Bad Lux?

[Bper]

This morning we decided to go shopping very early to avoid the Christmas rush, it was pitch black when we left and once I turned the lights on it just reminded me again of how bad the Auris lights are.

Fortunately we didn't need to go far but I really struggled to see the road clearly with the rain on the windscreen and the wipers going. Having read previous posts on this problem, I am no longer prepared to leave this any longer.

It is downright dangerous to drive a car with such poor headlights so in the New Year I will change them. But will changing these to the best available and legal bulbs actually make a vast difference? If the light level is not significantly better then I will have no choice but to reluctantly change the car.😡

 

[Primus1]

Just buy some night vision goggles…🤪

[Bper]

3 minutes ago, Primus1 said:

Just buy some night vision goggles…🤪

Funny you should mention that, I asked a couple of local opticians about the Zeiss ones and was quoted over £200. Now I wouldn't mind but you can't try them without buying and I was concerned that if they didn't work it would be money wasted.

[Haliotis]

I have read an article on the www.autoexpress.co.uk website, and this gives a rational approach to the subject of night-driving glasses.  First of all, it is stated that there is no  scientific proof that they work.  Whilst the yellow tinting can reduce glare, it also has the effect of lowering visibility in general - similar to wearing sunglasses but with much less severity.  I have concluded that these glasses may not be worth the cost of purchasing them.

I did move from VW cars to Toyota, because I felt that my Touran and Caravelle vehicles had poor headlights. To me, my C-HR headlights do seem somewhat better.

A car-bulb specialist dealer once explained to me why oncoming headlights, even on dipped beam, appeared superior to my own car headlights.  He said with oncoming vehicles the reflected light from the road surface was bouncing towards me, whereas my own headlight beams were reflected away from me, and so would appear dimmer.

I think the problem with car headlights is that (a) manufacturers have been installing brighter lights in the belief that they give greater safety, and (b) many drivers have installed more powerful bulbs to achieve vision superiority.  In the case of (a), drivers with these powerful lights drive faster at night, thus negating any gains in safety. In (b), many DIY drivers end up with unlawful headlight arrangements and/or cause their headlights to dazzle due to being badly adjusted.

Further problems occur due to some drivers not dipping their headlights for approaching traffic.  I keep mine permanently set on ‘auto’, and they simply go into dip immediately the lights of an oncoming vehicle are detected. They also go into dip when there are street lights along a road.

[Cyker]

I think  a lot of people with LEDs/HIDs etc. also leave their headlights set at 0 dip - Supposedly *all* high-power lights have an auto-leveling system, but either this system doesn't work or this just isn't true.

Given my Mk4 doesn't have an auto-levelling system and has ridiculously bright headlamps, I think the latter.

I reckon if everyone with LED lights set their dip to 1 (i.e. 2 clicks down) then the problem would be greatly reduced.

 

The overall problem is just that headlights are just unnecessarily bright, esp. for urban use. I can't even tell if my insane headlights are on or not in most places in London because almost every street lamp is already some high-powered lamp or LED, but many cars have even more powerful lights which are brighter than those - It's crazy.

What this means is we can only see where the light shines - Outside of this is just impenetrable darkness because the contrast gap is now so big it's outside the range a normal eye can process.

It's something I noticed between my Mk2 and the Mk4 - My Mk2 had standard halogens and was far dimmer, but when driving on pitch black country roads, I could see much more to the sides because my iris could stay open and gather more light.

With the Mk4 on the same road, I can only see what the headlight shine on - Anything outside that is just black, because my iris is a pinhole to avoid frying my retina from the LED light, and the low ambient light is lost.

[Primus1]

14 hours ago, Bper said:

Funny you should mention that, I asked a couple of local opticians about the Zeiss ones and was quoted over £200. Now I wouldn't mind but you can't try them without buying and I was concerned that if they didn't work it would be money wasted.

