Smart Meters

[Haliotis]

My energy supplier (Octopus Energy) recently advised me that my electricity meter was due to be replaced.  At the same time, a smart meter would be installed.  I don’t want one, and told this to Octopus.  Now, Octopus are normally very reasonable people but, on this occasion, their agent simply said the only options were to either have the meter, or change supplier. I was told it was government policy for these meters to be installed.

Yesterday, on TalkTV, Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg said that he would not have a smart meter.  He is a respected member of the government, so his decision must be based on reasons of common sense.

On Wednesday, 31/01/2024 at 8:00 pm, Channel 5 are screening a programme “Smart Meters: Should I get one?”   Maybe this programme will clear up the issue regarding compulsory installation.

Our son does have one in his home.  It is wireless, and stands on his sideboard.  So, I am thinking, if I must have a smart meter, it does not necessarily mean I have to keep it in a place where it can function - i.e., I could put it in the shed down the garden.   There have been many instances of people having problems with these meters - as far vas I am concerned, there’s no smoke without fire, and I don’t really want one in my home.

[Mjolinor]

The Smart meter is not the bit standing on the sideboard. The Smart meter is wherever the incoming supply is. The bit on the sideboard is purely for you to see what is going on and nothing you do with that has any effect on the Smart meter.

I have been refusing them for decades but they are now not so bad generally. The first few versions were ridiculously inaccurate. There is a study online done by a Dutch company that showed that the best overcharged by 113% and the worst overcharged by 600%.

My personal preference would be to bring back the Ferraris disc meter that has worked perfectly for a hundred years but they are too expensive to make and reading them remotely is troublesome and complicated.

 

[Roy124]

Smart meters have their place.   You can get a lower rate for EV charging.  My supplier gives me a rebate if my usage between 4 and 7 is a given percentage below my daily usage.

If you have solar panels you can also be paid (a pittance) for energy you feed to the grid.

However if you fancy a display on your sideboard you can still connect one to your old electric meter.

[Bper]

I am with Octopus and there is no requirement or legislation for you to have a smart meter. The agent is wrong and should never have told you this. 

Why do they say you need your meter changed is it broken or not reading properly. I assume you have a standard meter that you take the readings off every month and give them the readings online or over the phone .

Unless Octopus supplied and installed the original meter then they do not own this and can only advise to change it if you have a problem with payment of your bill. But this is only advisory.

Even if your original meter is faulty you can change this via a qualified electrician and then give them the meter serial number and start new readings.

If they ever advised me that I should have one I would change my account straight away. Octopus recently said that they would not look to enforce smart meters unless people wanted them .

 

[Haliotis]

Hi Bob Bper). I received an email from Octopus on 7 Dec 23 (still have it in my inbox), which says my electricity meter has “reached the end of its certification period and needs to be replaced”.  This date is set by the Office for Product Safety and Standards (OPSS). “It is our responsibility to let you know when your meter has reached its certification date and replace it so it stays in working order”.

It tells me that “I have not made my booking yet”, but this booking automatically includes installing the smart meter.  My gas meter will apparently be similarly dealt with at the same time.

Your comment, Bob, about “there is no requirement or legislation for you to have a smart meter” is interesting because there is NO mention of this in the email, and I have not yet found any info to the contrary.

I am now going to wait until the Channel 5 programme has been screened, to see if any comments regarding legislation, or not, are given, and I have set my TV box to record the programme.  Subject to what is screened, I will then be challenging Octopus about the contents of the email and their agent’s summarisation of the rules.

The email is shown to be from the Smart Metering Team.   Shall I say, ”Watch this space”?

[dannyboy413]

I received an email from my electricity supplier, (Bord Gais), on 29th August 2023 telling me that my meter will be changed to a smart meter and I would be contacted by ESB, (Electricity Supply Board), about arranging the change over - I am still waiting!

[Mojo1010]

Its a very useful device to have, it made our household efficient at our usage. 

[Rhymes with Paris]

I don't want one either.

My main concern with them is the energy companies as they call them now, rather than the money collectors that they actually are, is them making big mistakes,as they always have done and always will.

