Would you Bank on this?

[Bper]

A new clause gives government the power to inspect the bank accounts of anyone claiming a social security benefit: child benefit, state pension, universal credit. Why is the government bringing these powers forward now, with zero scrutiny? The state has always had powers concerning benefits fraud, this proposal for surveillance when there is no suspicion at all, is a substantial expansion of the state’s power to intrude.

The amendment gives the government extremely broad powers, with no checks in place, and it’s being done in a way that minimises parliament scrutiny. I do not see how this has become allowed.

[Pabloo1]

Nice Bank ! i have one dollavs 

[davidif]

13 hours ago, Bper said:

A new clause gives government the power to inspect the bank accounts of anyone claiming a social security benefit: child benefit, state pension, universal credit. Why is the government bringing these powers forward now, with zero scrutiny? The state has always had powers concerning benefits fraud, this proposal for surveillance when there is no suspicion at all, is a substantial expansion of the state’s power to intrude.

The amendment gives the government extremely broad powers, with no checks in place, and it’s being done in a way that minimises parliament scrutiny. I do not see how this has become allowed.

Bob, I'd be interested to see where this new legislation appears?

[Bper]

Hi David, it is currently not legislation it is a rushed through clause 34 in the Data protection and Digital information bill that will give the DWP the powers to look into people's bank accounts.

Once the bill gets through both houses and gets royal ascent it will become lawful.

To condense the post this is a part of the amendment.

Amendments to the Data Protection and Digital Information Bill will give the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) new powers to access the bank account of any person in receipt of a benefit payment provided by the UK Government - past or present. This also includes some 12.6 million people currently claiming their State Pension.

During the recent debate in the House of Commons around proposed changes to the BIll, chair of the Work and Pensions Committee , Sir Stephen Timms, sought clarity on the need to look into bank accounts of people on State Pension as it is not a means-tested payment - it is a contributory benefit whose monetary value is determined by an individual’s National Insurance contributions.

I think the general public really have no idea how these amendments are pushed through without scrutiny and virtually no MSM attention. This is seen as way of looking at means testing the state pension in the future yet alone any other legitimate benefits that people may be entitled to.

2 hours ago, davidif said:

Bob, I'd be interested to see where this new legislation appears?

 

[davidif]

This is worrying and should be publicly discussed and debated.

 

[Bper]

Hi David, As a recent recipient of the state pension I like many paid my taxes and contributions that the Government required me to do so throughout my working career.

However,as an example through self employment and hard work I have accumulated a reasonable amount of savings which subsidies my state pension. The problem is the DWP could use this power to look into my accounts and decide to reduce my pension based on their assessment of my financial circumstances without recourse to me. I for one will be keeping an eye on this bill as it progresses through parliament.

 

[Yugguy1970]

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/state-pension-will-not-be-means-tested-despite-dwp-powers-to-see-bank-accounts-2791265?ico=most_popular

If you beleive the politicians....

[Rhymes with Paris]

It looks to me like it will be directed towards means tested benefits, like pension credit for instance.

I think in order to claim a means tested benefit,it is required to provide bank statements anyway initially.

A few pensioners I know assure me that "everybody" gets pension credit and attendance allowance, because they do.

They're wrong, and usually have spent every penny through their hands as soon as possible,or even before they get it, saving nothing.

Maybe they're wiser than me and others who are careful how they spend money, and have savings for emergencies and necessities.

However I would find it incredibly stressful to have no money and be dependent on discretionary benefits or grants to replace a boiler say,or have to wait until the next payment in the bank before I could get food shopping,or put petrol in my car.

[Bper]

1 hour ago, Yugguy1970 said:

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/state-pension-will-not-be-means-tested-despite-dwp-powers-to-see-bank-accounts-2791265?ico=most_popular

If you beleive the politicians....

Guy, I think this reminds me of Sadiq Khan who after extensive public consultation then completely ignored the overall objections and went ahead with the EULEZ expansion anyway.

How many times have we been given assurances that polices will only be used in a minority of cases only to be rolled out to all of us.🙄

[Haliotis]

Bob, neither a state pension nor a private are subject to means testing, regardless of how much you have in savings.

Interest on savings IS subject to income tax - at the moment I understand that the first £1,000 is free of tax, but above that IS taxable if, added to the earned income allowance, the total exceeds that allowance. Then, tax will be taken on the interest above the allowance plus the first £1,000.

If it is a joint account (say, husband and wife), the first £2,000 interest is free of tax, then the liability for tax above the £2,000 is divided into two halves.  If the wife has no other income, or it is way below the current tax threshold, the wife’s half would not be liable for tax if the total did not reach the threshold. If it did, only the amount above the threshold would be liable to tax.

