HEV or PHEV

[Sealiedog]

Hello, long time no post.

My current car is a 2021 Excel HEV and I'm considering replacing it with a PHEV. I'm hoping I can get some advice. What can I expect difference wise with a 2024 PHEV? I mostly love the current car, but it's always bugged me a bit how much wind and tyre noise there is at speed. Anything else that will stand out, apart from the power of course? I'll get a test drive soon, but some opinion from the experts here would be great. Thanks in advance.

[philip42h]

PHEV every time - it's simply a better car ...

Rumour has it that it is better insulated so quieter, but equally it will run more often in EV mode and our engine does make a bit of a racket!

But, you can't have a PHEV Excel so you may lose some toys you currently enjoy. And the towing capacity of the HEV beats that of the PHEV should that be of any concern for you.

[Broadway One]

Hi.....may I suggest you check out this excellent posting included earlier by ernib.

Sure all your queries will be well & comprehensively covered. 
Interesting that Toyota are pushing back re EV's, they see a future for PHEV's as a family car

Just need to address the pricing. 

Barry Wright, Lancashire.     

 

[Hybrid21]

Certainly agree Richard the tyre/road noise is a bit horrendous in the RAV HEV.

It's probably the one thing that will make me change to something else, unless a set of better tyres would help. The original Toyo tyres have done about 16,500mls so will need to wait a wee bit longer to change.

[philip42h]

1 minute ago, Hybrid21 said:

Certainly agree Richard the tyre/road noise is a bit horrendous in the RAV HEV.

It's probably the one thing that will make me change to something else, unless a set of better tyres would help. The original Toyo tyres have done about 16,500mls so will need to wait a wee bit longer to change.

My Cross Climates are perfectly acceptable - road, wind and engine noise are all at the same sort of level (until I hit the loud pedal!).

[Nick72]

Wind and road noise is still nasty in the PHEV. I can't say where it stands versus the HEV but compared to most other cars I've had it is the worst.  I have to turn the stereo to near max just to hear it when cruising at 75mph. 

Other than that, it is very fast, astonishing acceleration from any starting speed. Useful off road. Lovely quiet EV motoring under 50mph when the wind and road noise is low. 50 miles per charge averaged over a year. 

GR Sport model looks awesome. Upgrading from a 2021 R4P with any luck end August although my company car folks have fallen out with Toyota so I'm hoping they can come to terms soon. Otherwise I'm not sure what I'll do. Probably get a DACIA AWD Duster. Good car for 20k. Or go the other way and get a Merc SUV. Dunno. Heart set on the PHEV GR Sport.

[Sealiedog]

18 minutes ago, Nick72 said:

Wind and road noise is still nasty in the PHEV. I can't say where it stands versus the HEV but compared to most other cars I've had it is the worst.  I have to turn the stereo to near max just to hear it when cruising at 75mph. 

Other than that, it is very fast, astonishing acceleration from any starting speed. Useful off road. Lovely quiet EV motoring under 50mph when the wind and road noise is low. 50 miles per charge averaged over a year. 

GR Sport model looks awesome. Upgrading from a 2021 R4P with any luck end August although my company car folks have fallen out with Toyota so I'm hoping they can come to terms soon. Otherwise I'm not sure what I'll do. Probably get a DACIA AWD Duster. Good car for 20k. Or go the other way and get a Merc SUV. Dunno. Heart set on the PHEV GR Sport.

I thought I heard a while ago that there was extra insulation in the PHEV. I had previously ruled it out but I've been coming back to it, just because on paper it looks like the best plugin out there for anywhere close to reasonable money.

[Sealiedog]

3 hours ago, Broadway One said:

Hi.....may I suggest you check out this excellent posting included earlier by ernib.

Sure all your queries will be well & comprehensively covered. 
Interesting that Toyota are pushing back re EV's, they see a future for PHEV's as a family car

Just need to address the pricing. 

Barry Wright, Lancashire.     

 

I'll have a look, thanks.

[NASY]

I don't get the wind and road noise in my PHEV - no idea why it should be different to Nick's unless he is hyper sensitive. Also the stereo never needs to be anywhere near max to be really loud with the JBL and I like music loud. PHEV really is a big jump from HEV in all respects and the price is now just back to where it was at launch - not cheap but try to find a genuine competitor on all counts and you'll maybe think it's a bargain.

[Nick72]

2 hours ago, Sealiedog said:

I thought I heard a while ago that there was extra insulation in the PHEV. I had previously ruled it out but I've been coming back to it, just because on paper it looks like the best plugin out there for anywhere close to reasonable money.

It is without doubt the best PHEV overall. But it's really noisy on the motorway. Wind and road noise. And the engine with CVT makes a loud whine. But these are really the only flaws. Hate to think how bad the noise is without the extra insulation.

