Toyota GB statement on CANbus Theft

[ernieb]

5 minutes ago, Cyker said:

Oooh ooh is it a free Trunk Monkey Theft Retrieval System???

 

 

BTW, these protection plates, are they visible? If so that'd be a decent deterrent. If they are only visible after they pull out the wheel arch liner that's less handy...

+1, for a Trunk Monkey, brilliant.

[Rav Rob]

Read all the comments on the Toyota page, not clear from the various statements they made, come April (hopefully) when the new solution for vulnerable vehicles is available, will they (or the dealers) contact the owners of said vehicles?, or like the protection plates, its up to us to chase up the dealer for a fix?

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, Rav Rob said:

will they (or the dealers) contact the owners of said vehicles?

As it isn't a recall, due to not being a safety issue, Toyota won't have access to DVLA records to obtain owner addresses.

[Rav Rob]

3 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

As it isn't a recall, due to not being a safety issue, Toyota won't have access to DVLA records to obtain owner addresses.

True but don't most dealers have records of owners? they certainly do when they are phoning and nagging me for booking services. Could they not check their data and contact owners. It wouldn't catch absolutely everyone but most RAV4s in the time range specified are highly likely to be seen by dealers service dept. regularly.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Would probably be done as a Toyota Service Bulletin, with whatever the extra security is installed at the next service or if customers contact them.

[philip42h]

18 hours ago, philip42h said:

With the emphasis very much on guess - assuming that they are still going to allow keyless entry and start, they need to do something to replace the 'key present' signal with a 'my key present' signal. Which sounds, to me, like a change at both the sending end (where the presence of the key is detected) and at the receiving end (where the doors are unlocked, and the car switched to Ready mode). But we may never know quite how wrong that guess may be ... 🙂

They could, of course, introduce an alternative security bus, send the signal down that and remove it from the CANbus altogether.

Oh dear, I've gone into guess meltdown ... 😁

... but that hasn't stopped me!

In the statement they say: (my editing and emphasis)  

Quote

 

Following significant investments by Toyota GB ... newly developed official Toyota ... security hardware components will very soon be available to fit to those targeted models registered before October 2021.

Following communication from Toyota and Lexus in the coming weeks, owners should contact their local dealer to arrange fitment.

 

A 'security hardware component' could be no more than a steering lock with a Toyota logo ... 😉

But I'm beginning to suspect that it could be a secondary immobiliser along with a TSB to install and configure it correctly for our cars. We understand that such an accessory immobiliser has already been offered as an accessory elsewhere in Europe.

This speculation, while great fun, is rather pointless when we will know the true position in a matter of weeks ... 🙂

[forkingabout]

30 minutes ago, philip42h said:

A 'security hardware component' could be no more than a steering lock with a Toyota logo ... 😉

But I'm beginning to suspect that it could be a secondary immobiliser along with a TSB to install and configure it correctly for our cars. We understand that such an accessory immobiliser has already been offered as an accessory elsewhere in Europe.

This speculation, while great fun, is rather pointless when we will know the true position in a matter of weeks ... 🙂

My educated guess would be a factory in Europe is working overtime to make up a large stock of Toyota / Lexus secondary immobilisers. 

 

[Yugguy1970]

19 hours ago, APS said:

This statement is somewhat concerning: "We cannot divulge the precise nature of the imminent security enhancement; should we do so we risk offering information into the public domain that could be of interest to criminal parties." as it means even the new fix isn't all that secure. I guess they may be constrained by what the CAN bus standard allows. 

Link to the statement with tracking removed: https://mag.toyota.co.uk/toyota-gb-statement-on-vehicle-theft/

I didn't read it like that, I think they just don't want to give the scrotes any kind of head start.

[APS]

1 hour ago, Yugguy1970 said:

I think they just don't want to give the scrotes any kind of head start.

Yeah, that's exactly what they are saying. My point was that knowledge about a strong security system doesn't necessarily help you in defeating it. But I think it's unreasonable to expect Toyota GB to come up with something that is highly sophisticated like a strengthening of the CAN bus protocol. Still, it is good to see that they are "on the case". 

[Parts-King]

14 hours ago, Rav Rob said:

True but don't most dealers have records of owners? they certainly do when they are phoning and nagging me for booking services. Could they not check their data and contact owners. It wouldn't catch absolutely everyone but most RAV4s in the time range specified are highly likely to be seen by dealers service dept. regularly.

They do, but only their own customers. If I live in Manchester and buy a car from London, my Manchester dealer won't have a clue about that. For recalls, DVLA are the only people who can give TGB up to date owners details

[Dm800]

Well more than 3 months down the line and no further along. 

"Thanks for your question.
Please be assured that we are currently working on further security enhancements, but unfortunately do have no update to offer at the moment.
A Vehicle Protection Plate is available for the RAV4, so this is also an option for enhanced vehicle security.
We hope this helps.
Thanks."

No....it dosent help. Very poor Toyota.

[forkingabout]

I did see a recent post from someone that had the plates fitted & a few weeks later there RAV4 disappeared in a couple of minutes.

IIRC that's the 2nd vehicle that's I've heard of stolen with the protection plates fitted.

3rd vehicle ( a Lexus ) plates beaten by the thieves but stopped by a secondary immobiliser.

[FROSTYBALLS]

On 3/14/2024 at 9:45 AM, Flatcoat said:

However, I wonder if this will be extended to the Suzuki badged versions too?

That would be down to Suzuki.

[Dm800]

17 minutes ago, forkingabout said:

I did see a recent post from someone that had the plates fitted & a few weeks later there RAV4 disappeared in a couple of minutes.

