Problem with switsching from HV mode to EV mode in 2020 PHEV

[HSDish]

The latest two days I had problem with switsching from HV to EV mode in our RAV 4 2020 PHEV.

Internally I swisched from EV mode to HV mode while driving in highway speed and then tried to switsch to EV mode when i got to town/slower speed, but the EV icon just lighten up but not the "green car" icon and the traction Battery didnt kick in at once (as it use to)

I had to drive about 15km before the EV mode worked properly.

The outside temp was 16 C yesterday and 8 C to day, so it wont be that the car had to drive in ICE mode to warm the car. 

I use to switsch betwen EV / HV / EV  and it has never been a problem earlier.

What could be wrong ?

[NASY]

I have found the EV mode in my car seems to need a dose of rest from activities sometimes which I have always put down to it monitoring conditions which include many considerations including last use of combustion engine plus air temperature and maybe others. So I am satisfied it knows what it's doing and does what it does for good reason - certainly taken over longer periods of observation it does not appear as entirely random.

[HSDish]

6 minutes ago, NASY said:

Jag har upptäckt att EV-läget i min bil verkar behöva en dos vila från aktiviteter ibland som jag alltid har lagt ner på att övervaka förhållanden som inkluderar många överväganden inklusive senaste användningen av förbränningsmotor plus lufttemperatur och kanske andra. Så jag är nöjd med att den vet vad den gör och gör vad den gör av goda skäl - givetvis efter längre observationsperioder framstår den inte som helt slumpmässig.

Ive had the car for more than two years now and Ive never noticed this issue before, though

[NASY]

Interesting and curious.

[ernieb]

I've noticed recently that the car will switch into HEV mode and maybe take 10 miles to switch back (motorway 60 + mph). This has happened twice recently when I've had traction Battery capacity to stay in EV mode.

I realise that sometimes the car will want to run in HEV mode etc. and may switch if it feels the car needs additional braking or it's being accelerated hard but none of these applies. I'd recently forced an HEV mode run after new fuel added and the trips I've done many times and run until the traction Battery is exhausted in EV mode.

Maybe things will change when the weather warms??

[NASY]

Will be interesting to see how things are in the warmer weather - I'm confident all things electric prefer 20c plus.

[HSDish]

Im used to that the car starts,and run the ICE for some km, when the EV mode has less than 10 km left , according to "the guessometer" and aspecially when the outer temp are 5C or below but... this time there was 52 km EV mode left and 16 C outside temp the day before yesterday and the car did not enter EV mode even when i pressed HV/EV button, which it use to. It runned ICE for about 12km before the traction Battery kicked in.

Yesterday it was 8 C temp and " the guessometer" said 29 km left for EV mode but I drove 15 km after switsching from HV to EV mode and the traction Battery did not kick in so I had to stop and shut down the car and then, when I restarted the car the EV mode started immediately.

Strange, I think

[Mike2222]

15km seems a bit long for the usual engine warm up/circulate the fluids cycles that occasion happen. I presume you checked the simple things like making sure the front windscreen demister was off (as this usually forces the engine to stay active)? 

 

Only other thing that crosses my mind is whether the current Rav has a petrol particulate filter? Sounds a bit like the dpf cleaning cycles you can get on diesels. Would make sense for the petrol version to have a similar cleaning cycle, but presumably would not need to happen anywhere near as frequently, so happening on a 4yr old car is not out of the realm of possibility? Especially if you've had and recent cold start ICE/HEV runs? 

[philip42h]

18 minutes ago, Mike2222 said:

Only other thing that crosses my mind is whether the current Rav has a petrol particulate filter?

We do, indeed, have a GPF - in order to meet Euro 6 emissions regulations. See your Owner's Manual for confirmation. (It does state "if equipped" but I rather suspect that here in Europe we are so equipped.)

It does also say: "While the GPF system is operating to regenerate the exhaust gas filter, the hybrid Battery (traction battery) may not be recharged." So, Mikes 'crossed mind' feels reasonably accurate.

[Cyker]

I still don't understand why they have GPFs... With the exception of direct injection, petrols have a much more homogeneous mix of fuel and air than diesels so the amount of particulates should be negligible, probably even less than what tyres and brakes produce!

But what it will do is add another restriction to the exhaust which will increase fuel consumption and other emissions...!

[Mike2222]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

I still don't understand why they have GPFs... With the exception of direct injection, petrols have a much more homogeneous mix of fuel and air than diesels so the amount of particulates should be negligible, probably even less than what tyres and brakes produce!

But what it will do is add another restriction to the exhaust which will increase fuel consumption and other emissions...!

