 but don't like where the job is going and had enough. Lucky to be in a good position, thanks to the financial advisor 20 years ago that persuaded me a to take out a revolutionary current account mortgage at the time. Worked out good.

anyway I am fascinated by the discussion here of EV prices dropping. I am considering buying my RAV due to crazy price rises!
I think I am looking at maybe £23K to buy out mine from the lease company, it cost £36K when bought, but is now more like £45K! for fairly minor improvements, mainly the 360 camera.
Mine is an Excel 4WD so really wants for very little, will probably be trouble free, barely 2 years old only 40K miles, will do a lot less miles in future, does everything you could want and turns in 50mpg. It would be hard to replace with anything as good for 23K!

I've been lucky on the pension front. Same company for 34 years and the pension during that time has grown significantly. Thinking I'm mortal these days, health going south, so early retirement and switch to something less stressful and not as many long hours and weekend it has to be sorted jobs. 

Second car market seems to have gone bananas. My wife had constant calls from BMW to buy her car back and they were offering many thousands more than she owed and it was worth. She kept hold of it. 

The RAV in hybrid and PHEV forms is a tough car go beat. I've been on the US forums where some folks have put over a quarter million miles on theirs (I think one guy was a sort of courier) and spent very little on repairs per mile. Not many brake changes either.

A neighbour a few doors down has an old model silver RAV which looks like new. They've had it for a while.

I am in truth nervous of considering other brands if they aren't the usual premium German suspects or Toyota. Fingers burned in the past by shoddy engineering and poor customer service. Whilst I haven't had complete reliability satisfaction with the RAV it has been better than the majority of my past cars over what has about 35 or so years of motoring. It was the Battery going flat caused by bad software issue. Came out the blue post "service" and gave me grief for a couple of months having to use a jump starter MOCO device. Hassle. 2 days no driving and Battery was flat. Sometimes 4 days. All fixed after an update and as I mentioned in another post I recently left the car for 3.5 weeks without use and it started no problem. There has been a number of service bulletins which on one hand is great... Spot problem fix problem but on the other hand it is a hassle taking your car in twice a year on top of servicing to get things sorted and my dealer isn't particularly competent if I'm honest. You know the type, B+ for effort but otherwise a C-.

 

[Cyker]

11 minutes ago, Yugguy1970 said:

Just to get back on track, like most people I think, I'm neither a hater nor a fanboi of EVs, but I really think we are 10 or more years off then being a real, viable option for the majority of drivers.

Which is why I'll hold on to my petrol hybrids for as long as they are available.

I think the same - It's funny as Toyota's whole road map was a gradual transition with HEV and PHEV as stepping stones to get people used to charging and give the infrastructure time to grow, but everyone else pooh-pooh'd them and tried to go straight to EV - Too much, too fast, and now we've got substandard badly maintained chargers, and EVs that are are suitable for a narrow range of use-cases that are ruining their reputation as general purpose vehicles, which will slow adoption rates even when they do improve to be more generally useful.

Kinda like how, because of the Prius, everyone still thinks hybrids are slow, boring and soulless, and are only now slowly starting to challenge that assumption (I'm helping of course   )

I think society as a whole needs to just chill out and regain some patience and planning - We're too addicted to having EVERYTHING, NOW! RIGHT NOW!

...

damnit now I have that I want the world song from charlie and the chocolate factory stuck in my head!

 

 

[NASY]

Comforting that this is all getting back to people actually having an interest in each others position and at the same time expressing views which reflect each others circumstances and opinions. Let's face it we all want to save the planet but what for if it isn't worth living on. Looking back at the original posters title it was 'Crunch Time', is that really where anyone is right now? If so don't panic to quote Hitchhikers Guide, which is sound advice in my book. I'd love a new Landcruiser on one hand because it looks so good and does everything and more that I want however I'd also like the new Prius which would make me feel more responsible and grown up. I guess a RAV is somewhere between the two and hence a great compromise, which is whereI am currently - not the worst place to be and Nick is certainly not in a bad place - just an interesting one.

[Nick72]

1 hour ago, NASY said:

Comforting that this is all getting back to people actually having an interest in each others position and at the same time expressing views which reflect each others circumstances and opinions. Let's face it we all want to save the planet but what for if it isn't worth living on. Looking back at the original posters title it was 'Crunch Time', is that really where anyone is right now? If so don't panic to quote Hitchhikers Guide, which is sound advice in my book. I'd love a new Landcruiser on one hand because it looks so good and does everything and more that I want however I'd also like the new Prius which would make me feel more responsible and grown up. I guess a RAV is somewhere between the two and hence a great compromise, which is whereI am currently - not the worst place to be and Nick is certainly not in a bad place - just an interesting one.