The consumer columns are full of horrendous stories of all of them getting it wrong, including remote cut off for vulnerable people and others,for spurious bills, and being difficult,if indeed possible,to get things put right.

Of course, these companies would like everyone to be on a smart meter, and monthly direct debits,a combination concocted in the seventh circle of hell IMO.

Then it is all automated with no checks until a customer/victim complains, with all the problems that can cause, aswell as increased risk of bank accounts being compromised by hackers.

I may have misunderstood some of this, but it would scare me if this was forced on me,or made a condition of supply.

With my conditions, no heating in winter would be fatal.

 

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

Info from British Gas re meter certification:

https://www.britishgas.co.uk/help/meters/replacements#:~:text=Just like most things%2C your,slow%2C leading to inaccurate bills.

[Haliotis]

25 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Info from British Gas re meter certification:

https://www.britishgas.co.uk/help/meters/replacements#:~:text=Just like most things%2C your,slow%2C leading to inaccurate bills.

Reading the above, it’s the old trick of arm up between your shoulder blades.  The advice on this website, “If you’d prefer not to have a smart meter installed, live chat with one of our advisors and we’ll update your account.”

And there’s the threat!  What it means is that you will be moved to a less attractive tariff - one costing you more money - as punishment for electing to use your lawful right of choice.   Surely such a move is discriminatory and barely legal?  If the government have not made smart meters mandatory (the government has only asked that they be promoted by reasonable means), how can energy companies legally change that from reasonable to punitive by financial enforcement?

[FROSTYBALLS]

3 hours ago, Haliotis said:

“If you’d prefer not to have a smart meter installed, live chat with one of our advisors and we’ll update your account.”

And there’s the threat!  What it means is that you will be moved to a less attractive tariff - one costing you more money - as punishment for electing to use your lawful right of choice.  

Not necessarily - surely that means they will update your account to show that you don't want a smart meter.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Criticsm of the in-home displays:

Octopus Energy boss criticises smart meters as households struggle with faulty devices (msn.com)

[Parts-King]

I have no idea why people avoid them, the original SMETS 1 meters were useless, not so the new units, it sends a meter reading every 15 mins, accurate statements, the ability to take advantage of cheaper electricity "offers" as and when for off peak use. I have had no problems and had both meters changed around 2 years ago. 

[Graham47]

7 hours ago, Haliotis said:

Yesterday, on TalkTV, Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg said that he would not have a smart meter.  He is a respected member of the government, so his decision must be based on reasons of common sense.

“respected “ !! Seriously ??

[Bper]

Many people have received an email or letter regarding the meter certification period in other words, your meter is past it's sell by date.

As I said in my post above, you do not have to legally have a smart meter installed but the energy suppliers are getting round this by the meter certification expiry date. So it would appear on the surface you do not have a choice.

But you do, firstly if you do want to have a smart meter then ask for one that only works in dumb mode. This ensures that it works like a standard analogue meter and it does not send readings to them and has no remote connectivity.You take the readings as per normal and enter the readings on online or phone once a month.

Secondly, if you are happy to keep the standard analogue meter then contact an approved meter installer and ask them to replace your meter with a new certified analogue or digital meter. Then you can give your supplier, in this case Octopus the serial number and both readings from the old and new meter. However, ensure the certified date of the meter has a long certified expiry date. 

It is without doubt that legislation will be brought in at some stage to ensure all domestic properties have smart meters but this will be  subject to signal and practical location installations.

The control that these energy suppliers have with smart meters is alarming and consumer complaints confirm this. 

Just imagine having your supply shut off at peak times due to energy shortages and also increasing your tariff when demand is at its peak to encourage you not to use it. 

How soon before they monitor how much air we breathe and charge us for that.

[Roy124]

I applied to have a Smart Meter. He turned up and said he wasn't told my gas meter was in the ground and he needed a different sort.  A new appointment was made.

I changed suppliers at the end of😄 contract.

