Engine replacement under warranty

[gazooracer]

Does anyone know here how long Toyota takes to grant a new engine, if blown under warranty?

The car is still under manufacturer's warranty for another two years and hasn't even covered 50k yet also has complete Toyota main dealer service history, it went to the local Toyota dealership (for service & injectors replacement as it was misfiring) prior to the engine failure and dealership told me after assessing the engine carnage that they couldn't find anything external which could have caused engine to fail as Toyota advised them to follow the process of the claim and pass them the required info about the engine. Now it has been two weeks, the car is on their ramp with everything in the lurch and nothing other than waiting for Toyota 's decision.

 

[Roy124]

Two weeks and you are about to enter the closed season.

[TonyHSD]

That’s really an annoying situation and unfortunately it may take a long time to get it sorted. These engines are built in Poland, but they probably have some in stock in uk however the paperwork process regarding the warranty claim is most likely what holding them back. Maybe you will need to arrange a courtesy car of some sort either from dealer, your insurance or rent a car. 
After all is done and if takes more than 3 weeks it will be a good idea to fully charge your 12v Battery unless you do long miles every day. Just to be on a safer side and no further negative surprises. 
Good luck. 

[Roy124]

3 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

it will be a good idea to fully charge your 12v battery

The car is on their ramp.  Only chance of a recharge is after it is repaired.

[TonyHSD]

10 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

The car is on their ramp.  Only chance of a recharge is after it is repaired.

Yes, that’s what I meant. Take the car home after new engine been fitted and fully charge the Battery, because likely they will jump start it like they do in most other cases while they have a car for over two weeks. Every car dealer, car garage or car parking have one thing in common, it’s a Battery jump pack and charger, we know why. 👍🪫

[gazooracer]

Rang Toyota head office this morning, got told the concerned officer is not available to give any update on the case, was told to wait for a phone call from them which might never happen.

But I am really not sure whether I should keep the car once the new engine is fitted or sell it. As injectors destroyed the engine once it might do it again. 

I would appreciate everybody's input here on the matter, I have never tried E5 fuel in the past though.

[Parts-King]

I have never seen it happen to a newer RAV, I would say it is very rare and not likely to happen again. If I were you I would be onto the dealer daily, nothing like the customer ringing you every day to focus the attention. 

[TonyHSD]

55 minutes ago, gazooracer said:

Rang Toyota head office this morning, got told the concerned officer is not available to give any update on the case, was told to wait for a phone call from them which might never happen.

But I am really not sure whether I should keep the car once the new engine is fitted or sell it. As injectors destroyed the engine once it might do it again. 

I would appreciate everybody's input here on the matter, I have never tried E5 fuel in the past though.

This is only you to decide whether to keep it or sell it and move on. 
If you really like the car but you have any concerns about the possibility of future returns of these issues which is unlikely but not totally excluded you may look into trading in for a newer 2023 gen 5 hybrid 1.8 with 140bhp. 
For the e5 it is a better fuel because has less amount of alcohol and also higher octane number which is to prevent exactly detonating burning and misfire, plus at a least on paper has extra cleaning additives, I don’t know what needs to be clean on a new cars but anyway. I have old Auris hybrid 1.8 that  does not like e10 at all. It does not matter the octane numbers because with both drives fine but with e10 the engine is noisier, has less power, and slightly less efficient, but this is insignificant.
What I noticed though with different fuels that those cheaper supermarket no matter if e5 or e10 sometimes on cold starts the engine is misfiring and cause loud and bad knocking. With branded fuels both e10 or e5 there are no misfires, just the slight difference in performance and noise between both e’s. 
 

[gazooracer]

1 hour ago, TonyHSD said:

This is only you to decide whether to keep it or sell it and move on. 
If you really like the car but you have any concerns about the possibility of future returns of these issues which is unlikely but not totally excluded you may look into trading in for a newer 2023 gen 5 hybrid 1.8 with 140bhp. 
For the e5 it is a better fuel because has less amount of alcohol and also higher octane number which is to prevent exactly detonating burning and misfire, plus at a least on paper has extra cleaning additives, I don’t know what needs to be clean on a new cars but anyway. I have old Auris hybrid 1.8 that  does not like e10 at all. It does not matter the octane numbers because with both drives fine but with e10 the engine is noisier, has less power, and slightly less efficient, but this is insignificant.
What I noticed though with different fuels that those cheaper supermarket no matter if e5 or e10 sometimes on cold starts the engine is misfiring and cause loud and bad knocking. With branded fuels both e10 or e5 there are no misfires, just the slight difference in performance and noise between both e’s. 
 

