Downsides

[Negris]

Hi

I am considering buying a 2018 Rav4 2.5 VVT-i Hybrid Icon Tech TSS 5dr CVT 2WD that has less than 8,000 miles on the clock from a national dealer. It has been with the dealer since October. Would love to update my current Rav4 but what issues could I be facing here with such a low mileage in five years and being off road effectively for 6 months? Nervous.

[Rambler56]

Was the dealer actively advertising the car since October?  Seems a long time to be off the road, or was it used as a dealership run around or courtesy car?  Low mileage generally means one of two things:  It's had normal use but sat for very long periods without being used, or, it's had many very short cold engine journeys.  As it's a 2018 vehicle have you checked the MOT status and mileages from first MOT, that may give you some clue as to how it may have been used based on the stated mileages.  

[Flatcoat]

I suspect for similar money you will get a higher mileage early mk5 RAV. Personally I would go for the latter. 

[Negris]

22 minutes ago, Rambler56 said:

Was the dealer actively advertising the car since October?  Seems a long time to be off the road, or was it used as a dealership run around or courtesy car?  Low mileage generally means one of two things:  It's had normal use but sat for very long periods without being used, or, it's had many very short cold engine journeys.  As it's a 2018 vehicle have you checked the MOT status and mileages from first MOT, that may give you some clue as to how it may have been used based on the stated mileages.  

Current Mot runs out in August. 

Last MOT Mileage6,157 miles

Avg. Annual Mileage1,200 miles

Mileage Last Year590 miles

[Negris]

14 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

I suspect for similar money you will get a higher mileage early mk5 RAV. Personally I would go for the latter. 

It's sitting currently at just under £20k. Not sure how that fits in with your suggestion. Doable?

 

[philip42h]

51 minutes ago, Negris said:

It's sitting currently at just under £20k. Not sure how that fits in with your suggestion. Doable?

A quick search on Autotrader finds the car you mention and a couple of 4.5s of similar spec at the same price but 40k miles. So, yes, it's doable ...

£20k seems quite a lot to pay for a 5 or 6 year old car. But I can't necessarily see a problem with the low mileage if it has been owned by, say, "an older person" who has now given up driving. It's a hybrid so many of the normal concerns of a car that is less used simply don't apply. It will be important to verify that it has had all its services to schedule ...

 

[Negris]

37 minutes ago, philip42h said:

A quick search on Autotrader finds the car you mention and a couple of 4.5s of similar spec at the same price but 40k miles. So, yes, it's doable ...

Thank you. I will have a look around with your suggestion.

[Flatcoat]

2 hours ago, Negris said:

It's sitting currently at just under £20k. Not sure how that fits in with your suggestion. Doable?

 

Yes which is why I suggested it. My mantra is always buy the newest my money can afford. Old will always be old tech and a more difficult sell down the line. 

[Kos_ta]

2 hours ago, Negris said:

It's sitting currently at just under £20k. Not sure how that fits in with your suggestion. Doable?

 

I was driving past one of dealerships (not Toyota, Vauxhall if I remember correctly) and saw mk5 RAV4 Excel there for 21.6k checked online for mileage later and it was 55k. I'd rather go for mk5 as it's a next generation hybrid system which offer much better fuel economy AFAIK. And alltogether mk5 is much more superior in every aspect. 

[Rav4ster]

Friend of mine had RAV4 MK4 Hybrid and these are negatives why I did not buy one:

• No digital speedo: this was a dealbreaker for me, as we drive to Europe often.
• Does not handle as good as current RAV4, older chassis.
• You get about 10 mpg less with MK4 (older hybrid system). Over 40k miles in 2wd RAV4 MK5 my calculated MPG is 48.7 Friend of mine got under 39 over 30k

[Bper]

HI Ally, while low mileage is great, with a car that's been off the road for a while in the UK, I'd recommend checking the Battery health, recent fluid changes, and tyre condition. A mechanic inspection, price negotiation, and warranty check would also be wise. Take note of other comments already made and do your own research on 2018 Rav 4 owners reviews can't hurt either.

[GBgraham]

15 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

Yes which is why I suggested it. My mantra is always buy the newest my money can afford. Old will always be old tech and a more difficult sell down the line. 