That's well put and I think it does all come down to personal circumstances even if we all did end up with Toyotas and RAV4s for now or for the long term. I do like mine, it has been one of the best cars I've had and I'm sure it will still be going strong in a decade without any issues (apart from that expensive to fix connector corrosion issue... which I hope would be honoured under a warrantee fix). 😂🙏

Just on @Cyker point, agreed 💯 that Toyota have got the right approach with the hybrids and PHEVs. Follow BEVs later when the Battery and motor tech is better and more compatible with more of the market's needs. Start gently with a few BEVs to gain experience and knowledge and then hit the market with discriminating Battery tech (range and cost) as per their roadmaps. 

I think Tesla knew this too but went for a charging network to overcome the range anxiety and uncertainty issues? 

[Yugguy1970]

TBH apart from the Badge kudos I can't think of a better car than the RAV PHEV.  It has the oomph of an EV and the convenience of a petrol hybrid.  I'd have one if I could stretch to it.  

[Nick72]

2 hours ago, Yugguy1970 said:

TBH apart from the badge kudos I can't think of a better car than the RAV PHEV.  It has the oomph of an EV and the convenience of a petrol hybrid.  I'd have one if I could stretch to it.  

Agree. It's why I got it. And why I got a 3008 hybrid4 GT 300 PHEV previously. Although that car looked great inside and out, had a great spec, lots of cool innovative features, an amazing 3D navigation system and more... But the drive train was bad, the efficiency in EV mode was terrible, and it had a badly leaky roof despite probably 6 or more attempts to fix it, and intermittently in EV mode there was a strange hesitation after putting one's foot down which was positively dangerous at junctions especially as it was a once in 5 to 10 times thing. Dead for about 2 or 3 seconds. Peugeot and the dealership were in denial. It's why I went straight to Toyota for the reliability and generally well thought through engineering after dumping that car back on Peugeot with a lot of hard core legal and documented evidence. They took it back. So I won't go anywhere near them or their umbrella group with other makers in the future. 

But I would make some changes on the UK R4P.

1. I want the American market tech we don't get (high power mains outlet in the boot, digital rear view mirror, kick gesture boot opening, etc). 

2. I'd like another 10 to 15 mile EV range to cover my 2nd most frequent round trips. At no extra weight.

3. Wishing... I'd like a 120hp rear motor rather than the 54 I think it is, for better performance and drive feel. Especially better EV performance above 50mph.

4. A much better more reliable App and servers.

[Flatcoat]

I suspect longer range will come driven by competitors increasing their PHEV ranges. My guess is 80 miles will soon become the standard to aim for, possibly increasing to 100 by 2030. Other improvements I would like to see are fit for purpose finishes and materials in the boot and rear passenger trim plastics. Current materials are Far too easily marked. In terms of spec items I would like to see headlamp washers, reversing camera cleaning, map updating designed for installation by non IT geeks. 
I like current Peugeot styling, especially the 508 estate. It is a shame their tech is still Gallic in its operation and reliability! 

[Oscarmax]

1 hour ago, Nick72 said:

Agree. It's why I got it. And why I got a 3008 hybrid4 GT 300 PHEV previously. Although that car looked great inside and out, had a great spec, lots of cool innovative features, an amazing 3D navigation system and more... But the drive train was bad, the efficiency in EV mode was terrible, and it had a badly leaky roof despite probably 6 or more attempts to fix it, and intermittently in EV mode there was a strange hesitation after putting one's foot down which was positively dangerous at junctions especially as it was a once in 5 to 10 times thing. Dead for about 2 or 3 seconds. Peugeot and the dealership were in denial. It's why I went straight to Toyota for the reliability and generally well thought through engineering after dumping that car back on Peugeot with a lot of hard core legal and documented evidence. They took it back. So I won't go anywhere near them or their umbrella group with other makers in the future. 

But I would make some changes on the UK R4P.

1. I want the American market tech we don't get (high power mains outlet in the boot, digital rear view mirror, kick gesture boot opening, etc). 

2. I'd like another 10 to 15 mile EV range to cover my 2nd most frequent round trips. At no extra weight.

3. Wishing... I'd like a 120hp rear motor rather than the 54 I think it is, for better performance and drive feel. Especially better EV performance above 50mph.

4. A much better more reliable App and servers.

We recently changed from a 2020 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV 2.4 in all areas it was an excellent reliable vehicle, it was fitted with a 80 kW rear motor, since changing the the Across we have noticed any difference, the RAV4/Across drive/powertrain is so much more advanced it night and day.

[Nick72]

4 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

I suspect longer range will come driven by competitors increasing their PHEV ranges. My guess is 80 miles will soon become the standard to aim for, possibly increasing to 100 by 2030. Other improvements I would like to see are fit for purpose finishes and materials in the boot and rear passenger trim plastics. Current materials are Far too easily marked. In terms of spec items I would like to see headlamp washers, reversing camera cleaning, map updating designed for installation by non IT geeks. 
I like current Peugeot styling, especially the 508 estate. It is a shame their tech is still Gallic in its operation and reliability! 

Oh it's the the usual French car stuff, looks great, feels great, but underneath it's badly engineered and unreliable. If it worked it would have been awesome.

