Yaris Cross starting up in petrol mode?

[dcweather]

I did have about a 30 minute Test drive in an identical model. I was impressed with the way it drove especially in terms of handling and responsiveness and I still am. I did pick up slightly on road noise. My other concern was bumps and pot holes and that was slightly better than the Renault. As for the mpg, lack of sound proofing, etc I didn't pick up on that. It was of course midsummer when I test drove it given the six month lead in so may have been smoother? I had been reading this forum for several months before as well and none of this stuff except the 12v Battery (and I already knew about that as I had changed the one in the older Yaris) had come out of the woodwork then. Nearly all comments were highly positive. I  don't think it was unreasonable for me to assume that 10 years on from the very start of hybrids that the top of the range Cross would be better than its predecessor but it only is in terms of gadgets which are indeed nice.

[dcweather]

14 hours ago, Chas G said:

22 yaris cross icon.I did 80 mile round trip to Reading yesterday and according to trip display I averaged 71mpg at 65mph with the cruise control on. It was a lovely warm day though so no heater or headlights on. Total average for the 15,500 miles the car has done is 60mpg.

If I pop down to Waitrose about 1.5 miles away, the  engine runs for a couple of minutes and only cuts in occasionally after that. The rest of the time it runs on the battery.

If it wasn't for the "elephant in the room" under the back seat I would keep the car.

That is very impressive and what I'd hoped for (even expected). I've not used adaptavie cruise control yet but I've had a few journeys with a long 50mph average speed check and during that period even the mpg display doesn't go past 60 mpg. On the motorway it was showing 45-55 mpg at a near constant 70 mph depending on whether it was uphill or downhill. I have to bear in mind that this is the first month of its life and half of that period has been cold to very cold.

[dcweather]

11 hours ago, Cyker said:

Pfft, only 40psi? Mine were at 60 when I collected it!    

And if there's one thing with most car reviewers it's they don't know jack - Half of them were still talking about how sluggish the new Yaris was and the rubber band effect from the cones and belts in its CVT, which anyone who's driven the new ones knows is total smeg - The car is extremely responsive and any one with half a brain should know by now the hybrid system isn't really a CVT, it just pretends to be one, and definitely doesn't have any belts or cones in it! (Seriously people, it's been like, 20 years!)

As for the heated seats, yes all that runs off the 12v system, but once you turn the car on the whole 12v system is powered by the high-voltage system, i.e. the big traction battery; The 12v battery's ONLY job is to keep the standby electrics running when the car is off; As soon as you turn it on, the big high-voltage relays close and the high-voltage battery takes over powering everything. (That's probably why Toyota thought they could get away with a smaller lighter 12v battery, but it seems they underestimated how badly turkey can make a battery  ).

For economy, using the heated seats+wheel is *much* better than using the engine heat, and has a far lower impact on mpg - Probably about the same effect on mpg as the aircon (i.e. very little. Maybe 1-2 mpg??) - I'm very jealous as the non-Cross Yaris doesn't even get that as an option so I have to choose between freezing or sizeable mpg drop 

The new cars do have a lot of compromises but you won't find a more efficient car on sale that's as responsive. And at least you get heated seats! (I'm still mad Toyota UK are deliberately keeping them off the normal Yaris!)
Have you test driven the Renault Captur E-Tech? It as at least as responsive, runs a lot more and faster on EV and is quicker accelerating. It is much quieter but has its own quirks. Lots of wallow and roll and is even more jarring on potholes. Engine can be just as harsh uphill and seems to change down to the equivalent of first gear as it "roars" down steeper hills!. It has always struck me as odd that manufacturers don't look at rivals cars and come up with a car that has all the good points of all of them!

 

 

[anchorman]

14 hours ago, Chas G said:

22 yaris cross icon.I did 80 mile round trip to Reading yesterday and according to trip display I averaged 71mpg at 65mph with the cruise control on. It was a lovely warm day though so no heater or headlights on. Total average for the 15,500 miles the car has done is 60mpg.

If I pop down to Waitrose about 1.5 miles away, the  engine runs for a couple of minutes and only cuts in occasionally after that. The rest of the time it runs on the battery.

If it wasn't for the "elephant in the room" under the back seat I would keep the car.

Has that elephant ever roared or is it in the mind of the nut behind the wheel 😉.  
 

The economy of these things always takes a hit in winter.  My Lexus is not brilliant right now.  It’s largely because I want it hot inside and although I could improve the figures dramatically by turning the heat down, if anybody thinks I’m freezing my nuts off in a luxury car to save 10mpg, they can think again. It’s simple physics.  If you want heat, the only way of generating it is to use the engine.  

[Mojo1010]

29 minutes ago, dcweather said:

I did have about a 30 minute Test drive in an identical model. I was impressed with the way it drove especially in terms of handling and responsiveness and I still am. I did pick up slightly on road noise. My other concern was bumps and pot holes and that was slightly better than the Renault. As for the mpg, lack of sound proofing, etc I didn't pick up on that. It was of course midsummer when I test drove it given the six month lead in so may have been smoother? I had been reading this forum for several months before as well and none of this stuff except the 12v battery (and I already knew about that as I had changed the one in the older Yaris) had come out of the woodwork then. Nearly all comments were highly positive. I  don't think it was unreasonable for me to assume that 10 years on from the very start of hybrids that the top of the range Cross would be better than its predecessor but it only is in terms of gadgets which are indeed nice.