I dont especially mind if the particulate filters make a provable difference to real world tailpipe emissions, especially considering cold starts inevitably in built up urban areas, but one thing that I always found incandescently infuriating about the technology on my previous (diesel) car, was why there is no indicator to highlight to the driver when this regeneration cycle was happening. As I understand it, it involves the car intentionally introducing fuel into the dpf to burn at a high temperature and burn the soot into fine ash (or vice-versa) which was less "clogging" (highly technical lingo, obv 😂), and the dpf would eventually need replacing when the ash burden was such that it clogged the flow anyway. However, if part way thru this cycle the engine was stopped, not only would the regeneration be incomplete and need repeating, the residual unburned fuel would then drain into the oil sump, eventually leading to oil dilution and potential damage from poor lubrication (and in extreme cases, theoretically the oil could ignite and cause an engine fire/total f**k-up-ery). 

 

The only explanation I have come across for why no indicator (which would allow the owner to option of waiting before switching off to allow the cycle to compete), is that manufacturers didn't want to highlight the inconvenience of this to the purchasing public in diesel vehicles. Now that we all must have GPFs as well, surely there's no PR issue anymore, but they still don't have them. 

[Cyker]

Yeah; I think the DPF was one of the biggest causes of the downfall of diesel - I still remember when diesel was considered much more reliable than petrol, but now the general opinion is completely the opposite.

[HSDish]

We allmost allways preheat the car with MyT app (20 min cycle, several cycles if its below 0 C) if the outer temperature are below 10 C but that maybe only affects the cabin?

Our car is four years old and/but we has driven it quite long distance.

94 145 km (58 498.9909 miles I think)

61% in EV mode

[HSDish]

Drove the same rut as some days ago, yeterday and the car behaved the same way.

16 C outside temp, drove 7 km ov EV switsched to HV mode on highway and tied to shift to EV mode after about 20 km HV driving but... it tok about 20 km before the EV kicked in.

Talked to my local Toyota garage tec. today but he didnt know why it behaves like that.

Our car newly has the big 9000 km service and everything was good and all filters and things where changed.

but...

He said that his all new RAV 4 PHEV sometimes behaves the same way.

He hasnt thought so much about it but (again) he will check this furter out

[kucyk]

40 minutes ago, HSDish said:

Drove the same rut as some days ago, yeterday and the car behaved the same way.

16 C outside temp, drove 7 km ov EV switsched to HV mode on highway and tied to shift to EV mode after about 20 km HV driving but... it tok about 20 km before the EV kicked in.

Talked to my local Toyota garage tec. today but he didnt know why it behaves like that.

Our car newly has the big 9000 km service and everything was good and all filters and things where changed.

but...

He said that his all new RAV 4 PHEV sometimes behaves the same way.

He hasnt thought so much about it but (again) he will check this furter out

Would you consider getting ODB2 plug, so you can monitor some live data? It would be interesting to see the oil and coolant temperature, 12V Battery voltage also.

[HSDish]

8 hours ago, kucyk said:

Would you consider getting ODB2 plug, so you can monitor some live data? It would be interesting to see the oil and coolant temperature, 12V battery voltage also.

Thank You for tips and input.

Is there any recomendable ODB2 plug ? (Im living in Sweden)

[kucyk]

I got this one and it works really well, I left it plugged in for a couple of days and it didn't drain the Battery. It's BLE+ so it connects automatically to iPhone without opening bluetooth settings / pairing etc. Very convenient. 
https://amzn.eu/d/iXhlBIi

This one is probably one of the best if not the best, but it's pricey.
https://amzn.eu/d/erieoYi

[Nick72]

On 3/29/2024 at 7:00 AM, ernieb said:

I've noticed recently that the car will switch into HEV mode and maybe take 10 miles to switch back (motorway 60 + mph). This has happened twice recently when I've had traction battery capacity to stay in EV mode.

I realise that sometimes the car will want to run in HEV mode etc. and may switch if it feels the car needs additional braking or it's being accelerated hard but none of these applies. I'd recently forced an HEV mode run after new fuel added and the trips I've done many times and run until the traction battery is exhausted in EV mode.

Maybe things will change when the weather warms??

Same. We don't know the algorithm in terms of what sets it off. Time and other variables like outside air temperature, engine and fluid temperatures, etc. but yes, seemingly randomly on occasion it switches and doesn't switch back for about 10 minutes. I think it has to go through its cycle.

I don't pay any attention to it anymore and just assume the Toyota engineers knew what they were doing.

 

[HSDish]

1 hour ago, Nick72 said:

Same. We don't know the algorithm in terms of what sets it off. Time and other variables like outside air temperature, engine and fluid temperatures, etc. but yes, seemingly randomly on occasion it switches and doesn't switch back for about 10 minutes. I think it has to go through its cycle.

I don't pay any attention to it anymore and just assume the Toyota engineers knew what they were doing.

 

But I think...  if I planned (saved traction Battery charge) to drive in EV mode in, for ex, town , village or scool areas, I do want the car to be able to do just that, there and then.

[Nick72]

8 minutes ago, HSDish said:

But I think...  if I planned (saved traction battery charge) to drive in EV mode in, for ex, town , village or scool areas, I do want the car to be able to do just that, there and then.

That was my original expectation.

But it will be for good reason that it switches out.

It should occur rarely so that should be consolation.

