ECVT v DSG

[bathtub tom]

1 hour ago, MikeSh said:

There was a 2L 'GT' version (360?) but that was only available with a manual box.

FIL had one of them. Sat on totally unsuitable 155x13 tyres for its weight, presumably because it didn't have power steering.

[MikeSh]

20 minutes ago, bathtub tom said:

it didn't have power steering

Oh yes. I'd forgotten about that sort of thing. The heavier engine certainly wouldn't have made that easier.

You know I can't remember the last cars we had without PS 🤔 . Had MK2 Micras for some years but I don't know now if they had PS or not.

[Tommy X]

2 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

 Here Toyota hybrids shines , the smoothest, the quietest and most relaxed drive of all cars, similar to bev. 
Just glide along the motorway, in cities or heavy traffic. 👍

Very smooth👍 and relaxing to drive👍 but certainly not the quietest 👎

[Pannett]

Over the years I've driven cars with manual, Borg Warner auto (my parents' cars), CVT and DSG gearboxes. Once I'd had my first car with a DSG I resolved never to go back to a manual box again. It is very hilly around here so the DSG is so helpful, for example the hairpins from beach level up to the town at Saltburn and the Hole of Horcum. All three DSG-equipped cars were Skodas and they were faultless, very smooth changes and although I did have manual paddles, I hardly used them as the transmission control unit always knew best. Manual gearboxes were great when I was young and particularly when driving my 1.9 litre Peugeot 205, I loved to go through the gears. Now I'm older and hopefully wiser, the automatic gearbox is more relaxing. The older torque converter automatic gearboxes were fine, smooth in use but tended to creep when stopped. The first CVT I drove was a DAF 55 and was awful. Once I was driving down Long Hill out of Buxton in icy conditions and when at one point I took my foot off the accelerator, the gear dropped into low and the back end of the car started to overtake me. Now I have the Corolla CVT it is faultless. Gear 'changes' are unnoticeable and the only audible experience is that at times, when I'm accelerating, it sounds as if the virtual clutch is slipping. My verdict? Best to worst: CVT, DSG, torque converter and manual. I would like to know how 'Park' works for a CVT. The DSG had a parking pawl to hold the car in place. Does anyone know how it works for a CVT?

[hind]

6 hours ago, MikeSh said:

You know I can't remember the last cars we had without PS

I can remember - it was Y1 from 2002 🙂 no A/C, no power steering, no ABS. You drive (and die!) like a real man 😄 

[Cyker]

I've driven a few cars without PS but never really had an issue with them - As long as you don't dry-steer and the vehicle doesn't have stupidly wide tyres it's not really a problem.

I've only driven 'normal' cars without PS though - I imagine these multi-ton land barges and their half-meter wide tyres would be a lot harder to steer without PS  

 

[anchorman]

10 hours ago, hind said:

Well, for example someone who doesn't constantly drive in traffic jams and can get the same car for 2000 GBP less just by sticking to well known to him manual transmission, like every previous car he owned? 😉 

The trouble is, not everyone (read that as most) don’t know how to use a manual box.  I live on a side road and virtually every vehicle that passes is howling in too low a gear.   Delivery drivers seem to think you only change up if it simply won’t rev any more.  That is also shared by so called enthusiasts who think they are a born racing driver.  

[Stopeter44]

9 hours ago, anchorman said:

who think they are a born racing driver.  

I have one of those on our street, he'll have an accident soon. He's 18 or so.

[Stopeter44]

22 hours ago, Pannett said:

Now I have the Corolla CVT it is faultless.

eCVT isn't  CVT as we knew it back in the day, because Toyota has a CVT in the Aygo X and it is nothing like the eCVT, or Hybrid Synergy Drive. It's worth looking into the various offerings on Youtube (Car Car Guy, for example.) that explain how MG1, MG2 and the ICE work together.

Edited March 6 by Stopeter44
I said eCVT wasn't strictly speaking CVT, well that went show what I knew

[bathtub tom]

28 minutes ago, Stopeter44 said:

eCVT isn't strictly speaking CVT

Of course it is, it's just not the old, sliding pulley of the original. It's definitely a Continuously Variable Transmission. I like the idea of labelling it E-CVT. Does the 'E' stand for epicyclic?

[Sooty]

@Stopeter44, I think the younger generations don't understand the variances of the analogue accelerator pedal. They seem to think that it is a digital stop and go pedal. It's either fully off or fully on. 😏🙄

[anchorman]

58 minutes ago, Stopeter44 said:

eCVT isn't strictly speaking CVT, because Toyota has a CVT in the Aygo X and it is nothing like the eCVT, or Hybrid Synergy Drive. It's worth looking into the various offerings on Youtube (Car Car Guy, for example.) that explain how MG1, MG2 and the ICE work together.

It most certainly is Peter.  I’ve highlighted the definition and a full description of the new 130 powertrain is available in the Toyota Media Room.  

