yaris Cross awd 12 volt battery performance in cold weather.

[BobHos]

6 minutes ago, jthspace said:

Would disabling smart lock / keyless entry as an experiment to see if that would make a difference?  Think I read that on here somewhere.

I didn't realise EHB drew current when applied though.

It probably would make a difference. Ideally I would have liked to measured the DC loads on the 12 volt Battery but I am pretty bad just now with sciatica and I do not want to try to access the Battery at present. I am pretty sure that Toyota woiuld have this information but getting them to share it is a different matter. Ideally they should have considered maximjum 12 volt loads and recharge data for short duration journeys. They should also have considered what would be a reasonable time for a car to be stationary before requiring the Battery to be charged, and this should certainly have benn mjuch greater than 3 days. I think they need to go back to the drawing board on this one, and perhaps they have???

[BobHos]

21 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

The ready mode for 30-60 minutes was a recommendation by Toyota during lockdowns or when the car not been used regularly. 
EPB only draws power when engage and disengage, not constantly when applied. You can disable this auto engage when car is off to prevent unnecessary use as often leaving the car only in P is sufficient to secure it, flat roads etc. , plus in freezing cold weather to prevent pads sticking to the discs, or when you leave the car for longer without use. 
It seems other members find out that the major reason for 12v battery issues are the batteries themselves. These Mutlu batteries seems not up to the standard.
I have an AGM Yuassa fitted as oem in my 13.5 years old Auris that still works after 264000 miles and millions start and stops, along with the hybrid battery which is made by Panasonic.
 If me as recommended by other members I will buy new Yuassa battery, fully charge it and install it and will end my problems. 
If anything else is ok with the car I can forgive Toyota for selling cars with a bad batteries, I am sure that they didn’t want that at first place. 

Could it not be that your ratio of run time to stationary time is sufficient to prevent gradual discharge of the Battery?

[Roy124]

Bob, I agree with your analysis,  the system can under certain circumstances take more than the DCDC can supply.  

My Corolla 35AmPH was replaced by a 42AmPH.  As @Cyker  has frequently argued, that can delay the inevitable. 

The process I used to get a Battery changed under warranty was to monitor the daily voltage drop over a number of days when I was not using the vehicle.   I kept a written record until it dropped to about 11.8v.  There was no argument. 

In your case with daily running you could still do this before starting each day.  Record the demand status,  lights, seats, steering wheel, aircon etc  and Ready mode time. 

If demand exceeds recharge you might over a week get readings of 12.6, 12.4, 12.1, 11.7 as an example.   Given a logged voltage loss pattern you can argue that the Battery is f.......d

[CCman]

Previously owned a PHEV Mitsubishi outlander we do nothing different in daily use or storage never had a problem like this. Also wife had a Lexus CT and that was left regularly for a month when working away, not a problem. Even Toyota are telling me they think there could be a problem the elerctronic brake? Though they are also suspecting the alarm, now that takes me back to the 80's when alarm realy did drain a Battery. I used Amprobe ACD-16 TRMS-PRO 1000A Data Logging Clamp Meter, a faff to set up under the rear seat but i've passed all i've got to my local dealer. I like this car and i want it to work.

[jthspace]

20 minutes ago, CCman said:

Previously owned a PHEV Mitsubishi outlander we do nothing different in daily use or storage never had a problem like this.

As did I. Never had an issue with the (tiny) 12v Battery although the charge in READY mode only took 15 minutes rather than the Toyota 30/60 minutes.  That being said, the 12v Battery charge in the Mitsu only charged to 80% and it was recommended to use a CTEK as well, although I never needed to.

[CCman]

Update email from France Toyota techniciam," The problem you see is normal when energy supply is low at 12v, the Electronic brake can not apply when start button pushed. If you move from 'P' the dash will flash and alarm will sound. Error message will be Hybrid system low voltage failure as car software can not boot correctly. I will investigate possible component failure.

 

[BobHos]

Yes Chris that is what happened with me. I would be very interested in what the Toyota technician finds and reports.Please keep me informed.

Why France?

[BobHos]

2 hours ago, CCman said:

Previously owned a PHEV Mitsubishi outlander we do nothing different in daily use or storage never had a problem like this. Also wife had a Lexus CT and that was left regularly for a month when working away, not a problem. Even Toyota are telling me they think there could be a problem the elerctronic brake? Though they are also suspecting the alarm, now that takes me back to the 80's when alarm realy did drain a battery. I used Amprobe ACD-16 TRMS-PRO 1000A Data Logging Clamp Meter, a faff to set up under the rear seat but i've passed all i've got to my local dealer. I like this car and i want it to work.