What brands fuel should I stick to do you think?

[Parts-King]

I use bog standard supermarket fuel, I do about 15K a year, never had a problem with any Hybrid, no knocking or any problems, stick it in and drive it

[ThomasL]

1 hour ago, Parts-King said:

I use bog standard supermarket fuel, I do about 15K a year, never had a problem with any Hybrid, no knocking or any problems, stick it in and drive it

Good to know. Out of curiosity how many miles have your cars done when you replace them? (And you probably wouldn't know the answer to this but how long do they last without problems after that?)

[Parts-King]

They get replaced around 9 months old, so about 9-10K. We have had one or two injector failures, but they don't blow engines up when they fail, usually just a misfire, replace one injector and away you go, never had an injector go on one of my own cars 

[Guest]

23 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

fully charge your 12v battery

@gazooracer Make sure you ask Toyota to charge your Battery - saves you the hassle and the wear on your alternator. They have the kit to do it so I can't see them refusing.

On 12/18/2023 at 5:44 AM, gazooracer said:

Now it has been two weeks, the car is on their ramp with everything in the lurch and nothing other than waiting for Toyota 's decision.

Don't be afraid to ask for ETAs or a contact at Toyota. Even message Toyota UK on FB and ask for a case number and regularly keep checking for updates. Even if the claims team person has someone from customer care regularly checking in with them, that might push you to the top of the list / their 'to-do's and speed up the process. 

Are they providing you with a courtesy car in the meantime? They 100% should be. 

[gazooracer]

2 hours ago, SB1500 said:

@gazooracer Make sure you ask Toyota to charge your battery - saves you the hassle and the wear on your alternator. They have the kit to do it so I can't see them refusing.

Don't be afraid to ask for ETAs or a contact at Toyota. Even message Toyota UK on FB and ask for a case number and regularly keep checking for updates. Even if the claims team person has someone from customer care regularly checking in with them, that might push you to the top of the list / their 'to-do's and speed up the process. 

Are they providing you with a courtesy car in the meantime? They 100% should be. 

Thanks a lot for your time and such a useful advice. I will do that.

Toyota hasn't given me anything so far, they said courtesy car isn't part of the warranty policy but one of their advisors had promised me a curtosey car in the start so the delaership gave me a little Aygo manual a week and a half later saying that they're giving me out of good will.

[bazza121]

On 12/18/2023 at 4:12 PM, gazooracer said:

What brands fuel should I stick to do you think?

Supermarket fuel is exactly the same as branded fuels despite what some people believe the same tanker that delivers to a supermarket will akso deliver to esso etc so dont worry.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, gazooracer said:

Thanks a lot for your time and such a useful advice. I will do that.

Toyota hasn't given me anything so far, they said courtesy car isn't part of the warranty policy but one of their advisors had promised me a curtosey car in the start so the delaership gave me a little Aygo manual a week and a half later saying that they're giving me out of good will.

It might not be 'policy', but it's certainly a cop out excuse that.  I'm not sure if this is true or not, but be sure to tell them that last time you had (another brand) car, that courtesy cars were provided and you're a bit surprised that a brand like Toyota would see this as not included and thinks that's a suitable experience for their customers.. especially if you're actively paying off the car, and getting no use from it. Unacceptable. 

Or just make up a situation with a friend who has X brand car and has had courtesy cars. Which is true, I had a Fiat under new car warranty in 2019 and they gave me courtesy cars each time. If Fiat can afford to do this... why can't Toyota..  I'd be making that point to them.  

Usually with things like this, the dealer franchise blames Toyota.. then you reach out to Toyota, and they blame the franchise.. 'it's their discretion' ... 'based on availability'... 'due to covid we no longer' .. all the usual excuses come out of the woodwork 

[haelewyn]

About your question : get rid of it or not.

Extremely small chance it happens again. But... maybe you could keep it as long as it's under warranty (2 more years ?) and see how your trust has evolved ? 

You would drive the car risk free and .. generally the longer you keep a car, the lower your loss per year on it gets ?

[Ambamzzz]

On 12/18/2023 at 5:44 AM, gazooracer said:

Does anyone know here how long Toyota takes to grant a new engine, if blown under warranty?

The car is still under manufacturer's warranty for another two years and hasn't even covered 50k yet also has complete Toyota main dealer service history, it went to the local Toyota dealership (for service & injectors replacement as it was misfiring) prior to the engine failure and dealership told me after assessing the engine carnage that they couldn't find anything external which could have caused engine to fail as Toyota advised them to follow the process of the claim and pass them the required info about the engine. Now it has been two weeks, the car is on their ramp with everything in the lurch and nothing other than waiting for Toyota 's decision.

