Government(?) employing asylum seekers.

[Bper]

6 minutes ago, Cyker said:

The problem is the change to how people progress through education - I think mainly the changes made during the Blair era, where they encouraged EVERYONE to go through 6th form, college and university.

It would have been a great idea if we were still in the EU - More people elevate to higher-end jobs and the more menial stuff gets filled in by EU migrants.

We've kinda shot that in the foot though - Now there is a shortage of tradesman and labourers these days because everyone's gone into higher education - Nobody with a degree is going to want to go pick lettuces and neither should they.

IMHO we need to get more people into things like apprenticeships - electricians, plumbers, farming etc. Core stuff.

On top of that, students are basically just a revenue stream now; The institutions get the money, the students get the debt.

Cyker, I wouldn't count out Labour campaigning for another referendum to rejoin the EU. They say they will not but considering the absolute long drawn out farce the Conservatives have made of this I think the remainers have been waiting for the younger generation to get to voting age. 

There are a lot of people who voted to leave who if given another chance I believe they would vote to go back in as they can't see any benefits to their lives since we left.

To be honest I voted to leave but I can't see any benefits to date it's made. ☹️

[Cyker]

That's assuming the EU would even let us back in; We had a unique position and as one of the founding countries were allowed to op-out of a load of stuff that was mandatory for almost everyone else - e.g. adoption of the Euro as currency, rebates and subsidies on our contributions, border controls etc. -  and I can't see them letting us going back to that state as if nothing happened if we re-joined as it was a real PITA for the rest of the EU and a lot of them, esp. newer joiners, thought it unfair that we were allowed so many exceptions.

Also remember our MEP was Farrage, and with his special brand of anti-EU toxicity burning any bridges he could, I'm not expecting much sympathy. 

The UK was never a great fit for the EU anyway - We're an island nation used to dictating terms to the rest of our empire, even though that's not a thing anymore, and have always been fiercely independent. We were always one of the most antagonistic members and I feel like we just don't have the spirit of co-operation that the rest of the EU countries have, especially the scandinavians.

At this point I'll be happy if Scotland and Wales don't try to secede! 

[FROSTYBALLS]

If we were to re-join, given the EU's attitude to the UK since the referendum, I'm sure it will be at a far higher cost than our previous membership, and certainly things like joining the Euro, becoming part of a European army, etc, etc, will be pre-requisites.

Problem is that it will still take a few more years for Brexit to be anywhere near completion, and some are expecting it to be cut and dried now.

[Cyker]

That's my suspicion too. It may not be right - They might not be as hard on us as I pessimistically assume - I think for a while they were offering a 'reset' if we re-joined, i.e. we'd resume as we were - but that was a long time ago and I suspect that is no longer the case.

It'll never happen while things are the way they are anyway, we're far too stubborn.

Maybe after WW3!  

[AndyN01]

IMHO "we" as a  nation are absolutely rubbish at "placing" people into jobs that they have a natural aptitude for.

There is such a vast range out there but I believe that many folks simply "fall into" whatever job they get and end up "trapped" into that sphere of working. Find someone who genuinely loves their job and they will be a happy, passionate, effective, knowledgeable, skilful etc. etc. person.

I, as I guess many on here do too, know folks who are an absolute "genius" in one field but completely hopeless in another. I know an academic with a list of Internationally published papers to their name who has not a clue how to, say, check their washer fluid.

That's the way their brain is wired up and that's the bit we do little or nothing to find out about during all those years of "education."

I wonder if we'd currently have such a lack of "trades" if we'd done some "aptitude testing" and put apprenticeships etc. on the same footing as University all those years ago?

The discussion about the "value" of any job (and, by inference, its pay) is, I think, one for another day 🤔

Andy.

[Haliotis]

Andy, I fully agree with you regarding people not being placed in jobs that are right for them.  Giving priority to the balance based on gender and colour is the first step to failure, then there is the ever present ‘old boys’ club’ - the only true way to success is the right person in the right job, based on a person’s ability.

I retired as a senior development engineer, and started my career as an engineering apprentice, then worked my way up.  During my career in development I have had university students working with me, who have spent all their time in academia, and never worked at the “coal-face”.  They could spout formulae like a parrot but, given a problem on the production line, they would comeback to myself or my managers and say that the tooling wasn’t working correctly. Well, I already knew that from a production manager complaining that there was a stoppage in the manufacturing process!

Problem is, successive governments have given would-be practical students the impression that blue-collar workers were inferior to management levels, and short-sighted managers have failed to regularly employ apprentices - preferring to filch skilled workers from other companies by tempting pay offers, with the eventual result that older workers retired and were no longer there to teach (if they could be found) any apprentices to become the future skilled workers.  Also, unlike forward-thinking countries like Japan, skilled trades men in the UK were generally regarded as the rather dull flat-cap brigade.

And so, here we are, buying from China many everyday appliances that were once better made items produced in the UK!

[AndyN01]

26 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

.......

the only true way to success is the right person in the right job, based on a person’s ability.

 

What a radical idea. 😀

Any business (or indeed Country) that actually did this would, IMHO, be a complete success pretty quickly.

👍

[Roy124]

Important to differentiate between asylum seekers with wet feet and those with papers. 

As for immigrants, wherever they are housed they will gravitate to Boltistan, Lutistan, Londistan or where they have a strong economic base in pharmacuticals such as papava somnlferum or erthroxylum coca.

[Haliotis]

Blimey, Roy, try saying that when you’re Brahms and Liszt!