RAV4.5 rubbish sat nav.

[NASY]

I have no idea why Sat Nav is included in any car these days as surely everyone uses Android or Apple. There again I have no idea why anyone listens to radio anymore since Qobuz and Spotify are available but they do for some reason - beats me.

[Strangely Brown]

14 hours ago, NASY said:

I have no idea why Sat Nav is included in any car these days as surely everyone uses Android or Apple. There again I have no idea why anyone listens to radio anymore since Qobuz and Spotify are available but they do for some reason - beats me.

Because, contrary to popular belief, the mobile phone network is anything but ubiquitous. There are many places where a 2G phone signal is not available let alone a decent enough 4G/5G signal to provide a reliable data service. The onboard systems are useable anywhere that the car can see the sky and get a GPS lock. The same is not true for AA/ACP. Driving across a sheet of graph paper is not comforting when you are looking for directions.

[NASY]

Another school day. Thanks.

[Corolly Poly]

14 minutes ago, Strangely Brown said:

Because, contrary to popular belief, the mobile phone network is anything but ubiquitous. There are many places where a 2G phone signal is not available let alone a decent enough 4G/5G signal to provide a reliable data service. The onboard systems are useable anywhere that the car can see the sky and get a GPS lock. The same is not true for AA/ACP. Driving across a sheet of graph paper is not comforting when you are looking for directions.

That's why its a good idea when using AA to download map areas for those apps that allow it such as google maps and TomTom

[Paul john]

5 minutes ago, Corolly Poly said:

That's why its a good idea when using AA to download map areas for those apps that allow it such as google maps and TomTom

Same with tomtom on ACP.

sygic also offers locally downloaded maps. 

[Paul john]

22 minutes ago, Strangely Brown said:

Because, contrary to popular belief, the mobile phone network is anything but ubiquitous. There are many places where a 2G phone signal is not available let alone a decent enough 4G/5G signal to provide a reliable data service. The onboard systems are useable anywhere that the car can see the sky and get a GPS lock. The same is not true for AA/ACP. Driving across a sheet of graph paper is not comforting when you are looking for directions.

3G is being phased out this year. Already gone on EE and Vodafone , O2 by December..

Since 2g (Edge/LTE) is only there as a fallback for 3G services and is inherent on 3g Towers , that will be gone soon too.

[Strangely Brown]

2 hours ago, Corolly Poly said:

That's why its a good idea when using AA to download map areas for those apps that allow it such as google maps and TomTom

Why would I need to download the map areas when I already have the whole country in the on-board system. AA and ACP have their place and they are very useful when you are in a good coverage area with a solid data service but, IME, it is not uncommon to be caught out when trying ad-hoc navigation when out for the day.

[Flatcoat]

On 4/9/2024 at 6:00 PM, porbeagle said:

Just plug in your phone (I connect mine with Android Auto) and use Waze.

Manufacturers have been getting their knickers in a twist for years about Sat Navs. They saw them as another way to make money, charging more for an update than a whole unit would cost.  Eventually they will realise their folly and, as has been said elsewhere, invest in better security. 

 

That isn’t quite the point. The factory system should be such it can be relied upon. I have paid for a feature that is not fit for purpose. 

37 minutes ago, Strangely Brown said:

Why would I need to download the map areas when I already have the whole country in the on-board system. AA and ACP have their place and they are very useful when you are in a good coverage area with a solid data service but, IME, it is not uncommon to be caught out when trying ad-hoc navigation when out for the day.

It is not uncommon with the Toyota on board system to find you are navigating across the landscape as it was 1000 years ago before roads were built. 

[Hadrian1]

I use Google maps with Android Auto.  I've tried Waze but it gave so many

false warnings, that I found it distracting. I expect you can turn those off,

but I couldn't be bothered.

[Cyker]

17 hours ago, NASY said:

I have no idea why Sat Nav is included in any car these days as surely everyone uses Android or Apple. There again I have no idea why anyone listens to radio anymore since Qobuz and Spotify are available but they do for some reason - beats me.

I kinda agree and so did Toyota - The Mk4 Yaris didn't come with satnav in this country, and I appreciated not having to pay for a system that would be outdated soon and be a rip-off to update - It's just dead weight if AA/ACP is going to be used.

Sadly nobody else seemed to agree and they got some flak for it from customers and press for having a satnav button that didn't do anything, so now the system has been put back in the revised models even though nobody actually uses it and everyone uses AA and ACP like they intended with the original!