 

2022 Corolla hybrid 2.0 l, went in for injector replacement on the 14th dec after misfiring for a few weeks on idle , mileage was 23k , got the car back on the 15th and the engine blew on the 18th while accelerating down slip road, took it to Toyota who said they would replace the engine after investigating but did not accept that they could of caused the issue , the rod bearing had gone through the engine and blown out the bottom end, long story short I got the car back today and all seems fine touch wood , however they should be giving you a courtesy car as standard as they need to keep you mobile , unfortunately the only way I could get any updates was physically going into the dealership once a week as the phone system is terrible, I would ask to deal with the manager which seems to get things moving and mention potential legal action , essentially I had to badger them regularly and put a compliant through to Toyota to get this done in 3 weeks during the Christmas period. Although it’s frustrating it seems to be the only way to get things done , the longest part was waiting for Toyota to deliver the engine , I would also get this all down in writing from them as it will help they seem, also it’s worth asking about goodwill I got my next 3 services free of charge from them due the headache I have had with them. Have been advised by the manager to use e5 as e10 seems to damage the internals injectors etc, I highlighted that it a manufacturing issue however Toyota are reluctant to recall them as they would have a huge law suit on their hands. They would rather let your car break down and treat it as one off anomaly , however the more iv researched this the more examples I’m finding of the same thing happening. I would keep a record of everything and make sure you get the paperwork for the new engine as I will increase the value of your car when you sell it. Long story short you will have to chase them and be persistent to get a quick resolution , if not be prepared to Wait a few months as their ramps are full of paying customers cars

 

hope That helps 

good luck

ak

[Roker]

On 12/18/2023 at 4:12 PM, gazooracer said:

What brands fuel should I stick to do you think?

I noted recently my mpg had gone down about 10 mpg with certain companies, I blamed the cold weather. Recently I filled up with Texaco because I reasoned they make their own petrol and it should be good, result my mpg is almost back to 60mpg

[yossarian247]

On 1/6/2024 at 3:13 AM, Ambamzzz said:

2022 Corolla hybrid 2.0 l, went in for injector replacement on the 14th dec after misfiring for a few weeks on idle , mileage was 23k , got the car back on the 15th and the engine blew on the 18th while accelerating down slip road, took it to Toyota who said they would replace the engine after investigating but did not accept that they could of caused the issue , the rod bearing had gone through the engine and blown out the bottom end, long story short I got the car back today and all seems fine touch wood , however they should be giving you a courtesy car as standard as they need to keep you mobile , unfortunately the only way I could get any updates was physically going into the dealership once a week as the phone system is terrible, I would ask to deal with the manager which seems to get things moving and mention potential legal action , essentially I had to badger them regularly and put a compliant through to Toyota to get this done in 3 weeks during the Christmas period. Although it’s frustrating it seems to be the only way to get things done , the longest part was waiting for Toyota to deliver the engine , I would also get this all down in writing from them as it will help they seem, also it’s worth asking about goodwill I got my next 3 services free of charge from them due the headache I have had with them. Have been advised by the manager to use e5 as e10 seems to damage the internals injectors etc, I highlighted that it a manufacturing issue however Toyota are reluctant to recall them as they would have a huge law suit on their hands. They would rather let your car break down and treat it as one off anomaly , however the more iv researched this the more examples I’m finding of the same thing happening. I would keep a record of everything and make sure you get the paperwork for the new engine as I will increase the value of your car when you sell it. Long story short you will have to chase them and be persistent to get a quick resolution , if not be prepared to Wait a few months as their ramps are full of paying customers cars

 

hope That helps 

good luck

ak

The issue with a potential recall I think is that, a) Toyota don't appear to know for certain what the cause is, and b) They don't have a definitive solution.

No point in recalling cars with 4 (or 8 ) fully functioning injectors, just to replace them with 4 identical new injectors which may or may not then fail anyway.

I note that you were told to use e5 and avoid e10, whereas someone else on here was told to do the opposite by their dealer!

My car has an occasional slight misfire on idle, but I don't see the point of taking it in to have an injector replaced, then either the replacement or another injector potentially failing a few thousand miles down the line. As long as it doesn't get any worse I'm just going to live with it for now until (hopefully) Toyota come up with a permanent solution.

[Devon Aygo]

On 12/18/2023 at 5:44 AM, gazooracer said:

Does anyone know here how long Toyota takes to grant a new engine, if blown under warranty?

