Intelligent Speed Assistance - speed warnings

[SDR]

I've just joined the forum having recently taken delivery of a new 24 plate Corolla TS.   Spotted this discussion as have found the subject items a general pain.   First post...

Spent quite a lot of time wrestling with manual and TSS set up.   Most of it is OK, to be fair.  Exceptions, for me, are LDA and RSA (specifically, the speed warnings).    The LTA I can take or leave, according to road type and mood, but it is simple to enable/disable with the steering wheel button. 

Being a 24 MY car, the RSA defaults to 'on', and the speed warning resets to audio and visual, every time the car is started.   Which I wouldn't mind if it was always correct but, inevitably, it isn't.   The 'change of speed limit' beep can be permanently disabled but not the overspeed beeps.   And the LDA also defaults to 'on' every time the car is started.

I used to fly as a hobby, pre-start and pre-flight checks are just normal and accepted routine.   I've just taken the same approach with the Corolla.   I leave the settings menu permanently displayed in the centre area between the 2 dials.   It is just a few button pushes to turn off the LDA.   Ditto the RSA (for short journeys).   For longer journeys I leave the RSA on and go into the sub-menu to change the overspeed warning to visual only (this has to be done whilst stationary).

So that's the way I do it.   Slightly irritating to not be able to keep preferences set up as I would like;   but not prepared to let this detract from what I am otherwise finding to be a good car.

 

 

[CPN]

4 minutes ago, SDR said:

I used to fly as a hobby, pre-start and pre-flight checks are just normal and accepted routine.   I've just taken the same approach with the Corolla.   I leave the settings menu permanently displayed in the centre area between the 2 dials.   It is just a few button pushes to turn off the LDA.   Ditto the RSA (for short journeys).   For longer journeys I leave the RSA on and go into the sub-menu to change the overspeed warning to visual only (this has to be done whilst stationary).

So that's the way I do it.   Slightly irritating to not be able to keep preferences set up as I would like;   but not prepared to let this detract from what I am otherwise finding to be a good car.

Completely agree with all you have said Simon and I now do the pre-drive checks in the same way as you have outlined. As you say, don't let it detract from how good the car is because they are excellent.

[MC1216]

At least Lexus have made it slightly easier although i do prefer the Mazda system were you can switch it off on a button although they all default to on every time you restart the car.

One useful feature of the central screen is the ability to quickly access often-used functions. The LBX memorises which ones are accessed most frequently, and a press of an on-screen button accesses them. This is particularly handy to deactivate the car's road-sign recognition software - this beeps every time a road sign is detected and also alerts you when you've momentarily crept over the last detected speed limit, even by 1mph.

[Nick72]

Can I just check that the warning beep only occurs once when going above the speed limit (which it most certainly isn't given the Speedo is fast versus GPS calibration speed)? I think I could just about cope with one beep but not repeatedly beeping if the Speedo says 75mph when in fact it's 69 or 70mph actual speed on the motorway!

[SDR]

I can say with certainty that, on 24MY Corolla, the overspeed bleeps continue for some time.   I'm not sure if they stop after a certain period;   I think that they might, but I decided to sort the issue within a very short time of getting the car (as above) so I can't be sure. 

FWIW, the speedo on my car over-reads by about 3mph at 60mph.

[FROSTYBALLS]

33 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

which it most certainly isn't given the Speedo is fast versus GPS calibration speed)? I think I could just about cope with one beep but not repeatedly beeping if the Speedo says 75mph when in fact it's 69 or 70mph actual speed on the motorway!

Legally in the EU/UK the indicated speed shown on a speedometer must never be less than the actual speed, i.e. it should not be possible to inadvertently speed because of an incorrect speedometer reading. The indicated speed must not be more than 110 percent of the true speed plus 4 km/h (2.5 mph) at specified test speeds.

Additionally in the UK, the indicated speed must not be more than 110 percent of the true speed plus at all actual speeds between 25 mph and 70 mph (or the vehicles' maximum speed if it is lower than this), the indicated speed must not exceed 110% of the actual speed, plus 6.25 mph.

For example, if the vehicle is actually traveling at 50 mph, the speedometer must not show more than 61.25 mph or less than 50 mph.

The GPS indicated speed is an average over a given number of points.

[SDR]

GPS indicated speed should be accurate when travelling at a constant speed along a straight and level road.

It isn't accurate when ascending or descending a hill (because it is measuring speed horizontally across the Earth's surface).   Nor when the road isn't straight (because sampling rate causes a dot-to-dot puzzle effect).

[Nick72]

18 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Legally in the EU/UK the indicated speed shown on a speedometer must never be less than the actual speed, i.e. it should not be possible to inadvertently speed because of an incorrect speedometer reading. The indicated speed must not be more than 110 percent of the true speed plus 4 km/h (2.5 mph) at specified test speeds.

