Crunch when selecting reverse & 1st gear difficult when cold

[74hct04]

My iQ has an irritating clutch / gearbox problem.

If selecting reverse from a cold start, no-matter how slowly I move the gearstick, it crunches into gear. The workaround is to select 1st and bring the clutch to the bite, then select reverse. Now the second problem; 1st is also significantly more difficult to engage when the gearbox is 'cold', requiring a firm shove. Once I've been driving for a short while, both of these problems disappear.

The car appears to have had a new clutch fitted around 10,000 miles ago, according to the history I have on it. (Although that depends on what "attend to clutch slipping" actually resulted in).

I've changed the gear oil which hasn't changed the crunch but does seem to have made the difficulty engaging 1st a permanent, rather than intermittent problem.

There's a barely-noticeable gearbox whine if I start the car from cold, put in into 1st, then drop back into neutral.

Any ideas whether there's anything I can try please?

 

 

[Roker]

Sounds like the clutch is not fully disengaging. See if the slave cylinder is going full travel or needs bleeding

[74hct04]

Thanks Roker. These cars have a concentric slave/release bearing combination in the bellhousing so the slave travel would be difficult to see.

Reading on a forum elsewhere for a different car, apparently this can indeed be caused by trapped air and can be fixed with a bleed. In that case, the bit I am struggling to understand is why it's temperature dependant.

Looks like I need to find a friend to try bleeding the clutch then. We change did brake fluid at the last service, but not that in the clutch line (and the car has had this issue since I've owned it).

[Jikky]

Hi Rob,I had the same thing when I purchased my IQ3,I had the clutch and brake fluid changed and the gear cables adjusted under warranty and it solved the problem,,but still sometimes I have to select reverse or 1st twice when the engine is cold.

 

[74hct04]

Thank you very much indeed John. What you and Craig have experienced sounds very familiar: in fact, before I changed the gear oil, I would sometimes have difficulty selecting 2nd, too. (That was the reason I performed the change early last autumn).

 

[74hct04]

Update: The clutch is now bled (it needed it - the fluid started out as black), but the problem persists. I really don't feel like checking the clutch pedal height and freeplay and pushrod freeplay right now, but I'd imagine that might be worth a look.

I also cleaned the PCV and checked the MAP sensor whilst I was at it (unrelated to the gearbox issue). The PCV was already pretty clean and the MAP was almost perfect (so I left it well alone other than a very light smear of red rubber grease on the o-ring). I don't seem to be using a drop of oil either, so there's something to be happy about.

[Jikky]

Seems gear cable adjustment mabe the probable culprit,looking on other forums,seem point to gear cable adjustmemt with difficult gear change,with reverse 1 and2, as in the same problem with the GR Yaris
 

[Cyker]

With the 1.33 engine there is a known problem with the gear selector cables not being set up properly which causes symptoms like these (And I strongly suspect that was the cause of the gearbox failing in my Mk2 Yaris!) but I've not heard of it for the 1.0L engines; Might be worth checking anyway just in case...!

 

[74hct04]

Thanks very much. It looks like trying to adjust the gear selector cables will be my next avenue of investigation.

[74hct04]

I am still wondering whether to invest the time and necessary pain(!) in adjusting the gear linkage... It's hard to imagine this is the root cause as it seems like symptoms of the clutch dragging - the crunch into reverse being particularly worrying from the perspective of the life of the gearbox.

@Jikky Did you have the crunch/grind into reverse (even extemely slowly and gently), too?

[Jikky]

On 5/5/2024 at 12:17 PM, 74hct04 said:

I am still wondering whether to invest the time and necessary pain(!) in adjusting the gear linkage... It's hard to imagine this is the root cause as it seems like symptoms of the clutch dragging - the crunch into reverse being particularly worrying from the perspective of the life of the gearbox.

@Jikky Did you have the crunch/grind into reverse (even extemely slowly and gently), too?

Hi rob,the story was that I brought the car from a Mitsubishi main dealer 80 miles from home,it came with a gold warranty which covered the engine and gearbox,after a few days of having the car I found I was having difficulty selecting 1st 2nd and reverse.I complained to them and they said I have to take the car to them and leave it there for 3 days for repair,which was impossible,I demanded I take the car to my local toyota main dealer which they agreed.Speaking to the (jobsworth!!)toyota mechanic I said can you change the clutch as its a warranty job,he refused and said the gear cables need ajusting and a brake/clutch fluid change,he did the job which took an hour.

