2021/22 or 2023 1.8 Corolla?

[Spagboll]

Hi all, 

I’m considering a 1.8 Corolla in the future & have been doing a good amount of research. 

Correct me if I’m wrong but these are the general improvements in the 2023 Corolla:

- Power increase

- More efficient

- Different transmission setup with a 1st gear?

- Better tech

- Toyota Safety Sense 3.0

Given the above, do you reckon it’s worth getting the 2023 over the 21/22 even though you can get the latter for sub £14k now? Also, I believe the latter comes with Safety Sense 2.5? 

Again, I’m not looking to buy right now, mainly due to interest rates being crap but also want to see the longevity of the newer model over 2-3 years.

However, I am a tad worried this model won’t depreciate as much as the 2020-22 due to the improvements & tech but also the looming  ban on the sale of new petrol/diesels/hybrids in 2035 which could cause used prices to shoot up again.

Any opinions/info welcome 🙂 

Cheers

 

 

[yossarian247]

Re the transmission with the 1st gear, I think that is only on non-hybrid conventional petrol CVT models such as those sold in the US and which we don't see in the UK.  AFAIK there isn't any change to the transmissions of the hybrids.

[Mojo1010]

Still 12 years to go for hybrid apparently, wouldn't worry about it yet. When the time come to buy the car, decide then. 

[TonyHSD]

Do not worry about future of cars unless you have boundaries an electric car, those are the first to get banned very soon, even before the ice. Battery gate is the next big thing. My predictions are happening sooner than expected. 
About the Corolla MY, 2023 has hybrid gen5 which is an upgrade over previous gen4, particularly on the electric side of the power trains, the safety sense, and the drivers interface, digital cockpit, better infotainment screens, adde remote controls and functionality. Overall a better cars. Some issues reported in early models like corrosion on hatch hinges been reworked middle of 2022, some other improvements too. Better headlights on most trim levels in latest models. , I previous ones only excel top spec has the good one. If money not a problem the 2023 worth every penny. If on a budget then anything from 2019 would do it and it will be better car than anything else from that era just because of the hybrid technology. 

[Spagboll]

Thanks all for the replies, these are great 🙂 

[bigblock]

I would go for the 2023 spec as it's a big improvement all round. Toyota have gone round the whole vehicle and fine tuned everything in my opinion. I had a 2020 2.0 TS Corolla previously and the difference is chalk and cheese. Don't be concerned about the future. Electric is not the answer, just a passing phase untill combustion engines will become very clean on an alternative fuel. It's already happening now. The electric boom has broke. The gormless have got there milk floats now which leaves the intelligent ones who don't want them.

[yossarian247]

Although I was relieved when the ICE car ban was pushed back to 2035, unfortunately there was a large element of 'smoke and mirrors' as the quota system for sales of EVs versus ICEs is still going ahead as planned:

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-electric-vehicle-quotas-2024/

From next month manufacturers will be fined £15k for every ICE car sold over the target, starting at a ratio of 22% EV to 78% ICE, and gradually increasing to a ratio of 80% EV to 20% ICE by 2030. The reality therefore is whilst it will still be possible to buy new ICE cars until 2034, they are likely to become prohibitively expensive before then.

My understanding is that hybrids count as ICE under these quotas rather than EV, but there has been some confusion on this and I would be happy to be proved wrong!

I suspect though that with the sales of EVs already falling these quotas will prove to be unworkable in reality. I think the current government probably know full well that they are unworkable, but also know that they are going to lose the next election, so cynically I would suggest they are leaving the quotas in force to blow up in the next government's face!

 

 

[mpm235]

16 hours ago, bigblock said:

I would go for the 2023 spec as it's a big improvement all round. Toyota have gone round the whole vehicle and fine tuned everything in my opinion. I had a 2020 2.0 TS Corolla previously and the difference is chalk and cheese. Don't be concerned about the future. Electric is not the answer, just a passing phase untill combustion engines will become very clean on an alternative fuel. It's already happening now. The electric boom has broke. The gormless have got there milk floats now which leaves the intelligent ones who don't want them.