Additionally in the UK, the indicated speed must not be more than 110 percent of the true speed plus at all actual speeds between 25 mph and 70 mph (or the vehicles' maximum speed if it is lower than this), the indicated speed must not exceed 110% of the actual speed, plus 6.25 mph.

For example, if the vehicle is actually traveling at 50 mph, the speedometer must not show more than 61.25 mph or less than 50 mph.

The GPS indicated speed is an average over a given number of points.

Great post thanks Frosty.

I think that's why the Speedo is fast biased than slower biased. There's no way you can exceed the actual speed limit from using the speedo because it's telling you you're at the speed limit when you're really several mph below it. Likely also because the manufacturers don't want to be sued. The car made me do it argument. But not making it over bias the speed that it gets them into a different legal argument as you allude.

Same on all my past cars but seems particularly pronounced on my RAV versus GPS speed (straight and level on the motorway). It was about 2mph fast on my Merc at all speeds. GPS sample times on the device I've used, in addition to Waze average GPS speed, is 10Hz. So a much more accurate average measure than the Speedo on the car. Caveat being straight and level driving given altitude accuracy (vertical distance) is relatively poor on GPS given alignment of a patch of the Earth's surface with the satellite constellation, which is optimised for horizontal or azimuthal positioning.

[Roy124]

Really there is only one argument- the speed sign recognition is wrong or is wrongly interpreted.

In all other cases keep the speed at or below the limit.

There is, perhaps,  an underused setting on the steering wheel - speed limiter.  For London I set 20 and Bournemouth 30.  If other traffic wants to drive at +5 they are free to overtake.

[Beefstah]

32 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Really there is only one argument- the speed sign recognition is wrong or is wrongly interpreted.

That's the problem - it's wrong a lot, and alert fatigue means it just gets ignored or disabled, making it useless.

I turn it off every time I start driving because of the frequent inaccuracy. Every time. If I could set it to +5 or +10%, I'd leave it on.

 

[Cyker]

My most hilarious one so far has been when it thinks the speed limit is 20kph on a 40mph road  

[Roy124]

6 minutes ago, Cyker said:

My most hilarious one so far has been when it thinks the speed limit is 20kph on a 40mph road  

I had 10 on 40, same difference. 

[Beefstah]

Oh yes, I forgot about my GRY occasionally reading signs in kph. However that doesn't beep at me about it, so it's not a problem.

[Nick72]

I've been looking at the Lexus 450h+ PHEV thinking perhaps that may have a better implementation of the speed limit warning but alas not. You got to disable the beeping each time you switch the car on. 🤷 Reviewer mentions it towards the end. Horrific colour btw.

 

[nlee]

7 hours ago, Nick72 said:

I've been looking at the Lexus 450h+ PHEV thinking perhaps that may have a better implementation of the speed limit warning but alas not. You got to disable the beeping each time you switch the car on. 🤷 Reviewer mentions it towards the end. Horrific colour btw.

 

This will be the case for any new car that has been type approved since July 2022. It will apply to any new car sold from July 2024 even if it hasn't had a model upgrade since 2022. I believe it also applies to vehicles in "stock" that must have it retrofitted. I suppose the only variation between manufacturers is the sound and volume of the alert, or how accessible they make it to temporarily disable.

[philip42h]

10 minutes ago, nlee said:

This will be the case for any new car that has been type approved since July 2022. It will apply to any new car sold from July 2024 even if it hasn't had a model upgrade since 2022. I believe it also applies to vehicles in "stock" that must have it retrofitted. I suppose the only variation between manufacturers is the sound and volume of the alert, or how accessible they make it to temporarily disable.

There are alternatives to the "cascading acoustic alert" - though I am really not sure that they would be any better or less annoying.

There is a legislative requirement to make the system easy to reenable while driving. If that piece is implemented well, it should be equally easy to disable the acoustic alert while driving - which doesn't appear to be the case in current Toyota or Lexus models.

And, on top of that, with increasing 'personalisation' it should be possible for manufacturers to comply with the legislation by resetting the alert system when the car is turned on and then automatically configure the car to the driver's requirement in terms of seating position, display and alert settings.

Well, we can but hope ...

[ThomasL]

1 hour ago, nlee said:

It will apply to any new car sold from July 2024 ... I believe it also applies to vehicles in "stock" that must have it retrofitted.

I wonder if we will see garage stock that doesn't comply dropping in price massively this and next month...!

[philip42h]

1 minute ago, ThomasL said:

I wonder if we will see garage stock that doesn't comply dropping in price massively this and next month...!

That wouldn't apply to much Toyota stock - Toyota have been building compliant cars for well over a year now ... You'd probably have to find an unused 2022MY RAV4 that they now couldn't sell!

[Nick72]

11 hours ago, nlee said:

This will be the case for any new car that has been type approved since July 2022. It will apply to any new car sold from July 2024 even if it hasn't had a model upgrade since 2022. I believe it also applies to vehicles in "stock" that must have it retrofitted. I suppose the only variation between manufacturers is the sound and volume of the alert, or how accessible they make it to temporarily disable.

