Fuel quality

[Mjolinor]

1 hour ago, jthspace said:

This may be of interest, ref availability and additive.  If you've got petrol garden tools as well. Applies to my 1993 MX5

E5 phased out in Europe

A recent tour to Ireland has raised a serious concern regarding fuel availability in the EU for Veteran, Vintage, Classics and some cars built up to the early 2000s.

Many of you will know that E5 (98/99 Octane fuel with 5% ethanol) is currently being phased out in the EU and will continue to be less and less available.

Although the roll out of this crazy policy was due to start rolling out in Ireland in July, E5 fuel is now no longer available in Ireland – at all. Only diesel and 95 Octane E10 are sold, and a 99 Octane E10 is available in densely populated areas, but it is seriously hit and miss. Surprisingly, there has been little publicity, warnings, or knowledge among the locals and Ireland’s AA has assured people with Classics that their cars ‘should’ be fine on E10, when all experts say they won’t be!

In almost all motorway filling stations in France, E5 is no longer available, but it is available in most rural areas.

Where E5 is no longer available, a high octane E10 grade called Super Plus is often available. Please note whist Super Plus carries the correct octane rating, it still has 10% Ethanol content, which is no good for the cars described above, as the corrosive effects of the low lead, high ethanol content remain.

For France, there is a website (in French only) that lists every fuel station and which grades of fuel they carry. If you require E5 you can select that grade and it’ll show where the nearest fuel station is. You can visit this site here – www.prix-carburants.gouv.fr/

In Ireland, those travelling with classic or vintage cars will face significant trouble if you are not prepared. We struggled to find octane booster and ethanol protector, as they were scarcely available, despite the AA Ireland saying they are widely available. Therefore, we urge all visitors to Ireland with vehicles unable to run on E10 fuel to bring the necessary additives with them.

Please note that if your car is not E10 complaint, the advice is to carry with you in the car, at all times, a good quality Octane Booster product, such as Millers VSPe Power Plus or similar – this is a combination of an Octane Booster and an Ethanol Protector. This means you can fill up with E10 95 octane, and then add the additive. In the event you can buy E10 Super Plus, you will still need an Ethanol Protector product such as Millers EPS Ethanol Protection System Fuel Additive Treatment Additive, which is endorsed by the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs. (This is not an advert for Millers!)

Experts agree that where there is no option, filling up with a tank of 95 octane E10 will not cause damage in isolation but you need to refuel with E5 as soon as possible or use an additive on the next fill.

You should consider upgrading your fuel system to be able to handle E10, which includes compatible fuel lines and carburettor components, but this will not counter the effects the high ethanol has on the engine, so you will still need to run an ethanol protector additive, especially if your car stands for long periods of time.

 

It's easier to just take the Ethanol out. True you lose 10% of your fuel but the problems disappear.

Also, if you are so inclined you can drink what you take out. 🙂

 

[jthspace]

Yep, pretty easy but you're liable to lose your garage, or at least the roof 🤣😂

[bathtub tom]

5 hours ago, mpm235 said:

(a) Kronenbourg 1664 and (b) Greta Turdberg's wee. 

Can you detect the difference?

[bathtub tom]

3 hours ago, jthspace said:

E5 phased out in Europe

I understand aircraft petrol is ethanol free. How do light aircraft visitors cope?

[CPN]

9 minutes ago, bathtub tom said:

I understand aircraft petrol is ethanol free. How do light aircraft visitors cope?

A very astute question!!

[anchorman]

7 hours ago, SouperChris said:

there is no meaningful difference.

In what?

[jthspace]

22 minutes ago, bathtub tom said:

I understand aircraft petrol is ethanol free. How do light aircraft visitors cope?

Light aircraft use Avgas, 100 or 100LL (low lead). Remember when 5* was withdrawn? Some car owners used Avgas instead. It burns very hot.  Likewise, Avgas got expensive and 4* was cheaper, so 'plane users used that and there were a LOT of engines being damaged as valve seats burnt out.

Jets use Jet A1 (kerosene).

 

[MikeSh]

2 hours ago, jthspace said:

Jets use Jet A1 (kerosene).

That brings back memories. I flew Seakings for a few years (around 1970) which used a standard UK fuel (can't remember the code) which we were used to. Then we visited the US and refuelled in Norfolk, Virginia with the 'local' stuff - JP4 IIRC. When we started the engines it was quite the occasion ... Very quick ignition and spin up, and EGTs a lot higher than our usual. 

Typical America 🙂

[anchorman]

5 hours ago, jthspace said:

Light aircraft use Avgas, 100 or 100LL (low lead). Remember when 5* was withdrawn? Some car owners used Avgas instead. It burns very hot.  Likewise, Avgas got expensive and 4* was cheaper, so 'plane users used that and there were a LOT of engines being damaged as valve seats burnt out.

Jets use Jet A1 (kerosene).

 

This is a proper barbecue conversation that wanders off but is essential.  I can’t help looking back after long haul and wondering how many million times those engines spun without a break to keep us up there.  Amazing things.  

[Roy124]

9 hours ago, jthspace said:

Light aircraft use Avgas, 100 or 100LL (low lead). Remember when 5* was withdrawn?

 

Not all.  We had a visiting Auster and we had to run him to the local filling station with a 5g Jerry can.  Our Avgas was fine for the Spits and Hurricane but he needed 2*, 95 leaded.

[MikeSh]

7 hours ago, anchorman said:

how many million times those engines spun without a break to keep us up there.  Amazing things.

Gas turbines are incredibly reliable. I'm not sure about now but 20 years or so back it was the auxiliaries, fuel pumps, oil pumps, etc, that were the weak link so (at least some) long haul jets had 2 sets on each engine to meet ETOPS requirements. 

And the size is something. Flew in a 787 a few months back and the boarding was through the door just in front of the wing. It was a bus-ride from the terminal, so had air-stairs such that we passed a few feet in front of the port engine. You see pictures but when you are actually there ... it's impressive.

[anchorman]

9 hours ago, MikeSh said:

Gas turbines are incredibly reliable. I'm not sure about now but 20 years or so back it was the auxiliaries, fuel pumps, oil pumps, etc, that were the weak link so (at least some) long haul jets had 2 sets on each engine to meet ETOPS requirements. 

And the size is something. Flew in a 787 a few months back and the boarding was through the door just in front of the wing. It was a bus-ride from the terminal, so had air-stairs such that we passed a few feet in front of the port engine. You see pictures but when you are actually there ... it's impressive.

Oh amazing.  I went to Rolls Royce at Derby and was given a fan blade to handle.  This was quite a big thing, maybe a metre and a half in diameter and it was as light as polystyrene.