Good advice, follow this rule and you shouldn't go far wrong.

[TonyHSD]

Low mileage hybrid cars and ultra high mileage can hide negative surprises especially if they had not been maintained properly. The biggest issue here are the batteries, both the small 12v and the larger 200v traction Battery. Generally speaking any device or vehicle that is powered by Battery requires to be used often or there is high risk of Battery degradation on chemistry level and only option here is to replace with new . 

[Flatcoat]

If it is a Toyota approved used it is probably a safe buy at a higher mileage. However I agree with traction Battery degradation. I bought an approved used Volvo PHEV from a franchised dealer at the end of Lockdown 1. It had never ending electrical glitches and EV range was chronic. 

[GBgraham]

16 hours ago, Flatcoat said:

If it is a Toyota approved used it is probably a safe buy at a higher mileage. However I agree with traction battery degradation. I bought an approved used Volvo PHEV from a franchised dealer at the end of Lockdown 1. It had never ending electrical glitches and EV range was chronic. 

The joys of buying a Chinese Ford😉

But seriously go to an approved dealer, don't take the first deal and be prepared to walk away and take the best warranty that's on offer

[Flatcoat]

48 minutes ago, GBgraham said:

The joys of buying a Chinese Ford😉

But seriously go to an approved dealer, don't take the first deal and be prepared to walk away and take the best warranty that's on offer

It was from pre Geely days. A V60 D6 PHEV. Very solid car with great seats, very fast and superb at 100+ mph on the autobahns. However reliability and simply being too small (almost a coupe estate if that makes sense) put paid to it. 

[Hybrid21]

Hi Ally, a lot of good comments and advice. It could be a lovely example with the low mileage and an opportunity, as long as you can strike a good deal. As above my main concerns would be :

Why is the mileage so low ? Is it a Toyota franchised dealer, certainly not Arnold Clark or suchlike ?  Does it come with a good warranty covering the Hybrid batteries, etc ? One owner ?

[GBgraham]

1 hour ago, Flatcoat said:

It was from pre Geely days. A V60 D6 PHEV. Very solid car with great seats, very fast and superb at 100+ mph on the autobahns. However reliability and simply being too small (almost a coupe estate if that makes sense) put paid to it. 

Sorry I may have to take you to task, you didn't give the year of your V60 but Geely bought Volvo from Ford in 2010 and the V60 didn't come out till the same year. I had a Volvo and it had FoMoCo stamped on all sorts of parts in all sorts of places.

In my opinion a PHEV with a diesel engine is the perfect combination

 

[Flatcoat]

25 minutes ago, GBgraham said:

Sorry I may have to take you to task, you didn't give the year of your V60 but Geely bought Volvo from Ford in 2010 and the V60 didn't come out till the same year. I had a Volvo and it had FoMoCo stamped on all sorts of parts in all sorts of places.

In my opinion a PHEV with a diesel engine is the perfect combination

 

Yes, correct. I had forgotten it was direct from Ford to Geely. Having said that the V60 was a legacy vehicle from Ford so from a technical aspect, had very little to do with Geely. I used to agree with you on diesel PHEV’s however my RAV PHEV is more economical whether towing or solo……. 

[Cyker]

Diesel PHEV sounds good in theory, but it turns out diesel engines are terrible for the sort of low-duty stop-start use-cycles that hybrids use. The french tried it and it was pulled for being too unreliable, which says a lot if even they thought it was too unreliable  

Diesels are actually horribly inefficient until they get to operating temperature (I know this from experience  ), and given the petrol engine in my Mk4 struggles to stay at operating temperature sometimes, a diesel engine wouldn't have a hope!

Plus with all the emissions control junk bolted onto them, the reliability would be awful - The DPF would block up in months since the engine will have such trouble getting hot enough regularly to purge it.

Maybe if it was a really small diesel engine, or if this fabled ducted injection diesel every comes to market, as eliminating the soot would help a lot, but with the sun setting on IC engines I don't think anyone is willing to put in the R&D investment, as short-sighted as that is...

