Sadiq's Unwanted Vehicles

[Bper]

London could introduce SUV parking charge, Sadiq Khan indicates

The London mayor, Sadiq Khan, has said he will monitor the effectiveness of Paris’s plan to increase parking charges for sports utility vehicles if it is approved in an upcoming referendum.

Khan was speaking at an event at which he apologised on behalf of the Greater London Authority to the family of Ella Adoo-Kissi-Debrah, who died in 2013, aged nine, as a result of London’s dirty air.

Anne Hidalgo, the mayor of Paris, has said she wants to push SUVs out of the city and limit emissions and air pollution. Announcing the policy in December, she declared: “It is a form of social justice.” Paris will hold a referendum on Sunday asking residents to vote for or against a specific parking tariff for heavy, large and polluting SUVs.

Paris mayor plans to triple SUV parking tariffs to cut air pollution

Khan welcomed Hidalgo’s plan and said he would watch it closely. We always examine policies around the globe. I’m a firm believer in stealing good policies. Rather than inventing new policies badly, if other cities are doing stuff that works, we will copy them.”

Khan said he knew SUVs were a particular problem that needed to be tackled: “SUVs take up more space and we know there’s issues around road safety, we know there’s issues around carbon emissions and so forth. We know some councils in London are taking bold policies in relation to parking fees, in relation to your tickets and so forth. It’s really good to work with those councils.”

A spokesperson for Khan later said that the mayor does not currently have the power to implement parking levies on SUVs and has no plans to do so.😡

[dannyboy413]

I wonder what the defintion of a "heavy, large and poluuting" SUV is/will be?

[Cyker]

Ah, now see, parliament "couldn't" do anything about ULEZ, but I bet they'd magically conjure up legislation to block this since, it would affect them  

I'm in two minds about this as SUVs have no business being in London anyway, but  given the deterioration of the roads you practically need an off-road vehicle on some roads. Ultimately, we all know this is just the thin end of yet another wedge for his boundless greed.

With car manufacturers increasingly only selling mostly SUVs and almost all EVs being SUVs, I can just see him rubbing grubby little mitts together thinking he's found another revenue stream that most people will find difficult to avoid.

 

56 minutes ago, dannyboy413 said:

I wonder what the defintion of a "heavy, large and poluuting" SUV is/will be?

That's a good point actually, if it's based on footprint and mass, that would also include things like Teslas, as they are actually as wide and heavy as most SUVs  

  

1 hour ago, Bper said:

 

A spokesperson for Khan later said that the mayor does not currently have the power to implement parking levies on SUVs and has no plans to do so.😡

Ahh, like he had no plans to extend the ULEZ again up to the M25... so expect this in a few months then...?

 

[Cyker]

<oops delete me dupe dupe>

[Torrox]

I think Paris defines suv as 1.6 tonnes.

[Mjolinor]

Twenty years ago I consciously made the decision to run small cars. I decided that for the times I needed to move something that needed a big car it would be cheaper and easier to hire one for the day. It seemed ridiculous to drive about in my Merc, on my own for 95% of journeys.

I currently run a Smart car that basically costs me nothing to run, tax is £0, insurance is under £200 and it does 80 MPG if I am careful. It cost me £170 to buy back from the insurance after a motor bike bit it. I do under 3000 miles a year so really it is not a cost that needs to be budgeted for with the biggest expense, after insurance, being the MOT every year.

If everyone thought like that then emissions from cars would not be a problem and the tree huggers could concentrate on the real problems such as shipping and flying.

 

 

[Haliotis]

My Toyota C-HR is classed as a “SUV” - Sports Utility Vehicle - and it has nothing to do with size. Emissions or gas-guzzling. Mine is a hybrid, and exempt from the LUZ charge.  So, Sadiq Khan needs to get himself educated as to what a SUV actually is.  

[Bper]

1 hour ago, Mjolinor said:

Twenty years ago I consciously made the decision to run small cars. I decided that for the times I needed to move something that needed a big car it would be cheaper and easier to hire one for the day. It seemed ridiculous to drive about in my Merc, on my own for 95% of journeys.

I currently run a Smart car that basically costs me nothing to run, tax is £0, insurance is under £200 and it does 80 MPG if I am careful. It cost me £170 to buy back from the insurance after a motor bike bit it. I do under 3000 miles a year so really it is not a cost that needs to be budgeted for with the biggest expense, after insurance, being the MOT every year.

If everyone thought like that then emissions from cars would not be a problem and the tree huggers could concentrate on the real problems such as shipping and flying.

 

 

Hi John, you are right but it doesn't suit everyone needs. It's very low costs to own one of these smart cars and certainly has it's place.