I actually meant proper nvg  military spec ones, then you wouldn’t need your headlights at all..🤭🤭🫣

[Haliotis]

As an indication of how dangerous some car lights can be, I nearly ran a person down.  A car coming towards me had extremely bright headlights. As it came very close, a pedestrian walked across the road from the far side after it had passed.  Even with my own headlights on dip, the road beyond this car was just a dense blackness.  Then I saw something white moving at ground level. At first I thought it might be a cat, but I still braked hard.  It was a person dressed all in dark clothing, and the only thing that made them (just) visible was that they appeared to be wearing white trainers, or similar.  That person completed crossing the road, and I don’t think they even realised how close they had come to being hit.

I was shocked to think how close I had come to mowing someone down - the experience has stayed with me, and now in similar circumstances I always slow down, ready to brake hard, until I am certain that the road is clear.

Remember the old TV ad; wear something white at night?  I reckon that advice applies more than every now!

[Mojo1010]

Optiwhite, Hella and a few other 160% bulbs will improve it. Halogen on projector is bad. Got led on mine set it at 1 on the leveling dial, when hid were on my MK3 is was set to 1.5 as those lights were 2-3x more lumens that current led. 

6000k temp on led is not good, again manufacturer go with trend, 4300-5000k are the best. Really don't like 6k temp on my car's led. 

[Cyker]

29 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

As an indication of how dangerous some car lights can be, I nearly ran a person down.  A car coming towards me had extremely bright headlights. As it came very close, a pedestrian walked across the road from the far side after it had passed.  Even with my own headlights on dip, the road beyond this car was just a dense blackness.  Then I saw something white moving at ground level. At first I thought it might be a cat, but I still braked hard.  It was a person dressed all in dark clothing, and the only thing that made them (just) visible was that they appeared to be wearing white trainers, or similar.  That person completed crossing the road, and I don’t think they even realised how close they had come to being hit.

I was shocked to think how close I had come to mowing someone down - the experience has stayed with me, and now in similar circumstances I always slow down, ready to brake hard, until I am certain that the road is clear.

Remember the old TV ad; wear something white at night?  I reckon that advice applies more than every now!

This sort of thing is practically a daily occurrence for me in winter - I'm a bit worried how desensitized I've become to all these near-death encounters because they are so common and it's only getting worse.

That highway code rule change has only made it worse, as now instead of all waiting or at least running as they used to, you now get the occasional invisible pedestrian who expects you to give way to them and just strolls across like there isn't a 1100kg vehicle in squashing speed distance of them who clearly is not aware they are there.

The BSM in the car has also saved the lives of several idiot cyclists trying to squeeze past at pinch points with no lights or highvis. It's funny how the 1.5m rule doesn't apply to them.

 

[Haliotis]

“It’s funny how the 1.5m rule doesn’t apply to them.”

Typical of the government with all their knowledge of driving skills (???), whilst drivers are warned to give the 1.5m clearance, there is no instruction for cyclists to behave in such a manner as to avoid the rule being negated by their own failings.

But there you go!  Is it not we drivers who are the sole cause of danger on the roads?  When did you last read in the press that cyclists and pedestrians are also known to be the cause of a percentage of the accidents?

[Yugguy1970]

If you know anyone with a mk4 Golf or similar period Bora have a go in it at night.

You'd think the lights weren't one they're that bad.

 

[Bper]

I recognise that night driving has become a problem for many motorists due to changes in headlight manufacture in particular LED's However I fail to understand why Toyota made vehicles with such s**t headlights.

They are IMHO dangerous, I find them absolutely useless when it is raining and almost non existent on many roads. The peripheral vision is particularly effected when it is raining with oncoming vehicles and when approaching roundabouts with little or no street lights. 

Twice I have had my eyes tested after night driving due to my concerns with this problem. Both times told my vision is well above the legal requirements to drive.

Normally I do not have to drive at night but what concerns me is I shouldn't have to worry about this.

 

[Mojo1010]

It's the headlight unit of projector that is not a good choice for halogen, it would be better on reflector. 

[Bper]

8 hours ago, Cyker said:

I think  a lot of people with LEDs/HIDs etc. also leave their headlights set at 0 dip - Supposedly *all* high-power lights have an auto-leveling system, but either this system doesn't work or this just isn't true.

