Toyota Safety Sense... Which version?

[Nick72]

So I'm totally confused as to what version is on my 2021 R4P Dynamic Premium. And even more confused by the Toyota UK website for the R4P, GR Sport. 

Anyone have any ideas and what the differences are? And what's on what?

TBH I find the adaptive cruise pretty good and use it all the time. The rear cross traffic (which even works for people walking behind the back of you as you are reversing as some do in kamikaze fashion at night in the dark whilst wearing black) and blind spot indicators also welcome and used all the time. Everything else I guess is under the surface and hope we never need to see them in operation?

If the lane following could be improved I'd definitely take that because that's hideous versus every other car I've had with this capability. Better after lowering the sensitivity to avoid the ping pong but still just veers off now and then and is totally confused by exit lane markings on the motorway in my own experience. I sometimes switch it on if I need to stay more alert 😂.

 

Penny for thoughts?

[Paul john]

Most likely v2. 
the change over from 1 to 2 on the prius was in 2019 for the facelift. 
 

[philip42h]

See the attached for a detailed understanding of everything: 

TSS_Applicability_Chart.pdf

It suggests that I have TSS 2.0; as will you in a 2021 PHEV.

A 2023 PHEV would have TSS 2.5+, while the bZ4X enjoys TSS 3.0 so there's a good chance that a 2024 PHEV GR-Sport will get TSS 3.0 since it states, "the full RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid range adopts a more comprehensive Toyota Safety Sense package of safety and driver assistance systems, including Emergency Steering Assist and an enhanced Pre-Collision System".

I trust that is all clear so far?

Now TSS used to be an option that I could decide not to pay for, but these days it is an imposed standard, so we really need to work out how to live with / make the best of what we get! 🙂

On mine, the pre-collision system tells me that I'm going to crash but doesn't do anything about it - I have completed the destructive test yet.

On my wife's 2021 CH-R - so with TSS 2.5 - the pre-collision system hits the brakes very firmly before I can get too close to the back wall of the garage. And her Lane Departure Alert with Steering Assist (LDA w/SA) is 'on' by default - so she uses it all the time - whereas mine is 'off' by default so I never use it at all.

With each generation, it seems to get 'better' and impose itself upon the driver just a little more ... 😉

Edit: see also:

CFA_TSS_3.pdf

 

[Nick72]

3 hours ago, philip42h said:

See the attached for a detailed understanding of everything: 

TSS_Applicability_Chart.pdf 196.28 kB · 1 download

It suggests that I have TSS 2.0; as will you in a 2021 PHEV.

A 2023 PHEV would have TSS 2.5+, while the bZ4X enjoys TSS 3.0 so there's a good chance that a 2024 PHEV GR-Sport will get TSS 3.0 since it states, "the full RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid range adopts a more comprehensive Toyota Safety Sense package of safety and driver assistance systems, including Emergency Steering Assist and an enhanced Pre-Collision System".

I trust that is all clear so far?

Now TSS used to be an option that I could decide not to pay for, but these days it is an imposed standard, so we really need to work out how to live with / make the best of what we get! 🙂

On mine, the pre-collision system tells me that I'm going to crash but doesn't do anything about it - I have completed the destructive test yet.

On my wife's 2021 CH-R - so with TSS 2.5 - the pre-collision system hits the brakes very firmly before I can get too close to the back wall of the garage. And her Lane Departure Alert with Steering Assist (LDA w/SA) is 'on' by default - so she uses it all the time - whereas mine is 'off' by default so I never use it at all.

With each generation, it seems to get 'better' and impose itself upon the driver just a little more ... 😉

Edit: see also:

CFA_TSS_3.pdf 3.01 MB · 3 downloads

 

Thanks Philip that's very clear and helpful. The one thing I was confused about is the emergency braking on mine does apply the brakes. I've experienced it when someone pulled in front of me and slammed on and I was too slow to react beyond the BRAKE red warning on the HUD and the beeps.

[robo1]

13 hours ago, philip42h said:

On mine, the pre-collision system tells me that I'm going to crash but doesn't do anything about it - I have completed the destructive test yet.

I always thought the brakes were applied and it appears to be the case watching a Toyota marketing video .

 

[philip42h]

2 minutes ago, robo1 said:

I always thought the brakes were applied and it appears to be the case watching a Toyota marketing video .