So if in 2 or less button presses I could disable it I'd be happy. Not happy is trying to find it in multilayered menus for 2 minutes every time I set off. 

Even being able to set the warning at 3mph above the limit would be helpful since that will be closer to the actual speed limit given the fast Speedo.

Is it a legal requirement then for the system to enable beeps and visuals each time the car is started, and illegal to have a cancel it forever switch, or cancel just the beeps forever switch.

The car already sounds like a Nintendo Gameboy. 😂

[SDR]

8 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

So if in 2 or less button presses I could disable it I'd be happy. Not happy is trying to find it in multilayered menus for 2 minutes every time I set off. 

Even being able to set the warning at 3mph above the limit would be helpful since that will be closer to the actual speed limit given the fast Speedo.

Is it a legal requirement then for the system to enable beeps and visuals each time the car is started, and illegal to have a cancel it forever switch, or cancel just the beeps forever switch.

The car already sounds like a Nintendo Gameboy. 😂

I have a MY24 Corolla with this setup and, yes, the overspeed warning resets to audio and visual every time the car is started.  There is no 'cancel beeps' forever option.  Neither is there a option to set it to activate at limit +3 or +5, etc..

I do, however, have dealing with this down to a fine art;   or so I tell myself. 

I leave 'Settings' in the centre configurable area (since there are two other configurable areas on the 12.3" display).   Press OK for the list.  Down 1 to select LDA .  Turn off (as I hate it).   Up 4 for RSA.   Either turn off or go into sub-menu, notifications, change speed warning to visual only.

I can do this within 30 secs of the READY light coming up.   Working on improving that...

It is possible to turn off LDA and RSA on the fly but not possible to access the RSA sub-menu unless stationary. 

Apart from this stuff, I really like the car BTW 🙂 

[philip42h]

1 hour ago, Nick72 said:

Is it a legal requirement then for the system to enable beeps and visuals each time the car is started, and illegal to have a cancel it forever switch, or cancel just the beeps forever switch.

If the manufacturer has adopted the "cascading acoustic alert" option then yes, yes and yes. As I read it, the acoustic alerts must be enabled each time the car is switched on.

[Nick72]

Looks like I'm either going to go insane, or, I'll be driving at 26mph in a 30 and 64mph on the motorway. FFS but may be that's a good thing. Apart from when it doesn't recognise the signs properly.

I'll just have to remember to disable the audio warning if going on a long trip.

[Roy124]

8 hours ago, Nick72 said:

 I'll be driving at 26mph in a 30 and 64mph on the motorway. FFS but may be that's what they want.

Apart from the RSA picking up the wrong speeds,  the other is all the earlier models being driven at 30/70 etc.

It is pretty obvious when another driver is habitually used to driving at mid-30s and I am driving at 30 indicated.  They ride my bumper in frustration. 

The village stretch I am thinking of is just 600 yards and includes the school bus run.

Assuming an uninterrupted 36mph dash you would save 9 seconds.

A 20 mile commute at a true 70 would save you 90 seconds. Less time than drinking your first cup of coffee. 

[philip42h]

8 hours ago, Nick72 said:

I'll just have to remember to disable the audio warning if going on a long trip.

I wouldn't have a problem with longer trips. I'm perfectly happy to set the DRCC to the car's version of 70 (aka 66.5-ish) and accept the 5% longer drive time in exchange for the more relaxed journey. Similarly, I wouldn't be too bothered by the occasional 'beep' if I were to accelerate to overtake something - I just hate folk who merely drive alongside without any apparent intent to get the pass done.

I might have more issues on shorter journeys on A and B roads where I don't use DRCC but drive conventionally. Under these circumstance I am more likely to lean on or marginally exceed the limit - as, I suspect, most of us do. Then, maybe, a gentle nag isn't such a bad thing when done appropriately.

Two cars ago, Toyota 'Jane', the satnav lady, used to [optionally] give warnings - "You are over the speed limit". I used to opt to have this 'on' and tell her to 'shut-up' when I already knew and wasn't interested or apologise when I hadn't realised. Madness I know but I don't object to a helpful warn - I do object to an anonymous distracting 'beep'.

[Roy124]

8 minutes ago, philip42h said:

Toyota 'Jane', the satnav lady, used to [optionally] give warnings - "You are over the speed limit". I used to opt to have this 'on' and tell her to 'shut-up' when I already knew and wasn't interested or apologise when I hadn't realised. Madness I know but I don't object to a helpful warn

I had a POI Warner on my PDI (pre-phones) and 'b itching Brunhilda' is a strict German accent. 

One day, as a passenger in a coach I had switched on the Sat Nag to see where we were.

Moments later, from 3 rows behind driver Brunhilda sounds off "Slow down, you are exceeding the speed limit".

The result was instanteous.  The coach perked and swerved and the driver peered back with a mutinous expression.   Mind you, she was right 🤣