The one good thing about the new built in system is it can be tied into the car's cruise control, and some members have discovered there is a special mode that can optimise EV and ICE use on the route to increase fuel economy further - Something impossible when using maps with AA/ACP 

[Corolly Poly]

1 hour ago, Strangely Brown said:

Why would I need to download the map areas when I already have the whole country in the on-board system. AA and ACP have their place and they are very useful when you are in a good coverage area with a solid data service but, IME, it is not uncommon to be caught out when trying ad-hoc navigation when out for the day.

If you want to use apps on AA in poor data areas. If you are happy with the onboard then that's fine.

[Strangely Brown]

2 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

It is not uncommon with the Toyota on board system to find you are navigating across the landscape as it was 1000 years ago before roads were built. 

That happens when the zoom level is not tight to show the roads. Zoom out and roads "disappear". Zoom in and they are shown. I have never yet not had a road known to the system unless it was only built since the last map update. Even the new build estate near here is on the maps... unless the zoom level is too far out of course.

[Strangely Brown]

1 hour ago, Corolly Poly said:

If you want to use apps on AA in poor data areas. If you are happy with the onboard then that's fine.

Sorry, I'm not getting the point across. You don't know if you will be in a poor data area until, well, until you're in a poor data area  and you want ad-hoc nav use. Sure, if you know where you want to go and can pre-load all of the maps between the start and end points for your predetermined trip then great... but what if you need to be routed away from those maps you have pre-loaded and you happen to go through a poor data area.
The point is that AA/ACP are great and I use the latter, and OSmaps now and then, but they are not always readily available and so are not my first choice.

[Corolly Poly]

8 minutes ago, Strangely Brown said:

Sorry, I'm not getting the point across. You don't know if you will be in a poor data area until, well, until you're in a poor data area  and you want ad-hoc nav use. Sure, if you know where you want to go and can pre-load all of the maps between the start and end points for your predetermined trip then great... but what if you need to be routed away from those maps you have pre-loaded and you happen to go through a poor data area.
The point is that AA/ACP are great and I use the latter, and OSmaps now and then, but they are not always readily available and so are not my first choice.

I don't seem to be getting my point across either. I have downloaded the whole of the UK, France and Spain (in Google Maps and Tomtom) which is where I am likely to do almost all of my travelling in my car. I don't need the data apart from traffic, etc but that would be updated when I pass through an area with a data signal. I am sure I will use the inbuilt Satnav more as I get used to it but that is also dependent on a data signal for traffic info.

[CPN]

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

I kinda agree and so did Toyota - The Mk4 Yaris didn't come with satnav in this country, and I appreciated not having to pay for a system that would be outdated soon and be a rip-off to update - It's just dead weight if AA/ACP is going to be used.

A fair comment...

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

Sadly nobody else seemed to agree and they got some flak for it from customers and press for having a satnav button that didn't do anything, so now the system has been put back in the revised models even though nobody actually uses it and everyone uses AA and ACP like they intended with the original!

Ironically, I am using the built-in system a lot more these days; especially as I was a "born again" AA advocate... (see below for why...)

2 hours ago, Cyker said:

The one good thing about the new built in system is it can be tied into the car's cruise control, and some members have discovered there is a special mode that can optimise EV and ICE use on the route to increase fuel economy further - Something impossible when using maps with AA/ACP 

There is one other good thing about the built-in system apart from that which you have just mentioned and that is its integration into the HUD and main dashboard display which works well in use.

[Flatcoat]

1 hour ago, Strangely Brown said:

That happens when the zoom level is not tight to show the roads. Zoom out and roads "disappear". Zoom in and they are shown. I have never yet not had a road known to the system unless it was only built since the last map update. Even the new build estate near here is on the maps... unless the zoom level is too far out of course.

It is nothing to do with the zoom level, that is utter b8ll8cks. The road might be there and then disappears never to reappear, or simply doesn’t show at all. Worse still is the routing taking you off a motorway for a detour through a local housing estate to rejoin at the next junction. It is not fit for purpose and I resent having a feature in such an expensive car that is so rubbish. 

[Strangely Brown]

2 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

It is nothing to do with the zoom level, that is utter b8ll8cks. The road might be there and then disappears never to reappear, or simply doesn’t show at all. Worse still is the routing taking you off a motorway for a detour through a local housing estate to rejoin at the next junction. It is not fit for purpose and I resent having a feature in such an expensive car that is so rubbish. 

It's not b8ll8cks: the zoom level affects which roads are shown or not. That is a demonstrable, consistent, fact.
The behaviour that you are describing is something I have never experienced, which is not to say that I disbelieve it happened to you. However, if that is something that happened regularly to a large enough number of people then I would expect to have heard the same behaviour described by others. YMMV. Maybe you have a faulty unit.

Is the nav in the MM17/MM19 perfect? No.  Is it "unfit for purpose", IMO, no. Again, YMMV.

