PCN Money Making Scam

[Roy124]

On the day the papers report private parking companies are netting £35,000 per day, I received a PCN.

Our Vet shares a car park with a restaurant.   It is a huge car park and a charge is unnecessary to deter fly-parking.  I had probably mistyped the registration into the check machine. 

After the indignant shock I rang the Vets, gave them the PCN reference.   Five minutes later EuroParks cancelled the PCN.

My SiL was caught by the 'no return within 4 hours' when unknown to her her husband had been in the car park earlier.   She paid up.  She should have complained to the retailer.

Problem is the shops don't own the car parks. 

[Haliotis]

These opportunist firms have no back-up in law, so just ignore their threats of legal action.  They will go away when they get no response.

[Roy124]

The one that really bugs me is our local hospital.   At least I got the car park resurfaced.  The road for the ambulance caused excessive rocking.

The real bug, the charge more for preregistration and paying by direct debit.  Paying by cash involves someone physically collecting the cash, totting it up,  and transporting it to a collection point.    Direct debit and to computer does the work for free.

The company,  based in California, never responds.   You also have to remember to cancel when you sell your car.

[Bper]

Private parking companies in the UK can be a source of major frustration for drivers. For years we have complained about their underhanded practices. Regardless of our frustration they are not going away. This is an article that highlights the problem.

The Good:

Clear Rules, Fair Enforcement: In theory, private parking companies provide clear rules for using private car parks and enforce them fairly. This can deter misuse and ensure everyone has a space when they need it.

Regulation: There's some level of regulation with approved operator schemes and codes of practice aiming for fairness.

Appeals Process: The ability to challenge a fine you believe is unfair offers some recourse.

The Bad:

Unfair Fines: Parking charges often feel excessive, especially for minor mistakes like overstaying by a few minutes. The cost can feel punitive rather than a deterrent.

Confusing Signage: Signage can be unclear, poorly placed, or contain lengthy legalese that's difficult to understand at a glance. This makes it easy to make unintentional errors.

Predatory Practices: Some companies might use unclear signage or place hidden parking restrictions to catch drivers out. Aggressive debt collection tactics can add further stress.

Limited Appeal Process: While an appeals process exists, it can be time-consuming and daunting for many drivers. The burden of proof seems to fall on the motorist to contest the fine.

The Frustration:

Feeling Trapped: Once you've parked and made a mistake, you're stuck with the potential for a hefty fine. There's little room for genuine errors.

Lack of Transparency: The way fines are calculated and the appeals process can be unclear. It's not always easy to understand your rights or how to challenge a fine effectively.

Power Imbalance: Motorists often feel like they're at the mercy of the parking company. The system can seem weighted in favour of the company, making it difficult to fight a fine.

What Motorists Want:

Clear and prominent signage: Easy-to-understand signs with clear terms and charges displayed upfront.

Proportionate fines: Fines that reflect the severity of the offence, rather than just a revenue stream for the company.

A fair and transparent appeals process: A clear and accessible system for challenging fines, with the burden of proof not solely on the motorist.

Overall, while the motorist doesn't have an option other than to accept that parking companies serve a purpose, motorists feel like the system is stacked against them.  A fairer system with clearer communication, more reasonable fines, and a simpler appeals process would go a long way in improving the experience for drivers.

[Rhymes with Paris]

Unfortunately there is much misinformation about regarding PPCs , private parking companies.

First of all these are not fines, private companies, parking or otherwise cannot issue fines, that is for courts, councils and other authorities.

These are PCNs parking charge notices, legally known as speculative invoices.

It is a waste of time appealing to PPCs with mitigating circumstances,or any other reason, their whole business model is profit, nothing to do with fair honest business.

Appeals can be lodged with POPLA, parking on private land appeals,if the company is a member, funded by the PPC members themselves,so good luck with that.

Also with respect to above posters, ignoring a PCN is not a good idea now, since the 2012 legislation, the PPCs were given access to the DVLA database, for a fee of £3.50 they can obtain the name and address of the registered keeper,to pursue the PCN, this I understand was a concession by government in exchange for outlawing clamping on private land.

Some of them are extremely litigious, and will pursue to county court, mostly the bulk processing centre at Northampton, rubber stamping.

It's worth bearing in mind that many of these PPCs morphed from the wild west clamping companies , and that many are run by people with criminal convictions for fraud and violence.

I must add the rider however, that my information may now be out of date, things change all the time.

As I advised on another thread, the best, correct, and up to date information is on the pepipoo website.

Of course if you can head it off at the pass like Roy did (well done Roy), then that is easiest and quickest.

But having run through the mill on the wrong end of these leeches, believe me, follow the advice on pepipoo.

 

[Cyker]

The ones to go after are the shops the parking company is working for - They are a much easier route for getting incorrectly or unfairly issued parking charges revoked, although one restaurant wouldn't help me, so I no longer go there.

This is partly why I'd rather drive 30 mins out of London to a shop or restaurant than 30 mins in. Also you can go much further in 30mins outside London than in!  

[Bper]

Our Aldi s has a private contractor that handles its customers parking and you have to enter your registration number into in-store PCs. A few customers have forgotten to do this and have ended up with a nightmare trying to get the fine overturned. We always make sure regardless of entering our reg number to keep our receipts just in case their system messes up.

[Richard Davies]

I once forgot to enter my registration at my local Aldi & got a letter, but I replied & attached a scan of the receipt from Aldi so show I had shopped there & never heard anything more!

[FROSTYBALLS]

Our local Aldi's and Lidl's just have camera controlled time limits for parking - think 2 hours. No requirement to enter reg.no's.