We have seen many people with large SUV's etc that just use them to go to the shops and local journeys. I have asked a few people in the past what made them buy one and a few said it gives them more security in the event of an accident and others have said it's either for their dogs or they want to be higher up and have a larger space.

The ones that I spoke were mostly of a older generation so family had left home and it was just the two of them.🙁

[Bper]

10 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

My Toyota C-HR is classed as a “SUV” - Sports Utility Vehicle - and it has nothing to do with size. Emissions or gas-guzzling. Mine is a hybrid, and exempt from the LUZ charge.  So, Sadiq Khan needs to get himself educated as to what a SUV actually is.  

Albert, your SUV is a heavy vehicle and puts a huge amount of pressure on our roads that obviously leads to bigger pot holes. This earth is already sinking deeper into space though the weight of these vehicles.

I know this is correct because I read it in the Daily Star. 😂

[Mjolinor]

2 minutes ago, Bper said:

Hi John, you are right but it doesn't suit everyone needs. It's very low costs to own one of these smart cars and certainly has it's place.

We have seen many people with large SUV's etc that just use them to go to the shops and local journeys. I have asked a few people in the past what made them buy one and a few said it gives them more security in the event of an accident and others have said it's either for their dogs or they want to be higher up and have a larger space.

The ones that I spoke were mostly of a older generation so family had left home and it was just the two of them.🙁

People say that a lot about Smart but their crash rating is really good.

Top gear crashed one

[Haliotis]

16 minutes ago, Bper said:

Albert, your SUV is a heavy vehicle and puts a huge amount of pressure on our roads that obviously leads to bigger pot holes. This earth is already sinking deeper into space though the weight of these vehicles.

I know this is correct because I read it in the Daily Star. 😂

Hi, Bob.  The C-HR SUV has a weight of between 1,430kg - 1,695kg.  The VW Passat has a weight of between 1,479kg - 1,754kg so is heavier.  

Our son has a VW Passat - 2-litre diesel.  His excise duty is £30 per year, yet is not exempt from the ULEZ.  Crazy!!!

[Bper]

8 minutes ago, Mjolinor said:

People say that a lot about Smart but their crash rating is really good.

Top gear crashed one

It's an interesting video that shows the rigidity of the cage but doubt you would be able to drive at 70 mph in town which I assume where most of these smart cars are used. Still surprising how they are more robust then I thought.  I wonder if they would sell more if they put a Mercedes Badge on them. Didn't know that a four door version was made.😀

[Bper]

4 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

Hi, Bob.  The C-HR SUV has a weight of between 1,430kg - 1,695kg.  The VW Passat has a weight of between 1,479kg - 1,754kg so is heavier.  

Our son has a VW Passat - 2-litre diesel.  His excise duty is £30 per year, yet is not exempt from the LUZ.  Crazy!!!

Albert, putting my sense of humour aside for one minute ever time Sadiq Khan says he will not do something he goes ahead with it regardless of public opinion. It is and has always been about revenue to meet the London shortfall and debt that he has resided over during his tenure as Mayor all sold under air pollution and green agenda.😠

 

[Mjolinor]

Mercedes never made a profit on any Smart. In 2014 they stopped making them and Renault took over.

[Bper]

25 minutes ago, Mjolinor said:

Mercedes never made a profit on any Smart. In 2014 they stopped making them and Renault took over.

I can't seem to see a reference to Smart being taken over by Renault as they make the Twizzy. Daimler which is the parent company of Mercedes and Geely holding group joint ventured in 2019 to make smart cars in China and sold world wide.

[Mjolinor]

Yes, it is still Merc but all the parts are not. They are either Renault or Mitsubishi (IIRC).

[Benzowner]

Read on the news this morning Paris will be charging SUV's over 1600kg €19 per hour to park and the best bit electric SUV's over 2000kg the same price, so it has nothing to do with polluton as usual.

[Mjolinor]

12 minutes ago, Benzowner said:

Read on the news this morning Paris will be charging SUV's over 1600kg €19 per hour to park and the best bit electric SUV's over 2000kg the same price, so it has nothing to do with polluton as usual.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68196828

[Puglet]

Ah well, I suppose Paris banning SUVs leaves more room for the farmer's tractors 🤣, as for London Transport for London has some big holes to fill, so the moving goal posts will errr move again. Just waiting for the new Aygo X with it's SUVish styling to fall into this category, if that gets banned then no hope.

Back in the day, we looked at Smart ForTwo, but the price and the gearbox put me off, so we got Peugeot 107 instead, still small, toyota reliability and you get 2 extra seats!

[skidlid]

Anything that stops the proliferation of these unnecessary SUV type vehicles should be applauded in my opinion.

It should also be extended to include electric cars with stupidly powerful motors that give them higher performance than a super car had a few years ago.