Perhaps I need to get a stack of cardboard boxes and try a little harder ... ? 🙂

As I said, the wife's C-HR (TSS 2.5) applies the brakes before I can reach the back wall of the garage. My RAV4 (TSS 2.0) will let me drive to touch the back wall of the garage. It may or may not apply the brakes if I were to drive in faster, but, for obvious reasons, I have chosen not to try that experiment.

I dimly recall folk reporting that the system (or earlier versions of the system) would apply the brakes before releasing them to allow a low-speed collision ...

[robo1]

According to the video V2 doesn’t work at speeds below 6 mph or above 112mph but agree won’t try it out in the garage. 
https://youtu.be/nL4_cYGdASs

 

[Nick72]

1 hour ago, philip42h said:

Perhaps I need to get a stack of cardboard boxes and try a little harder ... ? 🙂

As I said, the wife's C-HR (TSS 2.5) applies the brakes before I can reach the back wall of the garage. My RAV4 (TSS 2.0) will let me drive to touch the back wall of the garage. It may or may not apply the brakes if I were to drive in faster, but, for obvious reasons, I have chosen not to try that experiment.

I dimly recall folk reporting that the system (or earlier versions of the system) would apply the brakes before releasing them to allow a low-speed collision ...

I think that's it, as robo says, there's a speed threshold you have to be above to avoid it constantly alerting and braking when you're just trying to parallel park or whatever. 

I seem to recall it beeped flashed BRAKE in red in a big box on the HUD, then beeped louder, then slammed on automatically. All way faster than my feeble reactions. Apart from the single finger salute given to the other motorist when I passed them. It was totally unnecessary what they did and no indicators either. 

Definitely a worthwhile feature. 

On one of the later versions, from what I've read on the docs provided, I believe it gently starts to apply the brakes in sone situations as a pre emptive risk reduction. I'm not sure I like this idea and would likely switch it off (if I can) since it presumes to know what I'm thinking and planning to do.

I'm also worried that I'd be unable to run down a terrorist with an AK-47 and explosive vest, if the need arose!

[NASY]

I don't think any of these systems which override the driver can be a good idea overall. The system intelligence is way below that of the driver, well in most cases anyway, so reacting to more sensed information and given intent on the part of the driver has to be prioritised in my view.

[Scottyat5]

All you need to know about which version of Toyota Safety Sense your vehicle has.

TSS_Applicability_Chart.pdf (toyota.com)

[Nick72]

47 minutes ago, Scottyat5 said:

All you need to know about which version of Toyota Safety Sense your vehicle has.

TSS_Applicability_Chart.pdf (toyota.com)

Useful but... Unfortunately not really. It's an American version by the look of it. RAV4 Prime reference is the give away, along with Camry references. And doesn't include 2024 models.

We could argue that any R4P including GR Sport in 2024 won't have the TSS at a higher version than the the R4P 2023 listed. But, that's another assumption I'd like to bottom out.

[Torrox]

11 hours ago, Nick72 said:

Useful but... Unfortunately not really. It's an American version by the look of it. RAV4 Prime reference is the give away, along with Camry references. And doesn't include 2024 models.

We could argue that any R4P including GR Sport in 2024 won't have the TSS at a higher version than the the R4P 2023 listed. But, that's another assumption I'd like to bottom out.

I asked the dealer this question and they are certain that the Rav4 GR sport plugin hybrid has TSS ver. 2.5. I have also asked about encryption of can bus but they haven't gotten back to me.

[philip42h]

15 hours ago, Nick72 said:

It's an American version by the look of it. RAV4 Prime reference is the give away, along with Camry references. And doesn't include 2024 models.

It is indeed a US document, dated 9/20/22, and all the model references are to US grades. So, it anticipates what will be fitted within the 2023 model year and tells us nothing about 2024.

However, it does map the evolution of TSS and it is unlikely (rather than impossible) that different TSS versions would be applied in different geographies.

So, a MY23 RAV4 Prime / PHEV will have TSS 2.5+. A MY24 equivalent will certainly be at least TSS2.5+ which is, in effect, the baseline for a MY24 GR Sport.

We could do with sight of an updated Applicability Chart - I've looked but haven't found one yet ...