Wrong Oil

[Jimmbo]

Argh. I told my mechanic to use  OW20 oil, per Toyota's recommendation, and he put in OW30. 

It's a warm area (Portugal), but I might drive to colder areas. Also, bearing clearances are set by the factory to accept a certain viscosity, so thicker oil can cause bearing damage.

Should I have it re-done?

I'll attach Toyota's recommendation (from the manual).

This is a 3rd generation hybrid.

[anchorman]

26 minutes ago, Jimmbo said:

Argh. I told my mechanic to use  OW20 oil, per Toyota's recommendation, and he put in OW30. 

It's a warm area (Portugal), but I might drive to colder areas. Also, bearing clearances are set by the factory to accept a certain viscosity, so thicker oil can cause bearing damage.

Should I have it re-done?

I'll attach Toyota's recommendation (from the manual).

This is a 3rd generation hybrid.

It shouldn’t matter as long as the API grade falls within those listed.  

[jimaros]

44 minutes ago, Jimmbo said:

Argh. I told my mechanic to use  OW20 oil, per Toyota's recommendation, and he put in OW30. 

It's a warm area (Portugal), but I might drive to colder areas. Also, bearing clearances are set by the factory to accept a certain viscosity, so thicker oil can cause bearing damage.

Should I have it re-done?

I'll attach Toyota's recommendation (from the manual).

This is a 3rd generation hybrid.

Everything comes down to you.

If this is going to eat you up and you won't stop thinking about it then change it. 

 

[Cyker]

IMHO the viscosity is close enough it's not worth changing, maybe just give your mechanic a stern talking to and/or next time buy the oil yourself from the dealer or something and tell them to use it (Which is what my dad always used to do in the old days as he never trusted the oil third-party garages used)

The important thing to check is the API oil spec as mentioned by others, as it's the additives in the oil that matter more, but unless they're willing to show you the spec sheet or bottles/drum used I'm not sure how you can check that as it's not something usually documented...

 

[Jimmbo]

2 hours ago, jimaros said:

Everything comes down to you.

If this is going to eat you up and you won't stop thinking about it then change it. 

 

If you’re very, very upset about my predicament, I can consider changing my auto repair strategy. LMK. 

[Jimmbo]

22 minutes ago, Cyker said:

IMHO the viscosity is close enough it's not worth changing, maybe just give your mechanic a stern talking to and/or next time buy the oil yourself from the dealer or something and tell them to use it (Which is what my dad always used to do in the old days as he never trusted the oil third-party garages used)

The important thing to check is the API oil spec as mentioned by others, as it's the additives in the oil that matter more, but unless they're willing to show you the spec sheet or bottles/drum used I'm not sure how you can check that as it's not something usually documented...

 

Yeah, I’m not getting that info out of him. 

[Roy124]

8 hours ago, Cyker said:

 next time buy the oil yourself from the dealer or something and tell them to use it (Which is what my dad always used to do in the old days as he never trusted the oil third-party garages used)

I always used to buy the best oil and after being charged for washer fluid and coolant always topped them up too.  

I wasn't cynical enough in those days to think the garage might have a selection of empty SupaGradSpeed oil cans and broken parts to show me.  😅 

[Mojo1010]

It will be fine, I had 5W30 at one point in my 3rd gen Yaris and no problem at all. Buy the oil yourself next time as others have said. 

[Tomv]

By Toyota dealer I was recommended to use 5w30 instead of 0w20 in my Corolla.The 5w30 is less expensive then 0w20 so the dealer was not trying to rip me off. I’m using it since the second oil change, no problems at all and as a bonus the engine is more silent .

[jimaros]

12 hours ago, Jimmbo said:

If you’re very, very upset about my predicament, I can consider changing my auto repair strategy. LMK. 

Sorry my English clearly ain't good enough to pass the meaning I'm trying to give. 

All I meant was that, despite what ever information and testaments anyone gives you... If it is going to be bothering you then an oil change tomorrow morning is the best and fastest solution for you. 

I hope that cleared what I'm trying to tell.

[Bernard Foy]

On my 23 Mark 4 Yaris before the first oil change I asked the dealership what grade of oil they’re going to use and they said 020w. I told them that Toyota recommended 08w. They wouldn’t believe me until I showed them the recommendation in the Yaris handbook. So ever since 08w oil is written on the service docket. It wouldn’t have done any harm, but the handbook said to put in 08w at the next oil change.