Hi again Chris

Would it be possible for you to send me the current readings you took with your clamp meter, it would help me a lot in my understanding of what is happening?

[CCman]

When i stopped parked up and left the car over night I got 1.46Amps then it dropped as i shut the car up to a steady 268ma which is nothing in terms of the Battery power? then every so often there was a jump to nearly 2.4 amps there are so many sensors and gadgets on these that it could be any one or number of things, even the alarm. My vehicle is parked on the road and passing vehicles could disturb the car and set off something i don't know about? There is no direct pattern to this jump it just peaks and about 10minutes later settles 

[BobHos]

7 minutes ago, CCman said:

When i stopped parked up and left the car over night I got 1.46Amps then it dropped as i shut the car up to a steady 268ma which is nothing in terms of the battery power? then every so often there was a jump to nearly 2.4 amps there are so many sensors and gadgets on these that it could be any one or number of things, even the alarm. My vehicle is parked on the road and passing vehicles could disturb the car and set off something i don't know about? There is no direct pattern to this jump it just peaks and about 10minutes later settles 

Thanks Chris that is interesting and useful. Despite my sciatica I decided to try to monitor currents at the Battery myself. I was a bit wary of trying to open the red plastic cover to get access to the terminals and leads. I have a clamp on meter which can measure dc current but I could not see pos or neg leads. How did you access them?

See photos

[BobHos]

14 minutes ago, CCman said:

When i stopped parked up and left the car over night I got 1.46Amps then it dropped as i shut the car up to a steady 268ma which is nothing in terms of the battery power? then every so often there was a jump to nearly 2.4 amps there are so many sensors and gadgets on these that it could be any one or number of things, even the alarm. My vehicle is parked on the road and passing vehicles could disturb the car and set off something i don't know about? There is no direct pattern to this jump it just peaks and about 10minutes later settles 

Been charging my Battery which I am sure was in a fairly discharged state. My charger has an open circuit voltage of 14.4 volts which is the same as the low voltage output voltage from the DC-DC convertor which is fed from the high voltage hybrid Battery during normal operation. I measured the DC-DC output voltage yesterday under all load conditions and it was a steady 14.4 volts. When I started charging my 12 volt Battery with the car parked the battery terminal voltage was 11.9 volts and the current from my charger was 2A which gradually dropped to 1A as the battery voltage increased to 14.4 volts. It has stayed, as expected at 1A for the past 4 hours. At that frate of charge I expect it will be some time tomorrow before the battery has a reasonable level of charge.

From this information I have deduced that when the car is in ready mode or running the charge into the battery will, realistically. only be 1A or less (depending on state of charge of the battery). This will not provide much of a charge for a 35AH battery if the car is run or in ready mode for, say, 1 hour. If the discharge current when the car is parked is of the same magnitude (which it may well be given your results) then it is quite understandable how battery charge will disspate with time.

[BobHos]

48 minutes ago, CCman said:

When i stopped parked up and left the car over night I got 1.46Amps then it dropped as i shut the car up to a steady 268ma which is nothing in terms of the battery power? then every so often there was a jump to nearly 2.4 amps there are so many sensors and gadgets on these that it could be any one or number of things, even the alarm. My vehicle is parked on the road and passing vehicles could disturb the car and set off something i don't know about? There is no direct pattern to this jump it just peaks and about 10minutes later settles 

Hi again Chris, just had another thought - you said parked 12 volt load was generally 280mA with occasional increases. Even 280mA for say 10 hours at night equates to 2.8 Ah Battery discharge which is substantially greater than an approximate 1Ah charge from a 1 hour run or 1 hour in ready mode. It is certainly beginning to look to me like a load/charge issue and not a Battery fault. If batteries  are "failing" it may well be due to inadequate charging rather than Battery quality or size.

[CCman]

I have to say mine is a little different but I removed the red plastic cap and followed the lead to a clip which i removed to give some slack, i did have to leave the plastic cap off to do this, the Battery in mine is a yuasa 053 5000 series though it has a Toyota sticker over this, looking at this it's 50AH which I am told is up from previous models 45AH. Mine has a T shaped red cap with flying leads that i assume are sensors and a thick black lead which is the live. 

