Shown fuel consumption at end of a journey

[Haliotis]

When i switch off my C-HR, the MFD shows amount of petrol used in MPG, and use of electric as a percentage.

I am wondering how this is calculated.  (a) can the car use electric and petrol simultaneously, or does only use one or the other?  (b) is the recorded MPG calculated on the whole of the journey, or just when petrol is being consumed?    (c) is the consumed electric figure in percentage a direct indication of the amount of time or the number of miles that the car has been in electric mode?   I find it impossible to deduce any sensible breakdown of the information.

[philip42h]

So:

1. Our hybrids can run on petrol, electricity or both at the same time.
2. The recorded MPG reflects the whole journey - i.e. it is the total miles covered / total fuel burned.
3. The percentage EV time is delightfully irrelevant, but I believe it reflect the proportion of the total time for which the engine is Off.

[Roy124]

I am wondering how this is calculated.  (a) can the car use electric and petrol simultaneously, or does only use one or the other?  

Yes.  When you are cruising at, say, 60 the car will flip flop between ICE and EV as the road undulates.  Press the pedal to the metal to accelerate and the EV will kick in to give you max power.

(b) is the recorded MPG calculated on the whole of the journey, or just when petrol is being consumed?

The whole journey

(c) is the consumed electric figure in percentage a direct indication of the amount of time or the number of miles that the car has been in electric mode?  

Not sure but probably time and it will be including the time when it is running in conjunction with ICE.

You might try an experiment.  Say, drive cold for 5 minutes with AC and headlights on  - stop and remain in Ready mode for 5 minutes with AC and headlights off.

Time the length of time in the ready mode stage when the ICE kicks in.

Switch off.  

In Stage One you should have been in ICE most of the time and distance.   In Stage Two you should be in EV for most of the time.

If the EV % is based on time it should be around 50%.  If based on distance EV will be less than ICE.   I guess:)

[Roy124]

4 minutes ago, philip42h said:

1. The percentage EV time is delightfully irrelevant, but I believe it reflect the proportion of the total time for which the engine is Off.

Which might be when the energy meter is low and mpg full scale 150+.

[Haliotis]

Thanks, guys, for the explanations given.  I have never managed to spot the EV light being on when the engine is using petrol.   From the comments, I am assuming that, on a typical journey, the engine is mainly running on ICE with the hybrid unit providing a supplementary role.  

This causes me to wonder heather it is worth having a hybrid instead of a straightforward ICE vehicle.  Any perceived savings are offset by other factors.  The emission figures and VED rates give no obvious financial advantages, and the higher costs of buying a hybrid, taking into consideration the insurers claiming that hybrids are a greater fire risk and more expensive to repair, are we being sold a pup where hybrids are concerned?

For myself, reverting to a conventional ICE vehicle seems to be the sensible way forward.

[philip42h]

2 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

I have never managed to spot the EV light being on when the engine is using petrol.   From the comments, I am assuming that, on a typical journey, the engine is mainly running on ICE with the hybrid unit providing a supplementary role.  

This causes me to wonder heather it is worth having a hybrid ...

No, no, no ...

In the My Toyota app, take a look at you latest Trip Summary. It traces the route of your trip and highlights, in blue, the sections of that trip when the ICE was switched off and the car was running in 'pure' EV mode. For me that is typically up to half the time. Every time that you lift off, run downhill, or drive slowly there is a decent chance that the engine will switch off. 

You won't necessarily notice - the stopping and starting of the engine is imperceptible and we still get to enjoy any road or wind noise (and of course the radio). I don't know about you but I spend most of my time watching the road rather than the little EV light so don't necessarily know whether it is on or off.

Revert if you want to, I'm sticking with hybrid for now and going full EV next ... 😉 

[Parts-King]

27 minutes ago, Haliotis said:

taking into consideration the insurers claiming that hybrids are a greater fire risk and more expensive to repair, are we being sold a pup where hybrids are concerned?

Whilst we don't have the figures, I can absolutely say with confidence that Toyota Hybrid Battery fires are almost non existent, a remark usually made by people with an agenda against Hybrid/EV. I have worked with Hybrid cars over 25 years and NEVER seen one go on fire, not saying it cannot happen, but can say with confidence your everyday diesel is more likely to go on fire than an EV. 

[forkingabout]

Out of all the vehicles I've owned so far, only my C-HR hybrid manages to regularly return more MPG then the official test figures without trying. 