230401-Yaris-Press-Pack.pdf

[bathtub tom]

1 hour ago, Sooty said:

@Stopeter44, I think the younger generations don't understand the variances of the analogue accelerator pedal. They seem to think that it is a digital stop and go pedal. It's either fully off or fully on. 😏🙄

I had a moped that was like that!

[Stopeter44]

I have my Dunce hat on. A question of semantics, continuously variable transmission, I just had that down as the old variomatic. 

[anchorman]

5 hours ago, Stopeter44 said:

I have my Dunce hat on. A question of semantics, continuously variable transmission, I just had that down as the old variomatic. 

Take it off at once, we share information and we learn a lot by doing so 👍

[mpm235]

I had a Skoda Octavia with the DSG. Horrendous pile of poo! Failed twice, in two years, leaving the car undrivable. First time was very expensive rebuild, second time traded it in as a scrapper. I think VAG made it out of tinfoil and blu tac. 

[Stopeter44]

FWIW, I had a Peugeot 208 EAT6, and found it very decent. I like HSD, eCVT or whatever you like to call it much better, and taken overall the best, but VAG does a great auto box behind a a 3 litre TDI.

[TonyHSD]

On 3/7/2024 at 12:53 AM, mpm235 said:

I had a Skoda Octavia with the DSG. Horrendous pile of poo! Failed twice, in two years, leaving the car undrivable. First time was very expensive rebuild, second time traded it in as a scrapper. I think VAG made it out of tinfoil and blu tac. 

I had an eye on late Octavia 2021-> as unfortunately I am out priced on Toyota hybrids at the moment. But these 1.0 tsi and dsg simply put  me off big time. Now reading your comments I think I did just fine replacing the Battery on my old Auris and try to get some more life out of it instead a new Skoda. Just can’t see myself driving anything different from these hybrids. 

[Tommy X]

47 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

I had an eye on late Octavia 2021-> as unfortunately I am out priced on Toyota hybrids at the moment. But these 1.0 tsi and dsg simply put  me off big time. 

Tony may I ask if you have ever driven a VAG car with the 1.0 ltr DSG, if not I would advise you to take a test drive it may change your view 

[SinglePointSafety]

I've driven a Skoda Scala with 1.0 TSi engine and DSG box. The car was nice enough but the 1-2 gear change was very noticeable and somewhat jerky (improved a bit when warm), the other gearchanges got progressively better up the range, and at speed the higher changes were barely perceptible. Very similar 'box-wise to a Kodiaq 2.0 TSi I owned for 2 years (which got sold for slightly more money than I'd paid for it....)

[Graham47]

Prior to Yarises I had two 1.2 Yetis, both DSG boxes and I loved them.  If Skoda hadn’t dropped the Yeti I might well still be owning one.  True replacement never materialised as the Kodiaq was bigger than the Yeti.

Far better than the i-shift in the Honda previous (which also got dropped for the CVT).

First thing I did was test drive the e-CVT in the Yaris to see if I could get on with it .

[Jimota]

During a 20 year spell when my wife and I owned a combination of Audi/VW/Skoda cars, 7 of which had S-tronic/DSG boxes, I never thought I’d move to another car manufacturer as they were all great in their own way.  However, as I was looking for a smallish self charging hybrid SUV last year, the Toyota Yaris Cross was the only car that came near to fulfilling my needs.  I still have an affection for Audi/VW/Skoda cars but the Toyota brand now ticks more boxes for me and have no regrets in making the changeover.

[TonyHSD]

4 hours ago, Tommy X said:

Tony may I ask if you have ever driven a VAG car with the 1.0 ltr DSG, if not I would advise you to take a test drive it may change your view 

Thanks. I haven’t driven one yet but I worked in the trade and I have driven many different cars with different transmission, engines etc and honestly for me the Toyota self charging hybrids are the best of all, plus I look at cars slightly differently and use them as business vehicles, covering 30-50k miles a year. All looked after by myself no garage service, only diy on my driveway. That’s why I am so much hooked into Toyota. 

[Jimota]

Think I’m still suffering from jet lag. My last message should have read 30 years of ownership not 20.

[Cyker]

I find DSGs are great when you're moving - Where they suck is at low speed, esp. if the lowest gear can't go slowly enough. Another thing that annoyed me about them is the fractional delay when moving off, particularly at roundabouts. Probably some are set up better than others, but all the ones I've tried fell short of my expectations - When I press the accelerator I expect the car to move immediately, not dither for some fraction of a second then overcompensate.

With a manual, you learn all sorts of clutch tricks to go slower than the engine can go at, and you can balance the car at the biting point ready to go as soon as there's an opportunity - I've not come across any clutch-based automatic that can do these things so they always felt annoyingly delayed to me. The HSD is the first 'automatic' I've had that had the same sort of responsiveness I could do with a manual (Which, to be fair, is largely down to the electric motors  )