Intelligent Speed Assistance - speed warnings

[philip42h]

Here's a less than authoritative explanation from WBAC, and in a bit more detail from mapbox ... while not authoritative they are easier to understand than the raw legislation and, I believe, accurate.

The key points:

• These systems became mandatory for new models from 6th July 2022 and will become mandatory for all new cars sold from 7th July 2024. So, any current model RAV4 that will be on sale through this year will have the system fitted.
• The system cannot rely on only a visual warning - it must have an audible or sensory warning built-in.
• While the system can be configured by the driver, it must return to its default state each time the car is switched on.

So, we are condemned to live with such systems ...

Options:

1. Buy an older car like mine ... OK, perhaps a silly suggestion.
2. Drive within the speed limits - after all that's what the system is encouraging us to do. It's a bit like the introductory of mandatory seat belts - those of us old enough to remember were up in arms about the "infringement of our liberties" but they are now an unobtrusive part of everyday motoring.
3. Reconfigure the system every time you set off.
4. Hope that the 'problem' can be resolved through personalisation - I'm not sure whether the Toyota systems are yet up to this. If you just step into the car and drive as a 'guest', the system must return to the default configuration. If you can effectively log-in to the car as a specific individual, the system should be able to automatically restore your stored driving preferences.

I don't have a fancy new car so I can't check out what is possible ... 😉

[P_J]

17 hours ago, Nick72 said:

Yes, circular European socket. I got a converter that plugs in and has a mains socket on it. I just leave it in because it's relatively flush.

I'll get me one of them. Never know when it might be handy. 

17 hours ago, Nick72 said:

Heated steering wheel a bonus as my hands and feet really feel the cold.

Only issue here would be emergency braking I guess. Getting your feet back down to the pedals in time. 

1 hour ago, philip42h said:

Hope that the 'problem' can be resolved through personalisation

I was thinking maybe that too, but whilst logged in, I set RSA to disabled. Stopped, and later restarted the car. It cancelled the setting and re-enabled. 
So I'm going to revert to having to disable it every drive. 
Its a lovely drive without the beeping - so much more relaxing. 
 

[P_J]

It's a real distraction to be beeped at so often.
I believe this in itself could cause a safety issue. 
It also detracts from more important warnings, as you end up teaching yourself to ignore the beeps. 
IMO its a major failing and doesn't meet the established standards for alarm management, that have been in place in other industries for years. 
If I'd have known this was a permanent setting I'd have seriously considered an older vehicle - certainly would've waited to test drive one that did beep everytime (my test drive vehicles had none of this)

I'm actually ok with the quieter 'watch your speed' nagging - its annoying - but a nice reminder I'm going too fast (its arguably some of road limits that are wrong, and not the car here), and its not intrusive, and I know what it means and how to react without taking eyes off the road. 
But the stupid loud BEEEEEP for every roadsign change (whether its on your own road, or just a nearby one that the car incorrectly saw) is the biggest issue for me. 
I know the speed limit has changed, cos I'm driving past the sign. Even if it only did it when stepping down from say 40 to 30, and I was going say 40 at the time - that would be ok. But when I'm doing 30 in a 30 and the next sign says 40, why do I need a BEEEEEP? 
If I missed it, I could glance at the HUD or display and see the stored value from the last sign, if it really mattered that much - but it doesn't, and it shouldn't. 
Grrrr. 
Anyway...Happy Wednesday 😆

[Nick72]

23 hours ago, nlee said:

I believe this is the new standard, not just Toyotas. You cannot turn these functions off permanently on new models, only on a journey by journey period. It was discussed somewhere else on here recently.

Google "Intelligent Speed Assistance" there is lots on it.

This is going to drive me nuts.

[Nick72]

8 hours ago, philip42h said:

Here's a less than authoritative explanation from WBAC, and in a bit more detail from mapbox ... while not authoritative they are easier to understand than the raw legislation and, I believe, accurate.

The key points:

• These systems became mandatory for new models from 6th July 2022 and will become mandatory for all new cars sold from 7th July 2024. So, any current model RAV4 that will be on sale through this year will have the system fitted.
• The system cannot rely on only a visual warning - it must have an audible or sensory warning built-in.
• While the system can be configured by the driver, it must return to its default state each time the car is switched on.

So, we are condemned to live with such systems ...

Options:

1. Buy an older car like mine ... OK, perhaps a silly suggestion.
2. Drive within the speed limits - after all that's what the system is encouraging us to do. It's a bit like the introductory of mandatory seat belts - those of us old enough to remember were up in arms about the "infringement of our liberties" but they are now an unobtrusive part of everyday motoring.
3. Reconfigure the system every time you set off.
4. Hope that the 'problem' can be resolved through personalisation - I'm not sure whether the Toyota systems are yet up to this. If you just step into the car and drive as a 'guest', the system must return to the default configuration. If you can effectively log-in to the car as a specific individual, the system should be able to automatically restore your stored driving preferences.