 

 

FWIW - The missus has just ordered herself a Yaris Cross hybrid to replace an older ICE vehicle. 

[Haliotis]

1 hour ago, Parts-King said:

Whilst we don't have the figures, I can absolutely say with confidence that Toyota Hybrid battery fires are almost non existent, a remark usually made by people with an agenda against Hybrid/EV. I have worked with Hybrid cars over 25 years and NEVER seen one go on fire, not saying it cannot happen, but can say with confidence your everyday diesel is more likely to go on fire than an EV. 

That makes it reasonable to expect insurers to rate individual makes/models on actual performance - not conveniently apply blanket cover on the whole range.

I have reservations about diesel fires - petrol is a far more volatile liquid.

[Cyker]

It's a bit swings and roundabouts with petrol and diesel fires - Petrol will burn if you look at it funny, and has a tendency to explode because it vaporizes so easily, but it's relatively easy to put out, and spilt petrol evaporates fairly quickly and doesn't leave a slippery surface.

Diesel won't combust without any outside help, e.g. dripping on a hot exhaust manifold, but once it gets going it burns very fiercely and is much harder to put out. Worse, if it gets on the road it doesn't evaporate but seeps into the tarmac and creates a very slippery surface, and even when cleaned off it can soak into the tarmac and 'sweat' back out in e.g. summer, which is why the general protocol is that whole section needs to be dug up and resurfaced unless it's a very minor spill.

 

 

With Toyota hybrids, they are statistically the most reliable cars, even more so than EV's, so definitely not a 'pup'. It wasn't until other manufacturers started to put out hybrids that we started seeing reliability issues with theirs - They make the cars nicer and plusher on the surface, but cut corners and trim margins in the drivetrain where you can't see and just hope it lasts out the warranty period.

When people complain about the cost of toyota hybrids, the incredible reliability is why the cost is relatively high - Toyota engineer the cars properly, they don't cut corners on the important things.

It's why reviewers always have a bias against Toyotas - They only have the car for 2 minutes and are obsessed with the cabin materials and harp on about contrast stitching and soft plastics and what kind of cow the leather came from and how the wood smells or how big the touch screen and alloy rims are etc.

Because of that, many manufacturers build cars to those things to score points with the reviewers, but cut corners in the parts that reviewers never touch upon, things that, to me at least, actually matter; That's why in all other cars you can expect to have to replace random bushings, bearings, suspension components, hoses etc. several times over the course of its life, which I thought was a normal thing with cars, but now Toyota have shown me that isn't the case I can't go back to that!

I even love the little things like they put an access hatch to get at the oil filter so you don't have to undo a bazillion fasteners to remove the entire undertray, or that there's a hook for the fuel filler cap so it doesn't just rest on the bodywork.

They ain't perfect but they got it where it counts, to paraphrase Han Solo  

[Parts-King]

1 hour ago, Haliotis said:

That makes it reasonable to expect insurers to rate individual makes/models on actual performance - not conveniently apply blanket cover on the whole range.

I have reservations about diesel fires - petrol is a far more volatile liquid.

Nowhere near as volatile, but just YouTube diesel van fires in particular. They are more prone to leaks on older models, and newer models are under very high pressure. Like I said, I have no idea of the actual stats, but when you look on the socials and people say "another EV/Plugin goes on fire" it generally is not true, it's usually something diesel that has caught fire 

[Roy124]

4 hours ago, Haliotis said:

Thanks, guys, for the explanations given.  I have never managed to spot the EV light being on when the engine is using petrol.   From the comments, I am assuming that, on a typical journey, the engine is mainly running on ICE with the hybrid unit providing a supplementary role.  

......

For myself, reverting to a conventional ICE vehicle seems to be the sensible way forward.

No.

Take a Corolla with a 1.8 engine.  That is actually a very large engine on today's market.   Many similar cars are using 1ltr or less.

Watch the instantaneous mpg when powering with ICE.  I saw it was typically around 25-30 mpg.  Post trip analytics often show mpg around 60 and EV use around 50%.  We might deduce the ICE mpg without any EV would be much nearer 30 than 60.

[Haliotis]

As with most cars, owners will find their likes and dislikes in particular models, as I have found with my C-HR.  But, accepting that I would find items to critise in any make of vehicle, I must admit that I feel my Toyota is as well made (possibly better) than other mass produced cars.  My criticism over the insurance aspect for EVs would apply whatever make of vehicle I had.   Also, for a 1.8 engine, I will concede that the indicated fuel consumption for my hybrid on any journey is consistently better than any ICE car I have owned.