[Bper]

8 minutes ago, Richard Davies said:

I once forgot to enter my registration at my local Aldi & got a letter, but I replied & attached a scan of the receipt from Aldi so show I had shopped there & never heard anything more!

Hi Richard, I don't no all the circumstances why these people struggled to get the fine overturned but i believe one of them had paid cash and didn't keep the receipt.They couldn't prove they had shopped in the store and just used the car park to use other shops.

[FROSTYBALLS]

1 hour ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

It is a waste of time appealing to PPCs with mitigating circumstances,or any other reason, their whole business model is profit, nothing to do with fair honest business.

I've appealed on two occasions:

The first where I parked in the morning and returned several hours later, outside of the time limit for returning. The second when I unwittingly parked in a disabled space as the painted wheelchair symbol on the parking space was illegible due to wear.

The first appeal was supported by store receipts showing I was elsewhere between the two parking periods. The second supported by photos of the illegible signage. Both appeals succeeded.

[Bper]

We have three Supermarkets all within a few minutes walking distance of each other and its surprising the amount of people who park in one Supermarket car park but actually shop In the others regardless of the amount of shopping they have. We often see them either loaded down with bags of shopping struggling walking back to their cars.

[Roy124]

Sleaford Aldi had the enter your registration number many many years ago.  It lasted only a month or so.  Either people forgot or queues formed at the screen.

[Roy124]

I was lucky at Waitrose Peterborough.   Their store car park is handily located for the train station.   In fairness I, and many others,  will pick up a sarni.

Then, one day genuinely shopping, I waited in the car while the Mrs went shopping.  I got out to stretch my legs and spotted a parking meter.  That was new.

Worthwhile always paying by card or keeping a receipt.

[Rhymes with Paris]

Very happy that things have changed for the better then, and that direct appeals to the PPCs have have been successful.

 

[Bper]

7 minutes ago, Rhymes with Paris said:

Very happy that things have changed for the better then, and that direct appeals to the PPCs have have been successful.

 

Paul, you are right if direct appeals are successful, But a surprisingly number of people do not bother to pursue the fine they just pay. Money In the bank for these private companies unfortunately.

 

 

 

 

[Rhymes with Paris]

On 3/15/2024 at 1:07 PM, Roy124 said:

Problem is the shops don't own the car parks. 

In a lot of cases the PPCs that operate the car parks, even when the landowner is a retailer or landlord of a shopping centre or other business.

Have not bothered to put the paperwork in place to give them the legal right to operate the car park on behalf of the landowner in the first place.

[Bper]

Well you could ask see a copy if they have a written agreement, if they refuse ask for a redacted copy which would blank out any sensitive information . Probably wouldn't happen but you can try.

Also just realised in my earlier post I said fine. They do not issue fines they issue a charge notice for breach of contract They are essentially claiming you owe them money for the inconvenience caused by your parking violation.

[Roy124]

1 hour ago, Bper said:

They are essentially claiming you owe them money for the inconvenience caused by your parking violation.

I wonder if you could argue that an empty car was not affecting the trading position of the companies whose car park they were managing was not affected. 

The particular car where I got the PCN serves a restaurant and a vets.  There are no other reasons to park there.  It is sufficiently large that every single diner could drive there and there would still be plenty of room.

Who engaged Europarks?  Was it the restaurant chain,  one size fits all, or Europarks touting for trade?

[Big_D]

My money is on Europarks touting for trade. They are a business after all, and after Profit. The restaurant gains nothing by engaging the services of Europarks

[Bper]

Roy,you can argue that an empty car parked in a private car park managed by a PPC  might not directly affect the trading position of the companies the car park serves, but there are differences to consider.

The perception of availability,while a single empty car may not be a huge deal, several empty cars could create the impression of a less busy establishment, potentially deterring potential customers.

Longterm occupancy, an empty car taking up a spot all day could prevent a legitimate customer from parking and spending money. This could have a cumulative effect, especially in busy periods.

Contractual obligations, the PPC might have a contractual agreement with the landowner retailer, etc.specifying minimum parking space usage. An excessive number of empty spaces could be a breach of that agreement.

Safety and security, empty cars can obstruct visibility and make maneuvering in the car park more challenging, potentially leading to accidents.  Additionally, empty cars might be seen as more vulnerable to vandalism or theft, impacting the overall security perception.

However, you could strengthen the argument by focusing on the specific empty car.

Short term parking,If the empty car has only been parked for a short time (e.g., someone running a quick errand), the impact on trading is minimal.

Designated parking,If the car is parked in a designated spot (e.g., disabled parking), it's clearly not affecting a space meant for regular customers.

Ultimately, the impact of an empty car depends on the specific situation. While it might not directly affect trading in every case, there are potential consequences to consider.😊

 

[Roy124]

Bob, take your point, except during the day there were more people at the Vets.

This car park is massive in relation to the Miller and Carter.  More empty cars might suggest the restaurant is more popular.  Our last visit there was our last as service and food were both indifferent. 

[Bper]

7 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Bob, take your point, except during the day there were more people at the Vets.

This car park is massive in relation to the Miller and Carter.  More empty cars might suggest the restaurant is more popular.  Our last visit there was our last as service and food were both indifferent. 

Situation specific I suppose.🤨

[Roy124]

36 minutes ago, Bper said:

Situation specific I suppose.🤨

Quite, with Miller and Carter doing a one size fits all.

Having nothing to do during the interval, I counted up the slots and found just 100 slots.