Note, my last French PHEV wouldn't go into EV mode with a full Battery on numerous occasions and would drop out of EV mode just about every day rather than the RAV4 only does it once every 2 to 4 weeks in my experience.

[Torrox]

My new rav has just done 250 miles and I observed the other day it behaved similar to what op describes. I changed from EV HV for a couple of miles and as I approached city centre I changed back to EV. The dash said EV but could still hear the ice noise. I switched back to HV then EV but no changed. The engine went on for at least 2-3 miles then it stopped. I talked to the dealer and he said it's quite normal. I guessed I haven't used the engine a lot, from new, so it may have tried to check things out? Few days ago I checked this issue again and this time it behaved similarly like the first time but it was much shorter, may be 1 mile. I don't know if the rav4 phev should switches EV to HV then back to EV instantaneous?

 

 

[kucyk]

1 hour ago, Torrox said:

My new rav has just done 250 miles and I observed the other day it behaved similar to what op describes. I changed from EV HV for a couple of miles and as I approached city centre I changed back to EV. The dash said EV but could still hear the ice noise. I switched back to HV then EV but no changed. The engine went on for at least 2-3 miles then it stopped.

It's normal. From my experience by observing the coolant temperature, when you start the engine, the coolant temperature needs to raise to around 68 degrees. The duration for this process will differ, depending on the outside temperature and the type of driving (city or motorway). The engine oil temperature is not a significant factor for engine shutdown. I've noticed that once the coolant warms up, the car will turn off the engine even when the oil temperature is at 38 degrees but will continue using the coolant to warm it up.

1 hour ago, Torrox said:

 I don't know if the rav4 phev should switches EV to HV then back to EV instantaneous?

Only if the coolant is already warmed up but it sometimes takes up to 30 seconds from my experience.

[HSDish]

On 4/3/2024 at 10:24 PM, Nick72 said:

That was my original expectation.

But it will be for good reason that it switches out.

It should occur rarely so that should be consolation.

Note, my last French PHEV wouldn't go into EV mode with a full battery on numerous occasions and would drop out of EV mode just about every day rather than the RAV4 only does it once every 2 to 4 weeks in my experience.

What brand/model was Your French PHEV ?

[Nick72]

On 4/6/2024 at 8:57 PM, HSDish said:

What brand/model was Your French PHEV ?

Peugeot 3008 300GT PHEV. Lovely looking car, interior was amazing, slightly faster than the RAV, great spec on paper, some superb innovative features. 50 50 AWD in electric mode was great but you had to select 4WD mode otherwise it was rear wheel Drive in EV mode or mostly FWD in hybrid mode. Better car off road than the R4P. Took a while to get used to this switching of drive.

 

But... Drive train totally and utterly shockingly ****. Got 12 miles a charge in winter despite driving like an old man. Constant drive train failures. Connectivity issues 9 times out of 10 with the App. Horrific clunk switching EV to hybrid modes. Leaky sun roof which was unfixed after about 5 or 6 attempts of different approaches. Dealer utterly deplorable and idiotic. Many other failures. 6 months in the dealership of about 9 or 10 months of ownership (company car lease) is not an exaggeration. It really did spend most of the time with the dealer. Worst car by a million miles I've ever had from the dozens of cars I've had.

 

Gave it back in the end and they accepted it back. Wasn't just a lemon because most other owners had the same issues. It was just a lemon on a tree of lemons.

 

The 3008 non PHEV model has won awards so I can only think they simply did not know what they were doing with PHEVs or hybrid tech.

[HSDish]

1 hour ago, Nick72 said:

Peugeot 3008 300GT PHEV. Lovely looking car, interior was amazing, slightly faster than the RAV, great spec on paper, some superb innovative features. 50 50 AWD in electric mode was great but you had to select 4WD mode otherwise it was rear wheel Drive in EV mode or mostly FWD in hybrid mode. Better car off road than the R4P. Took a while to get used to this switching of drive.

 

But... Drive train totally and utterly shockingly ****. Got 12 miles a charge in winter despite driving like an old man. Constant drive train failures. Connectivity issues 9 times out of 10 with the App. Horrific clunk switching EV to hybrid modes. Leaky sun roof which was unfixed after about 5 or 6 attempts of different approaches. Dealer utterly deplorable and idiotic. Many other failures. 6 months in the dealership of about 9 or 10 months of ownership (company car lease) is not an exaggeration. It really did spend most of the time with the dealer. Worst car by a million miles I've ever had from the dozens of cars I've had.

 

Gave it back in the end and they accepted it back. Wasn't just a lemon because most other owners had the same issues. It was just a lemon on a tree of lemons.

 

The 3008 non PHEV model has won awards so I can only think they simply did not know what they were doing with PHEVs or hybrid tech.

My experience of Frensh cars is that they are verry comfortable and and in front of inventions but... not top notch in quality.

Our youngest daughter use a wheelchair so we have looked at Toyota Proace City Verso (preferably electric) cause its abilities to load the wheelchair a bit easier but Proace is an Stellantis ( as Citroen and Peugeot) car and I suppose its not standard Toyota standard