Net Zero Ambulances

[Roy124]

THE NHS is to introduce electric ambulances, raising concerns that its drive for net zero is being put above patient safety.

Paramedics fear patients will be forced to wait longer because of the hours lost recharging the vehicles, with particular concern about coverage of rural areas, given the limited range.

I don't see recharging time as an issue.  Apparently they spend hours outside A&E waiting to hand patients over 🙄 

However there are places in the countryside between villages where ambulances park up to optimise response times.  I hope tge install charging points at these spots too.

[Bper]

As paramedics mentioned, electric vehicles do take longer to recharge compared to refueling petrol vehicles. This could be an issue in situations where an ambulance needs to respond quickly to multiple emergencies. Especially in rural areas, electric ambulances might have a limited range before needing a recharge. This could impact response times in spubikly populated areas. If electric ambulances spend less time idling outside hospitals, this could free them up to respond to other emergencies.

[Roy124]

Bob, you are quite right of course.  My comment was tongue in cheek.

Mrs Roy had a fall at 4pm.  She was allocated an ambulance as it had been triaged to need assistance just in case.  It was due at 6pm from Birmingham. 

As her condition improved,  I took her to A&E in Peterborough. After triage in the outer area we were sent into another area to wait.  As more people came in and we dropped down the waiting list and discharged ourselves at 11pm.

The chances of a WMAS having sufficient charge to reach Cambridge was iffy, to get back to Birmingham unlikely. 

[Parts-King]

I had a very interesting meeting with Welsh Ambulance service, we supply parts for all the fast response RAV4 Hybrid/Plug in's. Most Ambulances have diesel heaters in the back to keep patients warm. When sitting outside hospitals and under canopies, the diesel fumes are causing emission issues. Most also have charging ports to charge the batteries instead of running on idle for hours on end. The heaters are being changed for electric heaters. Electric Ambulances are a way off yet, but they are working on ways of reducing emissions. The infrastructure costs are huge, but they are installing charge points for standard and electric Ambulances at Ambulance stations and Hospitals over time 

[Roy124]

We had a talk by the new head of the Lincolnshire Health Trust (by now he may be the former.....).  He has an official EV car bur is unable to charge it at the Grantham Hospital as the infrastructure cannot support EV points.

Grantham will not be unique.

[Haliotis]

I’m more concerned with the NHS net zero activity as reported in the media.  It appears that some hospitals are refusing to give drugs where their production is unfriendly to the environment, even if such drugs are the best option for treating a patient, and are on the list of approved drugs. In my opinion this is willful refusal to treat a patient properly. And where does it stand in the hypocratic oath of ‘first do no harm?’

[Roy124]

1 minute ago, Haliotis said:

‘first do no harm?’

That is an active statement.   Failing to administer treatment is not actually not doing harm.

At a local RTA out military doctor was observed as an onlooker.

In our training we were told it was our decision whether to get involved.   If we chose to intervene then we were committed to assist until relieved. 

[Haliotis]

If a patient has entrusted themselves into the care of a hospital, then that hospital’s medical staff are responsible for giving the best care that they are able to carry out.  If any member of the medical staff then intentionally deprives the patient from the administration of an available drug that will improve his/her wellbeing, then that member is guilty by default of causing suffering which could have been avoided.

Medical staff are not allowed to base their treatment of patients on political beliefs.

[Bper]

1 minute ago, Haliotis said:

If a patient has entrusted themselves into the care of a hospital, then that hospital’s medical staff are responsible for giving the best care that they are able to carry out.  If any member of the medical staff then intentionally deprives the patient from the administration of an available drug that will improve his/her wellbeing, then that member is guilty by default of causing suffering which could have been avoided.

Medical staff are not allowed to base their treatment of patients on political beliefs.

Thats true, but the political side say the Government isn't listening to their pay demands so striking not only effects patient care but increases the waiting list times further amd further.I do not understand why any  Government is so scared of reforming the NHS. They say the real number of people waiting for treatment Is more like 10 million.

The waiting list and treatments will only get worse If reform is ignored.

[Benzowner]

I can't see a problem, they'll have plenty of time to recharge the Battery while they are waiting outside the hospitals 😂

[FROSTYBALLS]

At our local hospital, Good Hope (locally known as 'No Hope') often the dedicated parking for emergency vehicles gets full with ambulances, and the 'overflow' is the approach road to the rest of the hospital, which then gets reduced to a single lane for vehicles trying to enter and exit the hospital. 

No chance of installing charge points along there ........

[Bper]

Do you think that seeing as this is a trial they will drop this after they see that no infrastructure is in place or keep it to help with depopulation.

[FROSTYBALLS]

Wonder if hydrogen will be a more viable alternative nearer to 2035, as it seems to be the chosen path for commercial vehicles/HGVs.

[MC1216]

When someone mentions Net Zero i generally just switch off.

Good old UK with our 1% CO2  while most of the 16 countries who produce more are not doing very little if anything to reduce the CO2 they produce.

2016 figures but still similar figures today.

https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-by-country/

Anyway another thread is needed if you believe in climate change/electric cars are the way forward/NHS is fit for purpose or Elvis,Shergar and Lord Lucan where seen at Accrington Stanley's football ground last week.😁

[Cyker]

3 hours ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Wonder if hydrogen will be a more viable alternative nearer to 2035, as it seems to be the chosen path for commercial vehicles/HGVs.

I think it's more they have no alternative - It is just physically impossible for batteries to replace diesel for the sort of long haul routes it's currently used for; To get even into the same order of magnitude, the Battery would weigh so much there wouldn't be any mass left for cargo! That leaves hydrogen, as there is no other 'zero emission' energy source (And that's not even technically true as hydrogen for fuel cells or combustion still produces a huge amount of greenhouse gas - Not CO2, but water! Yes, water vapour is considered a greenhouse gas!  )

The irony is the extraction of hydrogen in bulk by industrial methods is far more polluting and also uses fossil fuels, and it's much more expensive than fossil fuels - It's literally worse in every way than diesel aside from local emissions.

Proponents say you can use renewable energy to reduce the pollution side, but the yield is much worse and the energy required is enormous; I think it was something like the energy required to produce 1 miles worth hydrogen could power a BEV for 5 miles!

I think there will either be a big U-Turn or we'll see a rapid collapse of road haulage logistics...

[Bper]

On 3/15/2024 at 6:05 PM, MC1216 said:

When someone mentions Net Zero i generally just switch off.

Good old UK with our 1% CO2  while most of the 16 countries who produce more are not doing very little if anything to reduce the CO2 they produce.

2016 figures but still similar figures today.

https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-by-country/

Anyway another thread is needed if you believe in climate change/electric cars are the way forward/NHS is fit for purpose or Elvis,Shergar and Lord Lucan where seen at Accrington Stanley's football ground last week.😁

Mark, that's weird, I saw Elvis recently when he was staying at the Heartbreak Hotel, I asked how he was doing and he said he was all shook up and I asked him why. He said he found this guy called Lucan who was hiding in a barn when he was out looking for his horse called Shergar. He went on that Lucan was talking to two boys who kept saying.

 

Boy 1: "Milk! Urghh!"

Boy 2: "It's what Ian Rush drinks."

Boy 1: "Ian Rush?"

Boy 2: "Yeah. And he said if I didn't drink lots of milk, when I grow up, I'll only be good enough to play for Accrington Stanley."

Boy 1: "Accrington Stanley, who are they?"

Boy 2: "Exactly."

 

So not understanding a word they said, Elvis left the building.😂