"The electric boom has broke. The gormless have got there milk floats now which leaves the intelligent ones who don't want them."  Well Said Sir! Very true, cheers, Mark

[mpm235]

22 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Do not worry about future of cars unless you have boundaries an electric car, those are the first to get banned very soon, even before the ice. Battery gate is the next big thing. My predictions are happening sooner than expected. 
About the Corolla MY, 2023 has hybrid gen5 which is an upgrade over previous gen4, particularly on the electric side of the power trains, the safety sense, and the drivers interface, digital cockpit, better infotainment screens, adde remote controls and functionality. Overall a better cars. Some issues reported in early models like corrosion on hatch hinges been reworked middle of 2022, some other improvements too. Better headlights on most trim levels in latest models. , I previous ones only excel top spec has the good one. If money not a problem the 2023 worth every penny. If on a budget then anything from 2019 would do it and it will be better car than anything else from that era just because of the hybrid technology. 

"Battery gate is the next big thing" Yes, absolutely

[Yugguy1970]

I don't understand the hate for electric purely as a driving force.  I don't mean how it's been forced on us, or the fact that the charging infrastructure is dreadful, but I don't hate electric itself.  In fact I think that the most capable car for any type of road would be an electric 4wd with a computer controlled motor on each wheel.

We ALL essentially drive electric cars, as that's what makes our hybrids smooth and fast on the pick up.

[yossarian247]

My hate is for the government forcing things on us, pure and simple. They should let technology and the free market decide IMHO. I don't hate EVs as such.

[davidif]

I think that propulsion by an electric motor is an excellent idea, much less so is current Battery technology.

When are we going to see the breakthroughs in Battery technology that seems to be constantly talked about?

 

[yossarian247]

13 minutes ago, davidif said:

I think that propulsion by an electric motor is an excellent idea, much less so is current battery technology.

When are we going to see the breakthroughs in battery technology that seems to be constantly talked about?

 

Battery technology has improved massively but still has a long way to go I think. My view is that it never pays to be an early adopter with any new technology. Let others pay a premium, help to iron out the bugs, then when it's finally cheap and reliable I'll consider it!

I have no problem with the government giving tax breaks to EV drivers to encourage people to choose them, but I do object to the arbitrary bans on new ICE vehicles. They didn't feel the need to ban horses or steam engines, so why ICEs? Green virtue-signalling basically, and as a huge amount of our electricity still comes from burning natural gas it's not even 'green'.

[mpm235]

2 hours ago, Yugguy1970 said:

I don't understand the hate for electric purely as a driving force.  I don't mean how it's been forced on us, or the fact that the charging infrastructure is dreadful, but I don't hate electric itself.  In fact I think that the most capable car for any type of road would be an electric 4wd with a computer controlled motor on each wheel.

We ALL essentially drive electric cars, as that's what makes our hybrids smooth and fast on the pick up.

I hate it due to the politics behind it. Government, dancing to the tune of the Greta gang eco loony tunes, over privileged hippies gluing themselves to the country's infrastructure and vandalising works of art. Government accepts their idiocy as facts, then forces it onto us. It's this that I don't like, not the actual EV's. If you can afford an EV, and can plug it in at home, best of luck to you, crack on and enjoy it. It's the forcing of EV onto to people who can neither afford it, or have somewhere to plug it in (like me for example), that overheats my urine.

[yossarian247]

39 minutes ago, mpm235 said:

I hate it due to the politics behind it. Government, dancing to the tune of the Greta gang eco loony tunes, over privileged hippies gluing themselves to the country's infrastructure and vandalising works of art. Government accepts their idiocy as facts, then forces it onto us. It's this that I don't like, not the actual EV's. If you can afford an EV, and can plug it in at home, best of luck to you, crack on and enjoy it. It's the forcing of EV onto to people who can neither afford it, or have somewhere to plug it in (like me for example), that overheats my urine.