 

[GBgraham]

13 hours ago, Cyker said:

Diesel PHEV sounds good in theory, but it turns out diesel engines are terrible for the sort of low-duty stop-start use-cycles that hybrids use. The french tried it and it was pulled for being too unreliable, which says a lot if even they thought it was too unreliable  

Diesels are actually horribly inefficient until they get to operating temperature (I know this from experience  ), and given the petrol engine in my Mk4 struggles to stay at operating temperature sometimes, a diesel engine wouldn't have a hope!

Plus with all the emissions control junk bolted onto them, the reliability would be awful - The DPF would block up in months since the engine will have such trouble getting hot enough regularly to purge it.

Maybe if it was a really small diesel engine, or if this fabled ducted injection diesel every comes to market, as eliminating the soot would help a lot, but with the sun setting on IC engines I don't think anyone is willing to put in the R&D investment, as short-sighted as that is...

 

I do fully understand your negatives of the diesel engine which I do mostly agree with but especially if one is doing motorway mileages I do believe the diesel has overall benefits especially here as diesel is at least 15% cheaper.

An interesting thought is to question if folk buy such as RAV4 PHEV owners do long trips or just to potter on the restrictive range of the Battery?

[ernieb]

31 minutes ago, GBgraham said:

An interesting thought is to question if folk buy such as RAV4 PHEV owners do long trips or just to potter on the restrictive range of the battery?

I do a lot of local miles generally within the capacity of the traction Battery in the PHEV. However, every few weeks i do a trip up the motorway of about 115 miles on way. I use the full EV range then let it switch into HEV mode. I recorded just over 40 miles in EV mode today doing that trip, around 65mph (real), wipers/lights/heater and my heated seat as I’ve pulled my back. Very happy with all of that.

[Cyker]

2 hours ago, GBgraham said:

I do fully understand your negatives of the diesel engine which I do mostly agree with but especially if one is doing motorway mileages I do believe the diesel has overall benefits especially here as diesel is at least 15% cheaper.

An interesting thought is to question if folk buy such as RAV4 PHEV owners do long trips or just to potter on the restrictive range of the battery?

That's why I think the demonization of diesels is a real shame - For mostly motorway runs, diesel is still the best fuel; The engines are much more efficient than almost all petrol engines (Although the M-series DynamicForce engines are very close!) and can run at lower RPM so you also get less wear.

It's why practically all trucks are still exclusively diesel - There's just nothing else out there that can do that sort of long distance constant running with a load that diesel is so good at.

For those distance run scenarios, there's almost no point in having the hybrid system as it's just extra weight and expense for minimal gain, so it still makes more sense for having a straight turbo-diesel.

There are niche scenarios where you'd e.g. want to cross through a town at zero emissions to e.g. goto various clients, then traipse another 100+ miles to the next city to the next set of clients, where having a PHEV diesel would work well, but I don't think there'd be enough sales of such a thing, and I suspect many people would use them incorrectly and cause the diesel engine to become very unreliable. Also, because the Toyota petrol hybrids are so close to them now too, the gains are too minimal for anyone to risk putting R&D into making that work reliably...

 

[Eddiefh]

16 hours ago, Cyker said:

Diesel PHEV sounds good in theory, but it turns out diesel engines are terrible for the sort of low-duty stop-start use-cycles that hybrids use. The french tried it and it was pulled for being too unreliable, which says a lot if even they thought it was too unreliable  

Diesels are actually horribly inefficient until they get to operating temperature (I know this from experience  ), and given the petrol engine in my Mk4 struggles to stay at operating temperature sometimes, a diesel engine wouldn't have a hope!

Plus with all the emissions control junk bolted onto them, the reliability would be awful - The DPF would block up in months since the engine will have such trouble getting hot enough regularly to purge it.

Maybe if it was a really small diesel engine, or if this fabled ducted injection diesel every comes to market, as eliminating the soot would help a lot, but with the sun setting on IC engines I don't think anyone is willing to put in the R&D investment, as short-sighted as that is...

 

Must have been a shocker for French to not approve it 

[Flatcoat]

We have a PHEV for a host of reasons. Most local journeys are in EV mode. However we also drive long distances (I am talking hundreds of miles at a time) for leisure, often towing, so the ICE comes into its own.