IIRC that's the 2nd vehicle that's I've heard of stolen with the protection plates fitted.

3rd vehicle ( a Lexus ) plates beaten by the thieves but stopped by a secondary immobiliser.

Yes I saw that as well. The week after the plates were fitted I think.

Not exactly confidence inspiring.

 

[Rigsby]

30 minutes ago, forkingabout said:

I did see a recent post from someone that had the plates fitted & a few weeks later there RAV4 disappeared in a couple of minutes.

IIRC that's the 2nd vehicle that's I've heard of stolen with the protection plates fitted.

3rd vehicle ( a Lexus ) plates beaten by the thieves but stopped by a secondary immobiliser.

Opens up several questions.

1. Were the plates actually fitted ?

2. If they were fitted, were they installed correctly ?

3. Have the thieves found another way to access the CanBus ?

Very worrying, I’d stopped using my Stoplock since my plates were fitted, will have to start using it again.

[philip42h]

3 hours ago, Rigsby said:

I’d stopped using my Stoplock since my plates were fitted ...

The plates may (or may not) prevent access to the CANbus via the headlights but the scumbags aren't going to know that. If you live (park your car) in a higher crime area, you would do well to include a visible deterrent even if your car isn't vulnerable at all.

The CANbus is probably accessible anywhere that the wiring loom can be 'got at' from outside the car. Accessing the front nearside headlight via the wheel arch is just one 'easy' way - there are 'likely' to be others.

What is needed is a 'design' fix to eliminate the vulnerability altogether - as has already been implemented in the PHEV and newer model years. Toyota originally implied April which we could assume meant May, but we are running out of June now.

(Thankfully, I live in a relatively low crime area so the car is reasonably safe, vulnerable as it is.)

[Dippy]

Got my new anti-theft system for free. 
 

Piece of paper in the windscreen that says “Hi, there’s a tasty Range Rover in the next street”. 

[GoneFishin247]

Blimey, glad I joined this forum after all. Never heard about this. Could be the straw that breaks the RAV4's back. Appears to be the exact model and year (2019) I was looking to purchase?

I intended to use a Faraday cage for the keys as I will with any new vehicle but this hack looks to bypass that as well?

[forkingabout]

11 minutes ago, GoneFishin247 said:

I intended to use a faraday cage for the keys as I will with any new vehicle but this hack looks to bypass that as well?

Yes it does - basically they plug the theft device in to vehicle headlamp wiring to steal the vehicle.

 

[GoneFishin247]

10 minutes ago, forkingabout said:

Yes it does - basically they plug the theft device in to vehicle headlamp wiring to steal the vehicle.

 

Oh dear. Well back to the drawing board it is then. That's a shame as very few vehicles tick as many boxes as RAV4 does in terms of a being a still somewhat practical SUV. CRV is the only other I'm aware of.

[Terry10]

12 minutes ago, GoneFishin247 said:

Oh dear. Well back to the drawing board it is then. That's a shame as very few vehicles tick as many boxes as RAV4 does in terms of a being a still somewhat practical SUV. CRV is the only other I'm aware of.

Hi, what you need to remember is that most of these thefts are in London/ West Midlands. See that you are non Uk so unless you live in some major city then the odds are in your favour.If you genuinely like the car bearing in mind that there is a fix on the way then you need to sit down and put things in perspective.what are the chances of your new buy being stolen where you live. Also bear in mind that apparently the equipment to steal the Rav4 is very expensive so your average out of city !Removed! won't have it.Just my thoughts. Terry

[GoneFishin247]

1 minute ago, Terry10 said:

Hi, what you need to remember is that most of these thefts are in London/ West Midlands. See that you are non Uk so unless you live in some major city then the odds are in your favour.If you genuinely like the car bearing in mind that there is a fix on the way then you need to sit down and put things in perspective.what are the chances of your new buy being stolen where you live. Also bear in mind that apparently the equipment to steal the Rav4 is very expensive so your average out of city !Removed! won't have it.Just my thoughts. Terry

Cheers Terry, much appreciated. A fair and good point which I agree with.

I am in the UK, South, just didn't fancy getting too personal with site registration as it invited me to post without any trimmings and then tried to trap me after the event. But that's a different story.

I'll have to look into how hard it is to remove the light etc. Where I live people do turn up with angle grinders and pinch people's cats so I'd expect light removal wouldn't be beyond a possibility. Equipment cost permitting though like you say.

 

[forkingabout]

22 minutes ago, GoneFishin247 said:

I'll have to look into how hard it is to remove the light etc. Where I live people do turn up with angle grinders and pinch people's cats so I'd expect light removal wouldn't be beyond a possibility. Equipment cost permitting though like you say.

 

Headlight isn't removed, inner arch plastic or front bumper corner is pulled away from the clips to gain access to the CAN / connector plug.

[GoneFishin247]

28 minutes ago, forkingabout said:

Headlight isn't removed, inner arch plastic or front bumper corner is pulled away from the clips to gain access to the CAN / connector plug.

That sounds even worse. What is happening here.

They said, oh you can no longer fold the back seats flat, I said, I will cope.

They said, it sounds like a choir of angels being attacked with acid, I said see above. But it's becoming more than a little annoying.

They said, you cannot go anywhere, even legal places that don't require seatbelts, without the car demanding you put one on. I'll soldier through.

They said, don't go one mile an hour over the speedometer's guess at speeds for even one second. I said, tis but a scratch.

And, then it turns out the damned thing can be stolen on a whim. I'm out.

[CPN]

Ah, that snowflake filter strikes again! 🤣