I don't have a fancy new car so I can't check out what is possible ... 😉

For me it's not the sticking to the speed limit issue. It's the beeping when I am sticking to the speed limit. The issue is these system are notoriously unreliable because they're working off map data (always out of date) and computer vision to detect road signs and that's as flakey as it gets. So the partially obscured sign or the sign outside the camera field of view or the bus blocking the sign or the road works that were but now not or the smart motorway signs. I could go on.

[Nick72]

6 hours ago, P_J said:

I'll get me one of them. Never know when it might be handy. 

Only issue here would be emergency braking I guess. Getting your feet back down to the pedals in time. 

I was thinking maybe that too, but whilst logged in, I set RSA to disabled. Stopped, and later restarted the car. It cancelled the setting and re-enabled. 
So I'm going to revert to having to disable it every drive. 
Its a lovely drive without the beeping - so much more relaxing. 
 

I hope it can be disabled in less than 2 button presses or I'll be really angry if I have to spend a minute delving into 4 layers deep into the menus each time.

[Nick72]

6 hours ago, P_J said:

It's a real distraction to be beeped at so often.
I believe this in itself could cause a safety issue. 
It also detracts from more important warnings, as you end up teaching yourself to ignore the beeps. 
IMO its a major failing and doesn't meet the established standards for alarm management, that have been in place in other industries for years. 
If I'd have known this was a permanent setting I'd have seriously considered an older vehicle - certainly would've waited to test drive one that did beep everytime (my test drive vehicles had none of this)

I'm actually ok with the quieter 'watch your speed' nagging - its annoying - but a nice reminder I'm going too fast (its arguably some of road limits that are wrong, and not the car here), and its not intrusive, and I know what it means and how to react without taking eyes off the road. 
But the stupid loud BEEEEEP for every roadsign change (whether its on your own road, or just a nearby one that the car incorrectly saw) is the biggest issue for me. 
I know the speed limit has changed, cos I'm driving past the sign. Even if it only did it when stepping down from say 40 to 30, and I was going say 40 at the time - that would be ok. But when I'm doing 30 in a 30 and the next sign says 40, why do I need a BEEEEEP? 
If I missed it, I could glance at the HUD or display and see the stored value from the last sign, if it really mattered that much - but it doesn't, and it shouldn't. 
Grrrr. 
Anyway...Happy Wednesday 😆

Feeling your pain because I'll be feeling it from September. I bet Tesla has a one button to disable at start up.

[nlee]

1 hour ago, Nick72 said:

This is going to drive me nuts.

I'm presuming this is the passive ISA, otherwise there would be much more screaming. When the new models have active ISA, which also drops the power if you are overspeed, that will drive everyone nuts!

[Station]

9 hours ago, philip42h said:

Here's a less than authoritative explanation from WBAC, and in a bit more detail from mapbox ... while not authoritative they are easier to understand than the raw legislation and, I believe, accurate.

The key points:

• These systems became mandatory for new models from 6th July 2022 and will become mandatory for all new cars sold from 7th July 2024. So, any current model RAV4 that will be on sale through this year will have the system fitted.
• The system cannot rely on only a visual warning - it must have an audible or sensory warning built-in.
• While the system can be configured by the driver, it must return to its default state each time the car is switched on.

So, we are condemned to live with such systems ...

Options:

1. Buy an older car like mine ... OK, perhaps a silly suggestion.
2. Drive within the speed limits - after all that's what the system is encouraging us to do. It's a bit like the introductory of mandatory seat belts - those of us old enough to remember were up in arms about the "infringement of our liberties" but they are now an unobtrusive part of everyday motoring.
3. Reconfigure the system every time you set off.
4. Hope that the 'problem' can be resolved through personalisation - I'm not sure whether the Toyota systems are yet up to this. If you just step into the car and drive as a 'guest', the system must return to the default configuration. If you can effectively log-in to the car as a specific individual, the system should be able to automatically restore your stored driving preferences.

I don't have a fancy new car so I can't check out what is possible ... 😉

Thanks for the info 👍 

Such a PITA system 😞

[Station]

1 hour ago, Nick72 said:

I hope it can be disabled in less than 2 button presses or I'll be really angry if I have to spend a minute delving into 4 layers deep into the menus each time.

I now leave the 'settings' cog in the middle of the display, then its a press to enter settings and 3 or 4 'up' moves to highlight the offending culprit and an 'ok' to deselect its operation !

Then exit, till the next time i stop and restart - absolutely ridiculous 🤬

[P_J]

Right - I've had a good play with this now. 
And I'm happy-er. 
If you leave the RSA option turned on, but set just the speed limit change alert to visual only, and then don't toggle the RSA option back off again - it sticks. 
As in, the option stays set. 
So the loud BEEEEEP for every road sign is now just a flashing sign on the display, which is arguably useful but not annoying. 