[BobHos]

8 minutes ago, CCman said:

I have to say mine is a little different but I removed the red plastic cap and followed the lead to a clip which i removed to give some slack, i did have to leave the plastic cap off to do this, the battery in mine is a yuasa 053 5000 series though it has a Toyota sticker over this, looking at this it's 50AH which I am told is up from previous models 45AH. Mine has a T shaped red cap with flying leads that i assume are sensors and a thick black lead which is the live. 

Hi again Chris, now I am a little bit more confused. A previous poster said the Toyota Battery was a 35AH one which I assumed was the one I have. You now say that your one is a Yuasa 50AH one. Other posters on this site are saying they have changed to Yuasa 45AH and everything seems ok but you said that your one failed after lying parked for 3 days. Is that correct or am I getting a bit mixed up? 

[CCman]

Yes toyota quote a standard Battery on a 2022 model as 45AH mine has embossed on it 50AH under the toyota sticker.  I can't find much info on the 2023 changes and why they made these changes there being very coy about it. Manufactured by Yuasa? it is an 053 type looking online every one seems to sell 45Ah as standard and 50Ah as a high range alternative but i can only find this for a 2022 model not quite the same as mine.

[BobHos]

11 minutes ago, CCman said:

Yes toyota quote a standard battery on a 2022 model as 45AH mine has embossed on it 50AH under the toyota sticker.  I can't find much info on the 2023 changes and why they made these changes there being very coy about it. Manufactured by Yuasa? it is an 053 type looking online every one seems to sell 45Ah as standard and 50Ah as a high range alternative but i can only find this for a 2022 model not quite the same as mine.

I just assumed mine was a 35Ah after seeing earlier post (manufacturer ???) but I daresay I will find out if I can ever get the back seat up.

[CCman]

Now that is a bugger, I don't like the location and space they given the Battery, I was afraid i might snap the rear seat.

[CCman]

I do know that certain parts they use are generic and they can vary my FALKEN tyres I noticed when i collected my car that another similar car ( don't know spec ) had Bridgestone tyres on.  I was told that since covid parts supply is more difficult so they use more than one supplier for the more generic parts. I can understand this as where I work we do the same thing. 

[Chas G]

17 minutes ago, BobHos said:

I just assumed mine was a 35Ah after seeing earlier post (manufacturer ???) but I daresay I will find out if I can ever get the back seat up.

Not to be undertaken if you have sciatica -

Run your fingers under the front edge of the seat until you feel the catch and then put your hands either side of it and do a snatch lift. If you just pull hard it doesn't release

Then do the one on the other side. 

This video clearly shows how to push down the seat base and pull it forward to release it from the 2 securing brackets.

I have turned off my keyless entry, confirmed that the car is not connected to mytoyota and removed the dash cam. Voltage loss overnight was still present at 0.05v but this has increased due to the very cold nights recently.

For me, the issue is not the voltage loss overnight, its short journeys involving several start/stops.

My yaris cross 2wd is 9/22. I too assumed that the Battery was a 35ahr Mutlu. My back seat and bottom plastic panel are still off so I will have a look in the morning to see what size it is.

 

 

[Cyker]

8 hours ago, Mojo1010 said:

Anchorman will fit it for you for free when you buy the Yuasa battery. If you are still a bit worry about the EMS, he may even swap his lexus for your cross as he is such a nice forum community man 😛

You might have to buy him quite a few pints first tho'!  

[Mojo1010]

27 minutes ago, Cyker said:

You might have to buy him quite a few pints first tho'!  

I'll buy all the pints he can drink for the lexus 🙂 . Will also bring along my mate Dave, together with Chas getting the Battery changed, give him the comedy gold of yesterday's years 😉

[anchorman]

On 1/19/2024 at 11:21 AM, Mojo1010 said:

Anchorman will fit it for you for free when you buy the Yuasa battery. If you are still a bit worry about the EMS, he may even swap his lexus for your cross as he is such a nice forum community man 😛

Easy tiger.  You’ll have to separate anchorwoman from the ventilated seats so if you want to try, be my guest.  

[MikeSh]

3 hours ago, anchorman said:

You’ll have to separate anchorwoman from the ventilated seats

Hmm. There are sooo many directions that challenge could go ... 🤣

[anchorman]

7 hours ago, MikeSh said:

Hmm. There are sooo many directions that challenge could go ... 🤣

I suppose I could have phrased it better.   

[BobHos]

6 hours ago, anchorman said:

I suppose I could have phrased it better.   

Hi Don

I just realised that you are now the owner of a Lexus. Did you give up on the yaris Cross?. I remeber you commenting when I posted on tests in difficult winter conditions at the start of last year.