I think we've lost the plot in the West. If people want to glue themselves to things they should try it in some of the major fossil fuel producing & consuming countries such as China, Russia etc and see what reaction they get. They won't because they know exactly what would happen.

The irony is that China will be more than happy to supply us with all of the EVs we can buy, all produced using electricity generated in their 1,100 coal fired power stations. In Russia meanwhile there is apparently even a school of thought that they should actively try to produce as much CO2 as possible to warm Siberia up and make it less inhospitable!! How do you compete with that?

 

 

 

[AndrueC]

5 hours ago, yossarian247 said:

My hate is for the government forcing things on us, pure and simple. They should let technology and the free market decide IMHO. I don't hate EVs as such.

But if the government doesn't provide the impetuous no-one will change. Look at the concept of a CVT gearbox. Much better for efficiency and even for performance but left to owner's to choose and for a while it'd all but died out.

I think EVs are the future. They are already better in raw performance (not that I care about that) and the Battery issues are almost solved. They are solved for most people with access to a charger at home. The only weak point for batteries is capacity and charging points for long journeys but most journeys are short so for most people it doesn't matter.

The only people who think EVs are going away are delusional petrol heads. An EV with an appropriate charging infrastructure to support it (most crucially one that helps people charge more frequently rather than it being a weekly thing as it is with petrol) is a far superior solution.

[yossarian247]

11 minutes ago, AndrueC said:

But if the government doesn't provide the impetuous no-one will change. Look at the concept of a CVT gear box. Much better for efficiency and even for performance but left to owner's to choice and for a while it'd all but died out.

I think EVs are the future. They are already better in raw performance (not that I care about that) and the battery issues are all but solved. Charging issues can be solved with a bit more investment and joined up thinking.

The only people who think EVs are going away are delusional petrol heads. An EV with an appropriate charging infrastructure to support it (most crucially one that helps people charge more frequently rather than it being a weekly thing as it is with petrol) is a far superior solution.

Did the government ban manual gearboxes in order to encourage people to buy CVTs? Or was it that the technology of CVTs improved to the point that they were reliable and more suitable for widespread use due to (mainly) privately owned motor manufacturers developing them in a free market, and therefore became more attractive to consumers?

What the previous government actually did was to encourage the take up of diesels! Perhaps that's an indication that government should butt out of such things?

[Cyker]

I think people would have slowly migrated over to EVs naturally once they had attained the level of general-purpose utility that ICE cars do - Especially for people that can charge at home, they are incredibly convenient: Wake up, have max range! No need to ever visit a fuel station or be worried about fuel shortages etc. And if you have solar panels too then you have even less to worry about! And aside from sports applications, they *are* much nicer to drive than a normal car.

I like to compare with how diesel took off - The government didn't do any of this, e.g. try and ban petrol engines or set a deadline where they wouldn't be manufactured again; The only government incentive diesels had was that VED was cheaper for them because of the CO2 grading, and some advertising saying they were better for the environment (hahaha). Many in the automotive press called BS on this, notably people like Clarkson, but the attention they got was enough and people tried them then started buying them en masse because they were *genuinely* better than petrol for the stuff most people care about: They were cheaper to run, more reliable, more economical, and nicer to drive with all that low-down torque.

Before that, nobody bought diesels except for long distance travelling sales people, and they tended to have a terrible reputation for being slow and gross, but when people found the new turbocharged ones were actually pretty darn quick and far less smokey than was previously believed, they flocked to them.

 

The problem at the moment is they're trying to force us onto the EV equivalent of a pre-turbo diesel - Good for some but not the majority. Like diesel, there's something missing; In the case of diesels it was the turbo; in the case of EV's it's batteries that don't suck - and this just creates animosity. Especially as all the arguments for EVs mainly revolve around that they're good for the environment, but this is clearly a massive and total lie just as it was for diesel cars - The fact is no new car is going to be a net good for the environment; Yeah so they don't produce any CO2 at point of use, big whoop - Look at the materials, energy and emissions that goes into their production and the production and construction of the facilities - factories etc. - that were required to build them. If anyone believes that's net zero, I have a recycled organic vegan carbon-free bridge I'd like to sell you

 

Edit: Also CVTs (At least *real* CVTs) didn't take off because they suck - They're fragile, hard to maintain, ruinous when they break, and just aren't generally fun.