Not quite. The handling, power and fuel economy have also improved by a quite a margin. I moved from a 2016 MK3 to a 2023 MK4, fuel economy is better by about 15%. Handling is so much better and has more power, much reduced engine rev. 

Think your expectation is perhaps a little high. Give it a few years before coming to a conclusion. 

[TonyHSD]

In all Toyota hybrids the petrol engine works more often in cold or hot temperatures to take away unnecessary load from the traction Battery when extra power is needed to propel the car. Using AC or low voltage in 12v Battery will add to these more often engine kicks inns. Heat in the cabin and normal operating temperature of the engine are the other factor as mentioned above. Nothing to worry about. These cars are made to be smart. And what we see on dashboard as information about what is happening under the hood it’s very limited, in fact the car has its own behaviour how to do the things and in 95% of the cases if there are no warning lights displayed there are no faults with the car, just a hybrid experience.

 

[Bernard Foy]

15 hours ago, dcweather said:

An explanation but maybe not good news because that will take me over two years and I probably won't have it by then!

Well like myself I don’t keep my Toyota’s very long either, my last Mark4 was 10 months old and 5000 miles on the clock. The one I have now is being traded in on Friday of this week with only 18000 miles on the clock. So whoever buys our traded in cars will be getting a well cared Toyota.

[Bernard Foy]

On 1/28/2024 at 12:15 PM, dcweather said:

I imagine the Renault Captur was heavier, given its slightly larger size, bigger engine capacity andmore sound proofing and larger fuel tank etc. But despite most things being excellent it didn't drive anything like as nicely as the Cross.

Not necessarily a bigger engine, my sister has 1.2 high spec model Captur. Right enough not near as responsive as our Mark4, and the turbo is slow to kick in. I have driven it several times and it’s a really comfortable car, but a slow and unresponsive for my liking. 

[YarisHybrid2016]

How hard you drive it, hills, and heater usage all affect it. Driving very gently is actually less efficient! I found I get better gas milage when I'm not trying, i.e., harder acceleration than you think you'd get away with, but keeping it out of the power band.

The fuel makes a difference, too. Run the tank low, then try Tesco E5 99 for a few tanks. I avoid E10 like the plague!

[dcweather]

32 minutes ago, Bernard Foy said:

Not necessarily a bigger engine, my sister has 1.2 high spec model Captur. Right enough not near as responsive as our Mark4, and the turbo is slow to kick in. I have driven it several times and it’s a really comfortable car, but a slow and unresponsive for my liking. 

That's not the Etech Hybrid though is it?? I had a Captur Auto for a year before the Captur hybrid which was superior in my opinion.

[dcweather]

33 minutes ago, YarisHybrid2016 said:

How hard you drive it, hills, and heater usage all affect it. Driving very gently is actually less efficient! I found I get better gas milage when I'm not trying, i.e., harder acceleration than you think you'd get away with, but keeping it out of the power band.

The fuel makes a difference, too. Run the tank low, then try Tesco E5 99 for a few tanks. I avoid E10 like the plague!

Maybe I am being too cautious in my driving style! I never put my foot down unless I need to for safety reasons or inconveniencing other drivers. I think I saw it come up as a score of 80 in eco driving on the dsboard if tht means anything. E5 99 is 10p a litre more (+6.5%)  so wouldn't that negate any savings or do you think you get back more than that?

[dcweather]

By the way, thanks for all the useful and interesting responses.👍 I think I mentioned before that perhaps there is a little "buyers remorse" in my comments and I suspect I will soon get over some of my disappointments once I get used to it.

[Bernard Foy]

2 hours ago, dcweather said:

That's not the Etech Hybrid though is it?? I had a Captur Auto for a year before the Captur hybrid which was superior in my opinion.

No. It’s a 1.2 petrol model 

[Hicardo]

Dave my man, come back to us in summer if you still don't rate the economy.  We're averaging around 60 overall, possibly a little more. Summer 65-70, winter 55-60.  The recent very cold snap took me into the 50-55 range for the first time.  These are tank averages by the way.  I have the heater set at 20 degrees usually - except in summer 😀

[Cyker]

There are cars that are faster/more responsive, but there are no cars that are that AND achieve this level of efficiency at the same time; Almost all other cars, you can drive them enthusiastically, or you drive them for economy, but not both. This is a rare have-your-cake-and-eat-it car for that.

The only other car that comes close is the Honda Jazz, and is the Yaris Mk4's closest competitor in terms of performance and economy; It beats the Yaris in practicality, but looses to it in driving dynamics.