[Roy124]

The best mpg I got in my E220D was still below the worst I got in my Corolla.   My diesel Fiesta  came close too.

[DAF XF]

6 hours ago, Cyker said:

It's why reviewers always have a bias against Toyotas - They only have the car for 2 minutes and are obsessed with the cabin materials and harp on about contrast stitching and soft plastics and what kind of cow the leather came from and how the wood smells or how big the touch screen and alloy rims are etc.

Ahh yes that is my bug bear too - all the bottoms of the door are scratchy poor quality plastics.  I must be in the minority because I can't remember the last time I caressed the the door bins while nipping to the supermarket or on the daily commute 😄 

[Chrisg99]

19 hours ago, forkingabout said:

Out of all the vehicles I've owned so far, only my C-HR hybrid manages to regularly return more MPG then the official test figures without trying. 

 

 

FWIW - The missus has just ordered herself a Yaris Cross hybrid to replace an older ICE vehicle. 

But! 8.1 miles in 26 minutes is hardly a world record pace. I would expect these sorts of MPG figures at that speed.

[forkingabout]

14 minutes ago, Chrisg99 said:

But! 8.1 miles in 26 minutes is hardly a world record pace. I would expect these sorts of MPG figures at that speed.

The Police don't really like it when you exceed the 20, 30 & 40 mph speed limits around the town, also other traffic on the roads gets in the way of making continuous progress. 

 

[Roy124]

50 minutes ago, forkingabout said:

The Police don't really like it when you exceed the 20, 30 & 40 mph speed limits around the town, also other traffic on the roads gets in the way of making continuous progress. 

 

And where EV excels.  I fitted stop/start 50 years ago but each start required a fresh engine start and delayed warming up.  Basic principle was good but poor in practise.

[Penfold72]

Maybe a little slightly off topic, but I've noticed that the predicted range drops when in EV mode.  I assumed it was how much range I had before running out of petrol.  Ive only noticed it when Ive been low on fuel, and switched the MFD to show miles left.  

Ive got to say though, this is one of the best cards I have owned. MPG is much better than the previous KIA diesel I had, average over the course of the week, around 55-60MPG, confirmed when I do a calculation of miles covered over fuel used. I do alot of motorway driving as well.

[DAF XF]

9 hours ago, Penfold72 said:

Maybe a little slightly off topic, but I've noticed that the predicted range drops when in EV mode.  I assumed it was how much range I had before running out of petrol.  Ive only noticed it when Ive been low on fuel, and switched the MFD to show miles left.  

Ive got to say though, this is one of the best cards I have owned. MPG is much better than the previous KIA diesel I had, average over the course of the week, around 55-60MPG, confirmed when I do a calculation of miles covered over fuel used. I do alot of motorway driving as well.

What Kia did you have?

[Penfold72]

4 hours ago, DAF XF said:

What Kia did you have?

2018 Sportage ISG4

[DAF XF]

8 minutes ago, Penfold72 said:

2018 Sportage ISG4

Good to hear as I'm just about to make the same move from a diesel sportage that was thirsty. What speed do you have to do in the chr to get such good mpg with a lot of motorway journeys?

[Haliotis]

With my C-HR hybrid I seem to get much better fuel consumption results than any other car I have owned - regardless of speed and/or type of journey, whether at busy times or not.  All my cars have been in the 1.3L to 2.0L reange.

[Penfold72]

I drive it normally to be honest. I do ease off the throttle when cruising on the motorway as the CVT tends to keep it at the same speeds. I travel 30 odd miles to work, motorway and A,B roads. The car tends to stay in EV mode off the motorway, and it's around 45 to 55 percent of the time in EV.

[Haliotis]

On 4/7/2024 at 9:26 PM, philip42h said:

So:

1. Our hybrids can run on petrol, electricity or both at the same time.
2. The recorded MPG reflects the whole journey - i.e. it is the total miles covered / total fuel burned.
3. The percentage EV time is delightfully irrelevant, but I believe it reflect the proportion of the total time for which the engine is Off.

Been checking car’s behaviour over last few weeks.  The EV light is illuminated when the car is running on electric, and this never comes on when the ICE is being used, so I feel reasonably certain that the two never work simultaneously.