The only exception to this is Toyota (And Subaru)  - They are literally the only manufacturers who've made reliable CVTs, and while they can be economical, they still suffer from downsides like not being able to handle high torque demands, which is why they either can't tow, or are overbuilt to be able to tow.

Still, IMHO they are the 2nd least awful automatic transmission, the best being a locking torque converter, but this is just my personal opinion.

Also note I'm not counting the HSD/PSD/eCVT/Toyota hybrid drive as a CVT or autobox as, again in my opinion, it doesn't really count - Yes it has a planetary gear system, but by itself it doesn't provide any differing gear ratios - it is essentially just a differential to link MG1, MG2/wheels and the ICE together. The simulated gear ratios are solely down to MG1!

[TonyHSD]

The biggest Battery problem is not the charging or charging infrastructure , it’s the chemistry, how they were made, how they are recycled and the problem number 1 the weight and size. The electric motor is the future no doubt about it, the batteries in this form aren’t. Perhaps a fuel  cell, bio fuels cells or ice, other energy source and electric motor as propulsion seems to be more sensible. I like evs, I don’t hate them at all. But they are just not competitive and not capable enough to fully replace ice vehicles. Currently only only make sense evs to be super small cars and those called micro mobility, e scooters etc. 

[Mojo1010]

How did this turn into a EV yes/no? 🙂

2023 gen5 corolla if OP's budget stretch that far in the future. 

[Cyker]

Yeah, the Battery is literally the only thing holding back EVs - Everything else on an EV is old well understood tech; Electric motors are at least as advanced as engines, and we refined motor control etc. long ago because of their use in industrial applications - The tech in an EV is no more advanced than what goes into an industrial CnC machine.

The only thing is the Battery - We've never had to develop it beyond what it's currently at until now; The thing that really pushed NiMH and then Li+ development initially was laptops, but these have also been made vastly more efficient so the pressures on the cells wasn't so great so R&D stagnated (It's mad my old 9-cell Thinkpad has less runtime than modern laptops on 3 cells!).

But now there's a need and pressure for improvement again, and we have a lot of catching up to do.

[Cyker]

2 minutes ago, Mojo1010 said:

How did this turn into a EV yes/no? 🙂

2023 gen5 corolla if OP's budget stretch that far in the future. 

The Traditional Thread Hijack!

Look I haven't posted a gigantically long thread hijacking post for a while so give me some eek run frosty's coming!  *flees*

[Mojo1010]

5 minutes ago, Cyker said:

The Traditional Thread Hijack!

Look I haven't posted a gigantically long thread hijacking post for a while so give me some eek run frosty's coming!  *flees*

Be careful he might frost your balls at this time of year 🤣 or his?!?!

[Yugguy1970]

14 hours ago, Mojo1010 said:

How did this turn into a EV yes/no? 🙂

2023 gen5 corolla if OP's budget stretch that far in the future. 

That's a very good point.   I completely agree only can it be hydrogen fuel cell hybrid please. 😁

And get the 2.0 obviously.  🤣

[Spagboll]

Hi everyone! Thanks for the feedback & discussion, honestly really appreciated! Any time I ask a question on here, I always get detailed answers - and in this case, a full on debate! 

I'm going to give it a few years and will see where I'm at then. At the mo, I'm mostly working from home so don't need too much power for motorway and my main conviction was having Apple Carplay & some safety featrues, but the new 2023 features/improvements just look great.

I'll probably to wait till interest rates ease (if they actually do) and see what the used market is like in 2-3 years - I'm in the middle of buying a house so will need a few years to save up again! In the mean time, I may just get an Auris/CT200h for my town and ocassional motorway driving.

In terms of EVs, I think I'm with most people in this thread - they have their place, but they aren't the answer. 

Again, thank y'all and have a great Xmas!