Given my Mk4 doesn't have an auto-levelling system and has ridiculously bright headlamps, I think the latter.

I reckon if everyone with LED lights set their dip to 1 (i.e. 2 clicks down) then the problem would be greatly reduced.

 

The overall problem is just that headlights are just unnecessarily bright, esp. for urban use. I can't even tell if my insane headlights are on or not in most places in London because almost every street lamp is already some high-powered lamp or LED, but many cars have even more powerful lights which are brighter than those - It's crazy.

What this means is we can only see where the light shines - Outside of this is just impenetrable darkness because the contrast gap is now so big it's outside the range a normal eye can process.

It's something I noticed between my Mk2 and the Mk4 - My Mk2 had standard halogens and was far dimmer, but when driving on pitch black country roads, I could see much more to the sides because my iris could stay open and gather more light.

With the Mk4 on the same road, I can only see what the headlight shine on - Anything outside that is just black, because my iris is a pinhole to avoid frying my retina from the LED light, and the low ambient light is lost.

It sounds like I could do with your headlights if they really are that bright.

[Mojo1010]

Get some higher lumens bulbs, it will help. If it isn't enough then change car with led, it's a big improvement for sure, though it's not so good in the rain. 6000k temp for led is not fit for purpose in the rain, imo. Manufacturers needs to give the options of 4300-5000k temp. 

Had hid 5000k installed on my last car, it was amazing, kept reading many members here had much issue with halogen brightness, felt sorry for those members. 

[Bper]

59 minutes ago, Mojo1010 said:

Get some higher lumens bulbs, it will help. If it isn't enough then change car with led, it's a big improvement for sure, though it's not so good in the rain. 6000k temp for led is not fit for purpose in the rain, imo. Manufacturers needs to give the options of 4300-5000k temp. 

Had hid 5000k installed on my last car, it was amazing, kept reading many members here had much issue with halogen brightness, felt sorry for those members. 

Thanks Mojo, I assume this would pass a MOT OK 

[Mojo1010]

Yes on the higher lumens halogen of course, and yes to HID. 

[Bper]

After the advice I have been given regarding my problem of poor headlights and the various other posts I have read on this subject some ambiguity exists as to the issue of compliance with MOT and possible failure.

I contacted Two Toyota dealers who also carry out MOT and both advised they would get back to me as they could not give a definitive answer as they had not come across this issue before.

This information may help anyone else who may have the same problem and concerns as to MOT compliance.

So I emailed the DVSA and this is their reply .

-------- Forwarded Message --------

Subject: 

RE: Headlights

Date: 

Tue, 9 Jan 2024 10:48:31 +0000

From: 

MOT <MOT@dvsa.gov.uk>

To: 

Good morning

Thank you for your enquiry regarding changing bulbs o headlamps n a vehicle in relation to the MOT. The information you require is in the MOT Inspection Manual here https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles

Section 4 covers lamps with subsection 4.1 on headlamps Specifically 4.1.4 Compliance with requirements :

Existing halogen headlamp units on vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1986 must not be converted to be used with high intensity discharge (HID) or light emitting diode (LED) bulbs. If such a conversion has been done, you must fail the headlamp for light source and lamp not compatible.

This does not refer to complete replacement headlamp units which may be constructed with HID or LED light sources.

If a complete headlamp unit has been replaced with a unit that was manufactured with HID or LED light sources, it must not be failed for ‘Light source and lamp not compatible’ but it must meet all other requirements detailed in section 4 of this manual specific to the type fitted at the time of test.

So whilst you cannot fit LED or HID bulbs into a halogen lamp unit you can replace the whole headlamp unit.

I hope this information explains the MOT requirements
Regards
Ian
MOT Product Specialist Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) | Chadderton GVTS | 9 Broadgate | Chadderton | OL9 9XA

[Cyker]

Yeah, so if any model of your car had LED head lights you can probably swap the whole housing in, or if there are any third-party companies that make full LED units...?