He returned a few weeks later and installed the meters.    They would not connect.   I mentioned I had changed suppliers.  Boo boom.  He had to reinstall the old meters. 😁

 

[Roy124]

5 minutes ago, Bper said:

Just imagine having your supply shut off at peak times due to energy shortages . 

You don't need a smart meter for that.

 

6 minutes ago, Bper said:

also increasing your tariff when demand is at its peak to encourage you not to use it. 

Or putting everyone on a higher tariff and giving smart meter users lower off peak tariffs.

Don't worry, they can shaft you which ever.

[Roy124]

Ovo offered interest on credit balances.  From year 3 this was 5% which is much better than most savings accounts. 

Apparently,  as there have been complaints that they are holding too much of our cash.  Accordingly they will stop paying interest.

That was one reason fir staying with them and earning a good rate of interest.   Rats.

[Dezzer21]

My smart meters haven’t been sending readings since mid November had numerous calls to suppler EDF. Engineer failed to turn up to check had to pay me £30 compensation still ongoing.

 

[Roy124]

Dealer, I got a £30 too, love it.

[Bper]

7 hours ago, Haliotis said:

Hi Bob Bper). I received an email from Octopus on 7 Dec 23 (still have it in my inbox), which says my electricity meter has “reached the end of its certification period and needs to be replaced”.  This date is set by the Office for Product Safety and Standards (OPSS). “It is our responsibility to let you know when your meter has reached its certification date and replace it so it stays in working order”.

It tells me that “I have not made my booking yet”, but this booking automatically includes installing the smart meter.  My gas meter will apparently be similarly dealt with at the same time.

Your comment, Bob, about “there is no requirement or legislation for you to have a smart meter” is interesting because there is NO mention of this in the email, and I have not yet found any info to the contrary.

I am now going to wait until the Channel 5 programme has been screened, to see if any comments regarding legislation, or not, are given, and I have set my TV box to record the programme.  Subject to what is screened, I will then be challenging Octopus about the contents of the email and their agent’s summarisation of the rules.

The email is shown to be from the Smart Metering Team.   Shall I say, ”Watch this space”?

Albert, have read of this link.

https://www.daslaw.co.uk/blog/your-consumer-rights-when-it-comes-to-smart-meters#:~:text=Energy suppliers are therefore required,legally required to have one.

[Roy124]

"Energy suppliers are therefore required to take all reasonable steps to install smart meters to their consumers during the rollout. Consumers on the other hand have the right to deny the installation of a smart meter as they are not legally required to have one."

the key word here is reasonable.   Who determines reasonable?  The use of subterfuge and half truths?

[Cyker]

Indeed - The whole thing is contradictory - You don't legally have to have one fitted but we'll keep pressuring you into having one with any form of leverage we can possibly think of. It's so stupid. They can't have it both ways!

We've been getting threatening letters about our meter no longer being certified and I'm like, it hasn't been checked for certification in over 40 years and now you're saying this? Pull the other one.

My faith in the competency of everyone involved in implementing it is very low; I've heard stories from enough people who experienced problems I'm not going to risk it just because they want it. I'm not risking the switch until there is some tangible benefit to me, especially with them now trying these bullying and scaremongering tactics.

 

[FROSTYBALLS]

We agreed to have our old meters replaced last year. The fitting was booked for after our 3 week holiday in September/October. However, despite the arranged date, we got so fed up with the contractor (SMS) continually phoning and messaging to say they were in our area, could they bring the date forward, etc, etc, we cancelled the whole thing, and blocked their phone numbers.

We had the main gas pipes replaced in our road last summer, which also involved connecting each house up to the new pipes. No issue with connecting up to our old dumb meter, which still appears to be working fine, and giving reliable readings.

[Roy124]

Cyker, there is an age thing.  Frosty mentioned his gas pipe being changed.  I remember when Scottish Gas gave us an offer impossible to refuse.  They would install gas for free.  Later it would cost.   50 years ago, no brainer.

Or when MANWEB changed our electricity cables  from DC to AC and that was 75 years ago.

Today's working young have cochlear implants so they are wirelessly connected to the modern world.  I doubt they can relate to us old foggies