The car is still under manufacturer's warranty for another two years and hasn't even covered 50k yet also has complete Toyota main dealer service history, it went to the local Toyota dealership (for service & injectors replacement as it was misfiring) prior to the engine failure and dealership told me after assessing the engine carnage that they couldn't find anything external which could have caused engine to fail as Toyota advised them to follow the process of the claim and pass them the required info about the engine. Now it has been two weeks, the car is on their ramp with everything in the lurch and nothing other than waiting for Toyota 's decision.

 

The answer is less than 24 hours ( working week, weekends and bank holidays excluded ) assuming your dealer can provide:

• A signed/dated job card with your complaint on it,
• the correct mileage noted on the job card,
• A write up from a qualified technician containing what Toyota refer to as CCR
• Service history where servicing could have a bearing on the claim

1. Condition; what has been found.
2. Cause; why the condition occurred and what makes it a manufacturing defect.
3. Remedy; What is proposed to fix the issue, in the case of a "new engine" Toyota will require cost comparisons showing its is more economic to install a new engine over individual replacement parts.

• Photos of the damage showing cause and outcome.

Assuming your dealer can provide these there should be no delay in gaining authorisation 

[Niky]

Seeing this video this engine should be very reliable and there shouldn't be any injector issues - this guy really likes the double injector system. Its very interesting to understand what has happened with your car, and why?

What oil are the dealers using? I never get anything on paper what oil they have put, but only a health check report. I've red here few people saying, dealers have used 0w20(obviously because it's cheaper) and saying "its fine". Never questioned my dealer, but will do next time. Do you/we all know what oil is in our engines?

Can the E10 petrol be blamed for a blown engine?

 

[haelewyn]

If 0w16 versus 0w20 or E5 vs E10 petrol would make such a big difference in your engine breaking or not.... I bet a lot more would go wrong and toyota would have to replace as many engines as renault and Peugeot do. 

Renault and Peugeot failures were simply due to design flaws, by the way.

[gazooracer]

On 1/6/2024 at 3:13 AM, Ambamzzz said:

2022 Corolla hybrid 2.0 l, went in for injector replacement on the 14th dec after misfiring for a few weeks on idle , mileage was 23k , got the car back on the 15th and the engine blew on the 18th while accelerating down slip road, took it to Toyota who said they would replace the engine after investigating but did not accept that they could of caused the issue , the rod bearing had gone through the engine and blown out the bottom end, long story short I got the car back today and all seems fine touch wood , however they should be giving you a courtesy car as standard as they need to keep you mobile , unfortunately the only way I could get any updates was physically going into the dealership once a week as the phone system is terrible, I would ask to deal with the manager which seems to get things moving and mention potential legal action , essentially I had to badger them regularly and put a compliant through to Toyota to get this done in 3 weeks during the Christmas period. Although it’s frustrating it seems to be the only way to get things done , the longest part was waiting for Toyota to deliver the engine , I would also get this all down in writing from them as it will help they seem, also it’s worth asking about goodwill I got my next 3 services free of charge from them due the headache I have had with them. Have been advised by the manager to use e5 as e10 seems to damage the internals injectors etc, I highlighted that it a manufacturing issue however Toyota are reluctant to recall them as they would have a huge law suit on their hands. They would rather let your car break down and treat it as one off anomaly , however the more iv researched this the more examples I’m finding of the same thing happening. I would keep a record of everything and make sure you get the paperwork for the new engine as I will increase the value of your car when you sell it. Long story short you will have to chase them and be persistent to get a quick resolution , if not be prepared to Wait a few months as their ramps are full of paying customers cars

 

hope That helps 

good luck

ak

Hi,

Thank you for your input,

I just had a call from the Inchcape Toyota dealership after 5 weeks, that they have ordered the parts for the engine, the lower block & the broken bits Conrod etc whereas the service advisor said to me I will be given a brand new or refurbished engine complete unit.

Manager said to me in the previous phone call Toyota has refused to approve the engine under warranty because Toyota thinks it's workshop's fault that engine went on the car.

I don't know who to report the garage or what to do at this point, cuz in my eyes, changing parts on the same unit will only repeat the cycle of entire catastrophic situation again. They couldn't find the fault first, they can't find the fault this time either.

[Cyker]

They can't blame the fuel unless they can prove it was contaminated in some way a'la Italy and its chlorine contamination scandal.

E5 and E10 are the mandated fuels, and if the engine can't run on them reliably it would be classified as not fit for purpose and they would be liable for selling an engine that did not comply with standards.

 

I wonder, does anyone know if there an ombudsman for this sort of thing who can step in to mediate this...?