[Bper]

7 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Yeah, so if any model of your car had LED head lights you can probably swap the whole housing in, or if there are any third-party companies that make full LED units...?

What I struggle to understand is if new models are equipped with LED what difference does it make to change halogen to LED. They can't make the excuse that it may blind an incoming vehicle as those with LED fitted often blind you.

[Mojo1010]

A compliance thing I assume. When I got the mk3 yaris with halogen on projector, knew it was going to be poor lighting. Did my research beforehand that there was almost an equivalent HID bulb for it 9005/6 at the time in place of hir2 9012. 

Chose hid as I had experience of using them previously, a big choice of colour temperatures and higher lumens than led. Declared mod to insurer Adrian Flux, they classed it as lighting loom mod, no extra charge. Though it was declared when new policy arrives. It was still a risk as 3rd party HID kit are not compliance. Couldn't put up with the halogen for 5 years of ownership. Now my gen4 has led which is much better, though I dislike the 6k temp, want 5k temp. 

Try with a higher lumen halogen first and see whether it's a lot better. It will be a bit better, won't be a lot better. Then look into the route of whole head units of led, then change of car!

Edit: Those hid kits cost only £20-£45, it was so good 100w hid ballast, I tried 150w, it was too bright!!

[Cyker]

1 hour ago, Bper said:

What I struggle to understand is if new models are equipped with LED what difference does it make to change halogen to LED. They can't make the excuse that it may blind an incoming vehicle as those with LED fitted often blind you.

It's a bit of a fine distinction, but - You are allowed to swap from halogen to LED *headlamps*, but you're not allowed to stick LED bulbs in a halogen headlamp.

The reasoning is halogen bulbs produce light in a point-source omnidirectional pattern, but LED bulbs don't, instead being more directional and requiring multiple LEDs for the same coverage, so the headlamp wont reflect the light in the way it was designed to and likely end up blinding oncoming drivers.

Of course my nuclear death ray LEDs did blind people by default, judging by the number of people flashing me, until I dropped the beam down a couple notches, so it's all a bit moot.

 

[Mojo1010]

If you classed the MK4 Led as nuclear ray, then the 150w hid is Fusion!!! Let's just say it was about 3x the lumens of the MK4 Led. 

[Cyker]

You have to look at them from the front to truly appreciate how insanely bright they are - I kept beaming myself in the face because I still haven't disabled the  greeting lights or whatever they're called, so if I unlock the car while walking to it at night I end up with purple splotches in my vision for the next 10 minutes  

The problem is, everybody else's lights are so bright, as well as street-light LEDs, that they don't look that bright by comparison - We're well in the brightness wars and everybody is a loser.

My theory is when most cars had halogens, our irises could open more at night which gives better night vision, but now they're probably like pinholes because everything is so bright, but nobody realizes this and just keeps cranking on brighter and brighter lights. I feel people really should have noticed that, when some manufacturers started using literal lasers to illuminate the roads, maybe we've gone too far, but nope.

 

[Bper]

22 hours ago, Cyker said:

You have to look at them from the front to truly appreciate how insanely bright they are - I kept beaming myself in the face because I still haven't disabled the  greeting lights or whatever they're called, so if I unlock the car while walking to it at night I end up with purple splotches in my vision for the next 10 minutes  

The problem is, everybody else's lights are so bright, as well as street-light LEDs, that they don't look that bright by comparison - We're well in the brightness wars and everybody is a loser.

My theory is when most cars had halogens, our irises could open more at night which gives better night vision, but now they're probably like pinholes because everything is so bright, but nobody realizes this and just keeps cranking on brighter and brighter lights. I feel people really should have noticed that, when some manufacturers started using literal lasers to illuminate the roads, maybe we've gone too far, but nope.

 

This is probably the reason why elderly motorists will not drive at night as they can't see or are blinded by the glare from LED headlights. I count myself now within this category and can totally sympathise. 

It's difficult to understand why our vision when tested is totally fine to drive, but at night it's like a combination of bad headlights, glare from oncoming traffic and when raining as well can be downright dangerous.