Its all totally unnecessary, I had a Golf GTi with 112 bhp that did 0-60 in about 8.5 seconds and it was considered a Hot Hatch, it was plenty fast enough then and with todays congested roads should be fast enough now. My car has 218 PS, the wifes 110 PS, does that extra 108 PS get us from A-B any quicker, no it doesn't.

Time to legislate these monsters off the road once and for all.

[skidlid]

We had offices in various parts of the country at the last company I worked for. The directors and senior staff got a company car and they were given a monthly lease figure and could choose anything up to that figure. Most went for large Audi's, Volvos and BMW's, a couple had a Mitsubishi PHEV (paid less BIK) as did the chap who had an Auris estate (hated it but little BIK). The director at the central London office chose a Yaris Hybrid (would have been a Mk3) and many thought he was mad getting a car that was less than 1/2 of his allowance.

Whose mad now?

[Haliotis]

I have been looking at SUV v Hatchback descriptions and, not surprisingly, some models can be described as either SUV or Hatchback.  Generally, a SUV (sports utility vehicle) has a more chunky appearance and sits a bit higher on the road.  My Toyota C-HR could quite easily be called a hatchback - there are other makes of cars on the roads which resemble the C-HR and are classed as hatchbacks.  It is also possible that manufacturers call a car a SUV because they feel this ‘badge’ attracts potential customers more than “hatchback”.

So, Sadiq Khan and similar bigots are basing their prejudice simply on vehicle style and the class applied by the manufacturer - it has absolutely nothing to do with effects on air quality, wear on the roads, pedestrian safety or footprint.   My previous VW Touran MPV (another alternative description) was of similar weight and footprint, AND had more BHP than my C-HR.

Therefore, Sadiq Khan, cease your corrupt plans now!

[Cyker]

The problem is it's all stick and no carrot - People don't respond well to the adversarial approach all these schemes have taken, and it's made worse by the fact that the reasons they claim for implementing them are clearly horse poop and it's really all about them screwing more money out of people.

I've long said that if they were serious, the powers that be need to copy Japan and introduce something like their Kei car specs - Smaller cars that have lower tax and insurance costs, even lower road tolls.

It gives something for manufactures to design around and gives incentive to choose them over bigger cars.

I love Kei cars, and how creative the manufacturers have been trying to design the cars within the limitations set out.

However, that wouldn't give the government types the fat payouts they drool over. They want to catch people out - That's why e.g. there was no real attempt at any official publicity or advertisement about either of the ULEZ extensions, and ULEZ signs only went up a couple weeks before it went live, and not even at full coverage, and e.g. there wasn't even a scrappage scheme for the first extension, and for the 2nd extension they made a token fund and even then it was pushed back until after the 2nd extension was active.

Currently, there basically isn't any reason to *not* buy an SUV - People feel safer because they're higher up and are surrounded by a battering ram of steel. Car manufacturers are increasingly switching to them because they can make more profit and it's easier to get higher NCAP ratings with them, while there is less and less incentive to build small cars because of lower profit margins and difficulty in getting higher NCAP ratings.

 

[Haliotis]

Cyker said, “there basically isn’t any reason to *not* buy a SUV”, and he is correct in that comment.  SUV stands for Sports Utility Vehicle and, in reality, does not represent anything other than a vehicle body style that is familiar to the purchaser.  Station wagon, a term which indicates a workhorse, is now called an estate car.  Our son has a VW Passat estate car, and I once owned VW Touran MPV’s.  Whilst slightly different in body style and seating layouts, both serve the same purpose, except that the luggage boot of the MPV converted to seats 6 and 7.

Over he years we have seen Saloon, Estate, Stationwagon, Sedan, Coupe, Cabriolet, Convertible, Tourer, SUV, MPV etc., which in every case simply describes a different style of motor vehicle.  None of these terms has anything to do with a vehicle’s environmental status.  Sadiq Khan has now latched onto SUV’s for two reasons - (1) he can smell money, and (2) he is ignorant as to what the term “SUV” really represents.

My C-HR is smaller than a great many cars which attract no attention regarding threats to the environment and, in the hands of the average driver, its road performance is no different to any other type of car.  It also has a moderate footprint.  It does sit slightly higher than an ordinary car - the only difference (and a benefit) is it is ergonomically more comfortable to drive - similar to my Touran MPV’s, and one of the reasons I chose it.

[Mjolinor]

SUV body styling is known to be less friendly to pedestrians in case of accident.

That alone is sufficient reason to penalise owners in my opinion.

Bonnet air bags are probably a fix so it would be unfair to blanket apply any sort of penalty but it does allow for more paper pushing so that is probably a good thing in the eyes of the powers that be.