But you have to watch the IR.  Years ago, when we downsized, we put the surplus into a joint savings account. Because my wife did not work, they tried to tax all the interest against me.  I challenge the IR, and demanded details of any statute which said a wife was not allowed to earn interest in her own right.  It all went quiet and I heard no more from the IR!!!

[Roy124]

Albert, mostly correct except it will be £500 next year.  At the moment  my wife does not pay income tax even though her investment income is over the threshold and she passes the maximum tax transfer to me.

We avoided tax and shares ISA as there are additional charges.   However it is more likely that she will outlive me.  That being the case she will suddenly be into paying tax.

She has to fill a tax return each year because  of investment income  though they usually owe her a rebate. They have paid 2 rebates out of 4 due though one was never received. 

[Bper]

23 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

Bob, neither a state pension nor a private are subject to means testing, regardless of how much you have in savings.

Interest on savings IS subject to income tax - at the moment I understand that the first £1,000 is free of tax, but above that IS taxable if, added to the earned income allowance, the total exceeds that allowance. Then, tax will be taken on the interest above the allowance plus the first £1,000.

If it is a joint account (say, husband and wife), the first £2,000 interest is free of tax, then the liability for tax above the £2,000 is divided into two halves.  If the wife has no other income, or it is way below the current tax threshold, the wife’s half would not be liable for tax if the total did not reach the threshold. If it did, only the amount above the threshold would be liable to tax.

But you have to watch the IR.  Years ago, when we downsized, we put the surplus into a joint savings account. Because my wife did not work, they tried to tax all the interest against me.  I challenge the IR, and demanded details of any statute which said a wife was not allowed to earn interest in her own right.  It all went quiet and I heard no more from the IR!!!

I would recommend those that are claiming state pension or indeed other benefits to take a look at this video of Stephen Timms the Labour MP on his parliament speech and his comments on this bill that has been rushed through.

The Video is just over 11 minutes but please listen to the whole of the speech as this is about the future of this ammended clause 34 of the Data protection and digital information bill and the DWP powers.

this is not about the current state pension or private pension which does not require means testing..

https://youtu.be/UpNaf2dz1zU?si=8TlMv1TubL_gBHMx
 

 

.

[Haliotis]

2 hours ago, Roy124 said:

Albert, mostly correct except it will be £500 next year.  

Roy, I have not found any reference to this reduction.  Could you be confusing it with the current £500 allowed for 40% tax payers?

[Primus1]

This will explain why the government pushed workplace pensions so they can reduce the state pension if you have additional income from another source, although strangely, the conservatives are targeting their key voters, ie, pensioners, this is for a future Tory government, don’t think it won’t happen, they’ve alreadtried to reduce workers rights and removing the echr, trying to replace it with their own human rights which will be non existent…

[FROSTYBALLS]

In the current fraud strategy (updated in the summer), six benefits are being targeted:

Universal Credit
Housing Benefit (pension age cases)
Pension Credit
State Pension
Personal Independence Payment (PIP)
Disability Living Allowance (DLA)

Officials found £120 million of fraud in Pension Credit in 2022/2023, with the biggest cause identified as people going abroad for a longer period than is allowed.

Overall, claimants under-declaring financial assets was the largest source of total overpayments, accounting for over £4 in every £10 overpaid.

In claims of the State Pension itself, no fraud was found. But there were overpayments of £60 million due to claimant errors.

[Primus1]

But the implications of this will allow the dwp to look at state pensioners accounts and make adjustments if you have other incomes such as a private pension, the state pension is classed as a benefit when we know, if you’ve paid into it all your working life, then it is an entitlement..

[Yugguy1970]

19 hours ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

It looks to me like it will be directed towards means tested benefits, like pension credit for instance.

I think in order to claim a means tested benefit,it is required to provide bank statements anyway initially.

A few pensioners I know assure me that "everybody" gets pension credit and attendance allowance, because they do.

They're wrong, and usually have spent every penny through their hands as soon as possible,or even before they get it, saving nothing.

Maybe they're wiser than me and others who are careful how they spend money, and have savings for emergencies and necessities.

However I would find it incredibly stressful to have no money and be dependent on discretionary benefits or grants to replace a boiler say,or have to wait until the next payment in the bank before I could get food shopping,or put petrol in my car.

Agreed.  I have and would take benefits if I needed them but I don't like it and much prefer to pay my own way.  I'm in a good job so do have the means but I am also making sure I'm putting enough into my company pension that I don't need the state pension to survive.

That said I would be really annoyed if I didn't get it, as I've paid a lot of NI into the system down the years.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Update:

The Secretary of State said: “There has been a great deal of scaremongering about what exactly these powers are about.” He added, “I can make it categorically clear from the Dispatch Box that these powers are there to make sure that, in instances where there is a clear signal of fraud or error, my Department is able to take action. In the absence of that, it will not.”

Extracted from 

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/cost-of-living/new-dwp-update-powers-investigate-28335988