The third nearest is probably the Clio hybrid - It's significantly more powerful than the Jazz and Yaris, but its real-world economy doesn't come close to either of them, and you have to drive it economically to get half-decent mpg, unlike the Jazz and Yaris. Also it's french and most members probably know my views on the reliability of french electrics by now  

[dcweather]

5 hours ago, Hicardo said:

Dave my man, come back to us in summer if you still don't rate the economy.  We're averaging around 60 overall, possibly a little more. Summer 65-70, winter 55-60.  The recent very cold snap took me into the 50-55 range for the first time.  These are tank averages by the way.  I have the heater set at 20 degrees usually - except in summer 😀

Thanks, yes, will do,sounds good. I wonder why my Renault only dropped a couple from about 60 to 58. Sounds like the cross might beat it in the summer though and my engine might have loosend up a bit by then.

[dcweather]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

There are cars that are faster/more responsive, but there are no cars that are that AND achieve this level of efficiency at the same time; Almost all other cars, you can drive them enthusiastically, or you drive them for economy, but not both. This is a rare have-your-cake-and-eat-it car for that.

The only other car that comes close is the Honda Jazz, and is the Yaris Mk4's closest competitor in terms of performance and economy; It beats the Yaris in practicality, but looses to it in driving dynamics.

The third nearest is probably the Clio hybrid - It's significantly more powerful than the Jazz and Yaris, but its real-world economy doesn't come close to either of them, and you have to drive it economically to get half-decent mpg, unlike the Jazz and Yaris. Also it's french and most members probably know my views on the reliability of french electrics by now  

I'd be surprised if the Clio or Negaine were worse than my Captur hybrid which was 58mpg winter, 60+ mpg summer. Was very quick from start for first 50m then 0-62 in 10.6 secs. Very quiet cruising at 75mph. There were other issues I wasn't struck on driving wise as I said but never had a fault of any kind in two years.

[Roy124]

I reset the display last night and dud the school run, 4 miles, this morning. There is a hill climb each way and descent too.  The temp is 8C.  The mpg 51.

The aircon was off.  The moment I switched it on the ICE started.  I will follow Cyker's tip tomorrow. 

[Roy124]

I note the advice to use Tesco fuel. I live 5 miles from town, pop 45,000.  We have 2 supermarkets.  The nearest Tesco is 11 miles away (22 round trip).

[Chas G]

As the I hadn't reset the trip meter I took a photo of it yesterday to cheer you up. 

@anchorman there certainly is a nut behind the wheel in my car. I have been looking for a new car but I am beginning to wonder if that gives me even more anxiety than managing the issue I won't mention.

 

[TonyHSD]

3 hours ago, Roy124 said:

I note the advice to use Tesco fuel. I live 5 miles from town, pop 45,000.  We have 2 supermarkets.  The nearest Tesco is 11 miles away (22 round trip).

Tesco fuels as alternative to bp, Shell, esso and texaco however highly recommended to use e5. And e5 from the top tier garages at higher prices is better than cheaper Tesco e5. Also fuels are so slightly different between the different garages even from the same brand. The best practice is to find a garage that sells at good price and the engines sounds quieter, runs smoother and consumption is respectable. 

[dcweather]

10 hours ago, Roy124 said:

I note the advice to use Tesco fuel. I live 5 miles from town, pop 45,000.  We have 2 supermarkets.  The nearest Tesco is 11 miles away (22 round trip).

I missed that one but it's probably not scientifically tested. I only ever use Tesco fuel because it is both nearest and cheapest round here.

[dcweather]

7 hours ago, Chas G said:

As the I hadn't reset the trip meter I took a photo of it yesterday to cheer you up. 

@anchorman there certainly is a nut behind the wheel in my car. I have been looking for a new car but I am beginning to wonder if that gives me even more anxiety than managing the issue I won't mention.

 

What version Cross is that - the display is nothing like my Excel.

[TonyHSD]

1 hour ago, dcweather said:

What version Cross is that - the display is nothing like my Excel.

Icon , the entry trim level has dashboard that is like standard Yaris mk4. 

[Cyker]

For some bizzaro reason, with the Yaris the base-spec got analogue dials and all the others got a digital dash, but with the YC it's the other way around!   The lower specs get the Yaris' binocular-style digital dash, and the higher specs get a weird digital analogue dash, I think similar to the Corolla!

 

20 hours ago, dcweather said:

I'd be surprised if the Clio or Negaine were worse than my Captur hybrid which was 58mpg winter, 60+ mpg summer. Was very quick from start for first 50m then 0-62 in 10.6 secs. Very quiet cruising at 75mph. There were other issues I wasn't struck on driving wise as I said but never had a fault of any kind in two years.

I think the Clio hybrid's rated mpg is slightly higher, and the 0-60 is about 2s quicker than that so pretty quick, but in real life the mpg is still short of the claimed.

The Yaris is one of those rare cars that it's actually fairly easy to beat the claimed mpg, esp. in summer - The recent warm weather has given me a boost and I'm at 73mpg so far after 70 miles on this tank! And that includes a run where I was bombing it down a fun country lane   

I've not tried any of them, but I find generally french cars are nice to be in. I just wouldn't want to own one long term