I'm going to see how far I can relax the speed limit warnings next, before they reset and turn back on again. 
I'll let you know how this goes, but this is already a vast improvement. 
 

[philip42h]

2 hours ago, P_J said:

If you leave the RSA option turned on, but set just the speed limit change alert to visual only, and then don't toggle the RSA option back off again - it sticks. 

Which is exactly how mine has worked "straight out of the box" since 2020. A little red 'overspeed' since can be a useful reminder to check but it's hardly a distraction. 👍

I haven't bothered to mess with the overspeed 'allowance' - who cares anyway ... 😉 

[Nick72]

Phew! Problem gone. Just set it to visual alert only. That works. Less annoying and distracting. And adds value.

[P_J]

The 'exceeding speed limit by >1mph' alert cannot be pacified permanently in this way. 
Its turns itself on at each restart.

Couldn't see an option to modify the tolerance to +5mph anywhere. Is that somewhere else?
That would make it perfect I think. 

[philip42h]

3 hours ago, P_J said:

Couldn't see an option to modify the tolerance to +5mph anywhere. Is that somewhere else?

You'd need to look carefully in the Owner's Manual specific to your car.

In the manual that I think is yours it states:

• Excess speed notification level*4: 2 km/h (1 mph), 5 km/h (3 mph), 10 km/h (5 mph)
• *4: The customized setting varies according to country

So it may be that the 2 km/h (1 mph) option is all you get ...

[secretsquirel]

On 3/7/2024 at 12:20 PM, P_J said:

Right - I've had a good play with this now. 
And I'm happy-er. 
If you leave the RSA option turned on, but set just the speed limit change alert to visual only, and then don't toggle the RSA option back off again - it sticks. 
As in, the option stays set. 
So the loud BEEEEEP for every road sign is now just a flashing sign on the display, which is arguably useful but not annoying. 

I'm going to see how far I can relax the speed limit warnings next, before they reset and turn back on again. 
I'll let you know how this goes, but this is already a vast improvement. 
 

I have just tried that with mine but it just resets once the ignition is turned off 🤬

[P_J]

1 hour ago, philip42h said:

So it may be that the 2 km/h (1 mph) option is all you get ...

I have looked carefully, and found what you quoted, so I've come to the same conclusion: 1 mph over is all we can get in the UK. 
Disappointing its not customisable. Permanently. 

[P_J]

36 minutes ago, secretsquirel said:

I have just tried that with mine but it just resets once the ignition is turned off 🤬

I think if you choose no notification, it resets. 
But choosing visual only, seems to stick. 

Basically anything which causes the orange warning indication to pop on the display seems to cause a reset to default when car next started. 

[Nick72]

5 hours ago, P_J said:

I have looked carefully, and found what you quoted, so I've come to the same conclusion: 1 mph over is all we can get in the UK. 
Disappointing its not customisable. Permanently. 

And an issue when the Speedo is about 2.5mph fast at 30, 5mph fast at 70. 

[Kivirage]

Same problem here. Got my RAV4 Plugin Hybrid yesterday (country: Estonia)

- Disabling "Alert on speed limit change" works ok (permanently)

- Changing over speed limit alert to "Visual Only" resets back to "Visual and Sound" after every restart. 

This is driving me crazy too. Asked my Toyota dealer, waiting for an answer. But I have the feeling that due to EU laws, we won't be able to do anything (unless there is a backdor for dealer's to disable RSA permanently). 

Heartbreaking, as I was so happy with the car. 

[biniware]

The warning beeper is located in the instrument cluster. If you take it out you can remove the source of the sound. However, this is not a trivial task.

[Rav Rob]

EU rules and its annoying but now mandated safety systems have to reactivate. I hear on some brands with more sophisticated screens, you can at least program your own shortcut buttons including ones to go straight to the annoyance setting menu so you can easily deactivate it.

The self resetting speed warning is just the start to get us used to it. Further rules to come will make the car limited to the speed limit but can be overidden temporarily. Final step will be to ban the overide.

We all see the problems with trucks that all have a slight calibration difference in their limiters trying to pass each other, imagine every vehicle in the road in the same situation? It will be a nightmare.

Problem is if you took your Corolla back what else would you buy? Any new car now will have the same issues.

[ernieb]

It will only get worse. Driver awareness monitors etc. 

[Flatcoat]

The pings and bongs are increasingly legal requirements from our Nannie’s in government’s around the world but especially Brussels. Apparently we can’t be allowed to think for ourself, it might be dangerous. 

[Loanwheeler]

On 2/1/2024 at 10:11 AM, Beefstah said:

Excellent idea...sadly let down by the manual being wrong, and the notification level setting simply not existing!

And if I set the 'Above speed Limit' notification to 'No Notification', it resets itself on the next engine start, as the attached video shows.