[Cyker]

3 hours ago, Tomv said:

By Toyota dealer I was recommended to use 5w30 instead of 0w20 in my Corolla.The 5w30 is less expensive then 0w20 so the dealer was not trying to rip me off. I’m using it since the second oil change, no problems at all and as a bonus the engine is more silent .

Do they charge you differently for what oil is used??

Here, the service price is fixed, so if they use cheap oil you still pay the same and they pocket the difference!

Using thicker oils shouldn't be too detrimental as long as it's rated for in the manual and it meets the API specs, but it will mean you need to be more careful when the oil is cold and the more efficient cars, esp. hybrids, tend to see a noticeable drop in mpg with thicker oils.

 

[TonyHSD]

Not an issue if within the same spec API .
Next change perhaps you can go back to 0w20 A5 GF-5 , or GF-6 as is latest standard.  Using 5w30 oil in 0w20 specs engine imo is one of the reasons why some cars developed earlier high oil consumption. Semi synthetic oils which is Toyota own label 5w30 is not so good against heat and gets burnt quicker than other fully synthetic oils all that causes buildup of carbon on piston rings, cylinder glaze and oil consumption. 

[RickyC]

18 hours ago, Cyker said:

Do they charge you differently for what oil is used??

Here, the service price is fixed, so if they use cheap oil you still pay the same and they pocket the difference!

Using thicker oils shouldn't be too detrimental as long as it's rated for in the manual and it meets the API specs, but it will mean you need to be more careful when the oil is cold and the more efficient cars, esp. hybrids, tend to see a noticeable drop in mpg with thicker oils.

 

In Italy, even if Toyota site indicates the service price, when you go to pay it will change, according to the used oil.  The Toyota site only indicates oil and filter change but there's no indicatio of the oli grade.  If the service price refer to 0w8 I think it's a bit hard that these prices could be realistic.

I expect that working times and hourly cost is fixed for all officilal services. 

On the first two services they put 5W30 with an option for 0W20 with a surcharge of about 10 €/lt.  

This year I've changed the service and they put 0W20.  

Cost apart, 0W20 could be better on cold climates but quickly looses lubrificant capability when it warms.   Maybe in North Europe 0W20 is ok, but in the South of Europe ( and I expect that Portugal climate is more similar to Italian tha UK one ) is very easy to reach more than 30 C in summer and 20/25 in spring.  

Probably a 0W30 oil could be the more equilibrate but I don't think that Toyota offer this grade.

Just a note.  PSA group recently sent a letter to customere and services to use 5W30 insted of the recomended 0W20 on they diesel engines because they discovered that 0W20 caused excessive component wearing. 

[Cyker]

Ooh, interesting! It's good to know the differences in how different countries' franchises' operate - Even Bernard, who has a Mk4 Yaris that specs 0w8, was getting given 0w20 originally (as apparently that's what they standardised on in Ireland), but upon querying this with the dealer started getting 0w8 at no extra cost in subsequent services (Although he did have to fight for it as they didn't believe him at first!  ).

If a UK dealer tried to charge more to use the specified oil they'd be up with Trading Standards pretty quick   

 

 

The thing with viscosity is it has to be matched to the engine - PSA were lazy, like a lot of marques, and just specced low viscosity oil to get their CO2 down without bothering to modify or redesign the engine to properly accommodate it, which naturally causes problems, as the engine was designed to use a thicker grade of oil! Toyota designed their engines to use thinner oils, and have the opposite problem - using too thick an oil will actually cause more wear over time! My Mk4 uses 0w8, which is hilariously thin, but the level is practically unchanged over a year because the engine was designed for it.

In an engine that has large tolerances, you have to use thicker oils to support the larger gaps; Thinner oils will let the components flop around too much, esp. when its not been fully pressurized. However, in engines designed for thinner oils, the tolerances are much tighter, so thinner oil works better as it can get in the gap easily and doesn't has the right film strength for the smaller distances; Thicker oils will struggle to flow through the tighter gaps and will just generally get in the way, causing unnecessary drag.

The key thing is thicker or thinner oils isn't good or bad for and engine per se - The important thing is to use the oil the engine was designed to be used with.

