ECVT v DSG

[MikeSh]

54 minutes ago, Cyker said:

I've not come across any clutch-based automatic that can do these things so they always felt annoyingly delayed to me.

Excluding start-stop systems I can't recall any automatics I've had that didn't 'go' from stationary when I hit the loud pedal. At moving speeds the responses could be less enthusiastic at times - MMTs being notably slow - but many needing a kickdown action to encourage them.

But when you live with autos for long enough (40 years) you learn how to get them to do your bidding.

[Cyker]

Even the MMT?? I think we must have very different senses of reaction times if you don't notice a delay when trying to move off briskly with an MMT!  

To be fair other autobox people have also said they don't know what I'm talking about, but I can only assume they're too used to the delay to notice - When I drove such vehicles back to back with my manuals I found the initial delay autoboxes have really noticeable.

To clarify, the delay isn't big - Fractions of a second, although particularly bad ones I've experienced have felt like a second or over, but on a fast roundabout that's a long time!

 

[Jimota]

The “delay” in my hired Kia Sportage was most noticeable in eco mode but turning on sports mode nearly eliminated the problem.  As a seasoned user of Audi/VW/Skoda S-tronic/DSG boxes, the “delay” was minimal so maybe it’s the way these automatics are set up rather than an inherent weakness of the design and manufacturing process.

[anchorman]

The Mazda stop start is the best other than our ecvt in the hybrids.  It pauses the pistons in the poised position and starts in less than half a second and if you turn the music up, I defy anyone to tell it stopped.  I also think that if a car is type approved with stop start, it shouldn’t be possible to disable it which includes most modern diesels.   The amount of fuel burned globally in idling engines is obscene.  

[Cyker]

I must admit the stop-start in my 1.33 Mk2, on the rare occasion that it worked, was very refined too - Like you describe, it also just immediately resumed as if it had never stopped; Virtually no delay, and I could immediately speed off again without having to worry about a stall, whereas I've experienced some other cars where it's like starting the car again  

One thing I never got is why stop-start cars can restart the engine so immediately, but when you start it normally it still has to crank like any normal car...!

[Jimota]

Never really thought about that but you make a very good point.  I’m sure someone on the forum will no doubt have the answer but hopefully it can be explained in layman’s terms.

[Tommy X]

21 minutes ago, Cyker said:

One thing I never got is why stop-start cars can restart the engine so immediately, but when you start it normally it still has to crank like any normal car...!

Don has touched on subject with the Mazda s/s system, I think one of the pistons is stopped just before TDC on the firing stroke, not sure, but I think it may be used by most manufacturers. Stop/start is an annoyance on DSG cars causing a delay when moving off from standstill I always turn S/S off before every trip, the Toyota system is much better. VAG DSG's are tuned for max economy so tend to change up very quickly (at times too quickly) and tend to hold on to a high gear when the car is slowing causing a "lag" if there is a need for quick acceleration, using sport mode eliminates this. On the Mazda 2 I owned the S/S could be permanently disabled by directing the airflow to the screen (demist/defrost) same with Suzuki brill idea     

[Cyker]

Directing air flow to the screen disables the stop-start?? Wat??

[MikeSh]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

One thing I never got is why stop-start cars can restart the engine so immediately, but when you start it normally it still has to crank like any normal car...!

I assumed it's simply that the engine is hot and ready since most SS systems won't operate until it's reached normal operating temperature.

[Tommy X]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

Directing air flow to the screen disables the stop-start?? Wat??

Yes, I left mine on the rapid (boost) screen demist / defrost setting with aircon switched on and the S/S never kicked in, think it was a built in safety feature   i-stop doesnt work when i turn on blower fan. - Mazda (whirlpool.net.au)

[anchorman]

4 hours ago, MikeSh said:

I assumed it's simply that the engine is hot and ready since most SS systems won't operate until it's reached normal operating temperature.

Exactly.  Poising the engine in the exact position requires it be in gear too.  It’s actually after TDC.  I’ll find something that explains it.  

3 hours ago, Tommy X said:

Yes, I left mine on the rapid (boost) screen demist / defrost setting with aircon switched on and the S/S never kicked in, think it was a built in safety feature   i-stop doesnt work when i turn on blower fan. - Mazda (whirlpool.net.au)

There are a number of things that will stop it and using demist is one.  The system assumes you require max temperature so keeps the engine running.  Otherwise it sets the climate back to a low power state but in extreme weather it doesn’t work either.  

[Jimota]

Initially, I thought the stop start system was very good but I much prefer the non stop smoothness of the e-CVT.

[TonyHSD]

19 hours ago, Jimota said:

Initially, I thought the stop start system was very good but I much prefer the non stop smoothness of the e-CVT.

Perhaps the best stop-start out there. 
Taxi and other trade drive these because they are so nice to drive, then comes efficiency and then reliability. Now London police has many Corolla’s, finally officers will be enjoying patrolling in quiet and smooth cars. And they chasing someone still make less noises then if they drive old school tractors. 
 

[Cyker]

It is true what people say - The HSDs are just inexplicably relaxing to drive. Didn't really get what they meant until I got once. I just find it very calming and nice, maybe because of the smoothness or something?