...and at the end of the day, if you resent it that much, have you considered selling it and buying something less expensive that isn't quite so rubbish? Just sayin'.
 

[Strangely Brown]

1 hour ago, Corolly Poly said:

I don't seem to be getting my point across either. I have downloaded the whole of the UK, France and Spain (in Google Maps and Tomtom) which is where I am likely to do almost all of my travelling in my car. I don't need the data apart from traffic, etc but that would be updated when I pass through an area with a data signal. I am sure I will use the inbuilt Satnav more as I get used to it but that is also dependent on a data signal for traffic info.

Fair enough. If you have the space available on your phone for that much data, twice, then problem solved. 👍

[Roy124]

The car display uses Snap to Road.   From time to time it loses the signal and be too far off road until the computer matches the cars turns and resumes the snap. 

Routing options often have shortest, fastest, most economical etc.  If it routes you through a village it .is your setting.

[Terry10]

2 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

It is nothing to do with the zoom level, that is utter b8ll8cks. The road might be there and then disappears never to reappear, or simply doesn’t show at all. Worse still is the routing taking you off a motorway for a detour through a local housing estate to rejoin at the next junction. It is not fit for purpose and I resent having a feature in such an expensive car that is so rubbish. 

And that is exactly what's happened to me more than once.

Terry

[ernieb]

9 hours ago, Paul john said:

3G is being phased out this year. Already gone on EE and Vodafone , O2 by December..

Since 2g (Edge/LTE) is only there as a fallback for 3G services and is inherent on 3g Towers , that will be gone soon too.

2G is still used for a lot of control systems, its ability to ‘go through’ walls and long distances making it particularly suitable. There have been moves to remove this for some time but is still being resisted. (As far as I know)

I use a 2G SIM in a device which remotely monitors the mains power supply. This uses a large internal capcitor rather than a Battery so that when the ‘power’ is lost the SIM will send a text to my phone. In fact I can power a device remotely by texting a code, monitor the temperature etc.  Similar devices using 2G are used by many of the major utility suppliers. The ability to reboot a system is likely to cure 90% of failures at remote sites.

[Flatcoat]

2 hours ago, Roy124 said:

The car display uses Snap to Road.   From time to time it loses the signal and be too far off road until the computer matches the cars turns and resumes the snap. 

Routing options often have shortest, fastest, most economical etc.  If it routes you through a village it .is your setting.

Please explain what setting takes you off a motorway, down winding that’s, through housing estates with 20mph limits to bring you back on at the next junction? Shortest? Fastest? Eco? All this in the middle of a 300 mile journey? Don’t blame the user, that is what the Post office did with Horizon and look at how that has turned out. 

[Paul john]

10 hours ago, ernieb said:

2G is still used for a lot of control systems, its ability to ‘go through’ walls and long distances making it particularly suitable. There have been moves to remove this for some time but is still being resisted. (As far as I know)

I use a 2G SIM in a device which remotely monitors the mains power supply. This uses a large internal capcitor rather than a battery so that when the ‘power’ is lost the SIM will send a text to my phone. In fact I can power a device remotely by texting a code, monitor the temperature etc.  Similar devices using 2G are used by many of the major utility suppliers. The ability to reboot a system is likely to cure 90% of failures at remote sites.

Yes and there will be more failures when phased out completely. 
most car park ticket machines have already been upgraded or decommissioned as they used that outdated system.

the Nissan leaf early gen also no longer have telematics due to the same issue.

if you have control units using this then i would suggest you upgrade to 4g or better sooner than later.

 

 

[nlee]

13 hours ago, Strangely Brown said:

Fair enough. If you have the space available on your phone for that much data, twice, then problem solved. 👍

I'm currently using Sygic for my AA navigation. Map downloads are by country, not individual small areas. Similar if say you decided to go to France, or Italy (even if using a hire car). The UK is 800MB/0.8GB so it's not that much space really. Maps are automatically updated with the latest every month (map data source is TomTom).

Admittedly, most that use offline maps and for Sygic, if you want to use AA or some other "premium" features it's behind a paywall, but the subscription is around £15 per year, which is far less than updates after the free years for the Toyota maps.

[Cyker]

12 hours ago, Paul john said:

Yes and there will be more failures when phased out completely. 
most car park ticket machines have already been upgraded or decommissioned as they used that outdated system.

the Nissan leaf early gen also no longer have telematics due to the same issue.

if you have control units using this then i would suggest you upgrade to 4g or better sooner than later.

 

 

The stupid thing is in industry they are STILL selling various 2G telemetry systems and I bet people who haven't done their research still buy them because they are cheaper than the 4G and especially 5G ones!