Yes it made huge difference.

Yes the car was crunching into reverse with a slight jolt backwards,but I dont remember it grinding,also it was crunching into 1st gear and with a slight jolt forwards. 

For a 1 hour main dealer job I would say its worth a try.

I have the iq3 but the gear linkage system appears to be the same with the 1litre.

Hope this helps and good luck my friend.

[74hct04]

Thank you very much indeed, @Jikky  - an interesting story. You've encouraged me that I should investigate the gear cable adjustment next!

When you say there was a jolt, do you mean the change wasn't smooth, such that the car jolted (as though there was a problem with the clutch), or did the gear lever (or something else) jolt? Sorry for all the questions but I think elaboration of such details might help.


 

[Jikky]

33 minutes ago, 74hct04 said:

Thank you very much indeed, @Jikky  - an interesting story. You've encouraged me that I should investigate the gear cable adjustment next!

When you say there was a jolt, do you mean the change wasn't smooth, such that the car jolted (as though there was a problem with the clutch), or did the gear lever (or something else) jolt? Sorry for all the questions but I think elaboration of such details might help.


 

Yes it was such that the car jolted slightly as though there was a problem with the clutch biting too low to the floor,to describe it was like an auto gearbox jolt  forward (or a motorcycle with bad clutch ajustment as in a slight jolt putting it into gear)

[74hct04]

Thanks very much indeed. My car doesn't jolt but the gearchange into 1st or 2nd can become notchy/stiff and need a real shove.

[Jikky]

9 minutes ago, 74hct04 said:

Thanks very much indeed. My car doesn't jolt but the gearchange into 1st or 2nd can become notchy/stiff and need a real shove.

Seems like the gear cables may be the culprit if its only 1st and 2nd,surely it would be all gears if its clutch wear, my iq is sometimes stiff to get into reverse on a cold winters morning and I find double clutching before putting it into gear works

[74hct04]

Thanks. I interpreted the "attend to slipping clutch" in my service & repair history log about 11,000 miles ago as a clutch replacement. That and the fact the subframe is slightly misaligned with stacked concentric panels above it suggests the correct allignment tool wasn't used when bolting the subframe back on... Could be wrong! Since the car is an ex-government vehicle which I know for a fact was fleet-serviced, along with many other marques, this seems plausible.

Sadly double-declutching doesn't work for my reverse problem...

[Mjolinor]

Engine off, clutch down, first gear.

Is the car as easy to push as it is in neutral?

 

[74hct04]

As in push the car forward by hand? I've not tried yet but can have a go, in the not-too-distant future. Since I'm technically minded, what are you thinking?

Thank you,

R

[Mjolinor]

I am thinking that the symptoms may be oil on the clutch plate. If the clutch is dragging but the clutch arm seems to be moving OK then it can be oil making the clutch plate stick. If it is harder to push in gear than in neutral then I would try slipping the clutch quite hard for a few seconds and see if it improves. Don't bugger the clutch overheating it or wearing it out.

Just try pushing it in and out of gear first and see if there is a difference.

[74hct04]

@Mjolinor I can't push the car at all in first. Well it can be moved a couple of inches only, and one arm pressure is removed, it rocks backwards a little. It's very easy to push in neutral.

Could it be the clutch disc sticking on it's splines or a faulty cover assembly? It's an odd one!

I might try slipping the clutch as you suggest but am a bit worried about overdoing it!

[Mjolinor]

Are you trying to push it with someone in the car pressing the clutch? You should be.

Engine off, clutch down , first gear. Can it be pushed?

 

[74hct04]

With the engine off, clutch down and first gear selected, the car can be pushed. I was doing this myself with one foot on the ground but the resistance felt roughly the same as when pushing with my foot with the car out of gear...

Thank you.

[Mjolinor]

OK so not likely to be oil contamination then.

You could try a vicious slip of the clutch for a few seconds and see if it improves the crunching.

 

[74hct04]

Althought I've just part exchanged the iQ (and will only have it until the new vechile has been prepared and insured) I wanted to update you:

The problem appears to have been me! After starting the car, if I wait for the revs to fall (and hence the gearbox to stop spinning) I can put the car into reverse without a crunch. This is repeatable, too 🙂