 

 

[Jimmbo]

It's monday morning, and I got a response to my email on Friday to the mechanic's secretary. She said:

Quote

"He did use 0w20. I noted it wrong. Sorry."

 

That is, obviously, the most expedient reply if he messed up. Or, hey, maybe it's true. Meanwhile, I'm living with Schrödinger's crankcase.

[bathtub tom]

3 hours ago, RickyC said:

Cost apart, 0W20 could be better on cold climates but quickly looses lubrificant capability when it warms.   Maybe in North Europe 0W20 is ok, but in the South of Europe ( and I expect that Portugal climate is more similar to Italian tha UK one ) is very easy to reach more than 30 C in summer and 20/25 in spring.

Ambient temperature has nothing to do with it (except warm up's quicker in a hot climate). The engine cooling system's designed to limit the maximum engine temperature and that's consistent wherever you are in the world once it's up to temperature.

[TonyHSD]

2 hours ago, tsikis007 said:

Same in here, I live in Athens Greece south west side today 26/2/2024 1:16 pm the temperature is 16°C the summer jumps to 40°C. If I used 0W-20 oil with ridiculous HTHS 2.6 or 2.9 I should have changed at least 3 engines by now in the 16 years of the car's life.
I am absolutely satisfied with the 10W-40 HTHS 3.5 AP SN oil from the beggining. I put in 3.1 liters oil and in the change I get 3.1 liters oil after 160K+ km. 

This with changing oil viscosity with age or mileage, or because you live in a hot climate country its not correct especially in hybrid cars. The thinner oils aren’t used only to reduce friction and increase fuel economy but also to provide better lubrication in those particular sudden high rpm high load start ups, when engine kicks in and spins a generator and propels the car at the same time. Best practice is to stick to the manufacturer recommended oil type and viscosity, and use the exact oil that car came out of factory with. 

[FROSTYBALLS]

3 hours ago, tsikis007 said:

If I used 0W-20 oil with ridiculous HTHS 2.6 or 2.9 I should have changed at least 3 engines by now in the 16 years of the car's life.

In fact for a 2007 Aygo, Toyota's preferred oil will be 5W-30. 

0W-20 is the preferred oil for those with the Optimal Drive engines which were introduced from February 2009.

[Parts-King]

Many modern cars have less oil in them than cars of old, often 2-3 Litres. They need low viscosity oils to get around the engine faster and more often 

[Tomv]

The Toyota dealer explained to me that the recommendation to use 5w30 was based on some SVD? (not sure if I remember it right) servis instructions from Toyota.

Just notice that I have the non hybrid old school 1.6 petrol engine. IMHO with hybrid it makes more sense to use thinner oil because as TonyHSD said, you are basically out of control of the engine revs and the engine can kick in when not warmed properly.

[Cyker]

3 hours ago, bathtub tom said:

Ambient temperature has nothing to do with it (except warm up's quicker in a hot climate). The engine cooling system's designed to limit the maximum engine temperature and that's consistent wherever you are in the world once it's up to temperature.

It kinda does in the sense that a colder ambient means you need to give the engine oil a bit more time to get to operating temperature before you rag it, and thinner oils will generally do better there, but as you say hot temps are not such an issue as the car will regulate it to stop it getting too hot.

The only exception I can think off is for track use, as the engine and oil will be much hotter than normal, and I know a lot of GR Yaris owners change to thicker oils on track days as they find the normal 0w20 starts to get burned off if they're having an extended run.

 

6 hours ago, Jimmbo said:

It's monday morning, and I got a response to my email on Friday to the mechanic's secretary. She said:

That is, obviously, the most expedient reply if he messed up. Or, hey, maybe it's true. Meanwhile, I'm living with Schrödinger's crankcase.

Ugh I hate that, I get the paranoia - Did they really mess up or are they lying to me! Sadly, short of sending an oil sample to a lab for analysis, I don't know of a way to test it easily as 0w20 and 0w30 look and feel identical at normal temperature...

As I said tho' it's not enough to be worth worrying about!

 

1 hour ago, tsikis007 said:

Connecting rod bearings and crankshaft are cooled and lubricated from engine oil and from coolant fluid. 

Engine oil yes, but you wouldn't want any coolant getting in there too!!!