Out of your great list Flatcoat I'd definitely take the rear camera cleaner. On the Merc I had it was tucked under the boot lip and popped out from its self cleaning housing only when the car was put into reverse. Took me a while to realise where the damn thing was because after 2 years it managed to get a little dirty and I was trying to find it to clean it 😂.

Definitely easily scratched on the hard plastics. Got a few marks and gouges despite being careful.

[Nick72]

Just now, Nick72 said:

Oh it's the the usual French car stuff, looks great, feels great, but underneath it's badly engineered and unreliable. If it worked it would have been awesome.

Out of your great list Flatcoat I'd definitely take the rear camera cleaner. On the Merc I had it was tucked under the boot lip and popped out from its self cleaning housing only when the car was put into reverse. Took me a while to realise where the damn thing was because after 2 years it managed to get a little dirty and I was trying to find it to clean it 😂.

Definitely easily scratched on the hard plastics. Got a few marks and gouges despite being careful.

That was a really high resolution camera with amazing night vision capability. So you could imagine the shock on getting the RAV. VHS long play and the VCR tracking is out. 😂 Still, it works well enough and I believe they've since upgraded it in the newer models.

[Nick72]

Almost there... Just needs to be in an SUV which will bring down the range but 500 should be doable. I just need circa 300.

 

650 miles, real world, 50mph...?

https://www.gbnews.com/lifestyle/cars/chinese-electric-car-range-battery-uk-launch

 

 

[Doubletalkjive]

We were in a similar position when it came to buying a car. LLP here so none of the BIK stuff, but with a BEV you can claim 100% expense in the first year, for under 50g CO2 it’s 18% expense per year. 

Almost went for the Tesla Model Y LR. But I just don’t think a BEV suits our lifestyle (lots of road trips). We went for a RAV4 PHEV. Another reason we went the PHEV route was the option of two energy sources for powering the vehicle. The world is a strange place… if one day we can’t find petrol at the pumps at least we can charge and carry out short trips. I know it sounds a little doomsday-ish but hey, the world is a little messed up. Although I guess we may have more to worry about if the proverbial hits the fan 🙂

 

 

[Nick72]

7 minutes ago, Doubletalkjive said:

We were in a similar position when it came to buying a car. LLP here so none of the BIK stuff, but with a BEV you can claim 100% expense in the first year, for under 50g CO2 it’s 18% expense per year. 

Almost went for the Tesla Model Y LR. But I just don’t think a BEV suits our lifestyle (lots of road trips). We went for a RAV4 PHEV. Another reason we went the PHEV route was the option of two energy sources for powering the vehicle. The world is a strange place… if one day we can’t find petrol at the pumps at least we can charge and carry out short trips. I know it sounds a little doomsday-ish but hey, the world is a little messed up. Although I guess we may have more to worry about if the proverbial hits the fan 🙂

 

 

It's good thinking. We went through a similar thought process. I'd love an SUV EV (high performance, all the gadgets, more internal volume for storage) but range and infrastructure not up to it for my needs. Pretty close but not quite. Tesla the best solutions still.

And in the back of my mind I'm thinking but what happens when electric cost per mile is significantly more than petrol? Or when it's the zombie apocalypse and we need multiple fuel options. 

[Doubletalkjive]

3 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

It's good thinking. We went through a similar thought process. I'd love an SUV EV (high performance, all the gadgets, more internal volume for storage) but range and infrastructure not up to it for my needs. Pretty close but not quite. Tesla the best solutions still.

And in the back of my mind I'm thinking but what happens when electric cost per mile is significantly more than petrol? Or when it's the zombie apocalypse and we need multiple fuel options. 

When it came to the Tesla my wife hated the interior. She said it was cheap. Having said that I would love to own a Plaid as a second car, even with left hand drive who cares 😛

Toyota reminds me of Tonka trucks. All those big buttons, very practical. Last thing I want to be is stuck at a charger when the zombie horde is approaching…

 

[Strangely Brown]

1 hour ago, Nick72 said:

And in the back of my mind I'm thinking but what happens when electric cost per mile is significantly more than petrol?

For anyone using public charging infrastructure the cost per mile is already significantly more than both petrol and diesel.

[Cyker]

What I don't get is why electricity prices are still so high - Originally it was due to Russia cutting off gas supplies and making the cost of gas skyrocket, but surely everyones secured alternative supplies now or sorted out alternatives (I bet France are feeling real smug now, being the only country that put in the investment and are now able to export so much power from all their nuclear plants!!  ) so why hasn't it shown any signs of coming down??

 

[Nick72]

1 hour ago, Doubletalkjive said:

When it came to the Tesla my wife hated the interior. She said it was cheap. Having said that I would love to own a Plaid as a second car, even with left hand drive who cares 😛

Toyota reminds me of Tonka trucks. All those big buttons, very practical. Last thing I want to be is stuck at a charger when the zombie horde is approaching…

 

😂😎👍