Only really an issue at 55mph and over. Motorway journeys at 70 plus mph and it's very loud. 

Expect the Lexus built on the same power train to be much more serene.

[Nick72]

57 minutes ago, NASY said:

I don't get the wind and road noise in my PHEV - no idea why it should be different to Nick's unless he is hyper sensitive. Also the stereo never needs to be anywhere near max to be really loud with the JBL and I like music loud. PHEV really is a big jump from HEV in all respects and the price is now just back to where it was at launch - not cheap but try to find a genuine competitor on all counts and you'll maybe think it's a bargain.

Very loud for me. Wind and road noise. Start to notice above 55mph. At 70 plus mph it starts to get really loud. 70mph GPS speed BTW. Not the Speedo which is about 5 or 6 mph fast when it reads 70mph. So actually you're doing 64mph. 

Definitely the loudest car I've had in the last 10 years when on the motorway.

Are you saying at 76mph Speedo ( 70mph actual as the error worsens with higher speeds ) that yours is not noisy?

Definitely not hypersensitive. Wide tyres, minimal insulation (why many Americans have done some DIY sound insulation on the US forums), aerodynamics of a brick. Unsurprisingly it's loud at higher speeds.

My long motorway business trips are comfortable in the car apart from the noise. That's one thing I was hoping they'd fix.

My points of comparison over the past decade includes; the Peugeot 3008 GT300 PHEV SUV (shockingly bad engineering of the power train and software but it was much quieter in the cockpit), AMG Merc, various BMWs, a Hyundai SUV (can't recall what it was called), Audi Q3, and many more. Lots of manufacturers. Company car driver and hire car user before I opted in to the company arrangements.

Could of course be something wrong with mine like bad seals or they forgot to put the insulation in.

[Hayzee]

1 hour ago, Nick72 said:

Expect the Lexus built on the same power train to be much more serene.

At motorway speeds you still get some wind noise but little road and engine noise. Pretty quiet most of the time as long as you treat the pedal sympathetically.

[Flatcoat]

4 hours ago, Nick72 said:

Wind and road noise is still nasty in the PHEV. I can't say where it stands versus the HEV but compared to most other cars I've had it is the worst.  I have to turn the stereo to near max just to hear it when cruising at 75mph. 

Other than that, it is very fast, astonishing acceleration from any starting speed. Useful off road. Lovely quiet EV motoring under 50mph when the wind and road noise is low. 50 miles per charge averaged over a year. 

GR Sport model looks awesome. Upgrading from a 2021 R4P with any luck end August although my company car folks have fallen out with Toyota so I'm hoping they can come to terms soon. Otherwise I'm not sure what I'll do. Probably get a DACIA AWD Duster. Good car for 20k. Or go the other way and get a Merc SUV. Dunno. Heart set on the PHEV GR Sport.

There is something wrong with your car is all I can say. I have driven/owned well over 50 cars in my life and not many have bettered the RAV PHEV. 

[CassUK]

Surely wind and tyre noise are all down to the body design of the car and the make/type of tyre fitted as OEM. Get the test drive in a new model to see for yourself, but whether it’s an HEV or PHEV should not make a difference to what you are experiencing. The basic body style isn’t exactly aerodynamic and you might be spending an awful lot of money to end up with the same outcome 🤔 

[ernieb]

I've found that it really does depend on road surfaces.  There are sections of the M1 which I use frequently where it's really very noisy but others where it's becomes so quiet that you feel you've gone deaf, this is predominately tyre noise, some wind noise. I generally travel at an indicated 65mph, so probably 62mph real at higher speeds it does increase but again the road surface is the key.  I'm still on the OEM tyres.

[Flatcoat]

When I test drive the HEV I did think that was noisy, especially road noise from the rear. It did make me pause on my decision. However my research showed The PHEV does have additional sound insulating measures including the glazing specification. That convinced me to go for the PHEV and for 99% of the time noise levels are fine. It is only when towing the caravan up long steeper inclines does the engine noise become an issue. I can drive and tow 400 miles in a day in the car and not feel tired or aching which says a lot about its qualities. 

[GBgraham]

I haven't driven a HEV RAV4, but I have no complaints with road or wind noise with my PHEV.

Of course road surfaces and/or tyres can effect the noise the same as say high cross winds but these would create noise on any car.

You can count on my vote for the PHEV.

[Mike2222]

What counts as acceptable on the subject of internal cabin noise is obviously a subjective factor, and as one can see by the previous opinions, it varies a lot and by a number of variables. 

 

For me, I would say I probably wouldn't enjoy motorway journeys without some form of music/radio on to help cover engine/road/tyre/wind noise, but not to the point that would make me think twice about choosing the car. And tbh, I can't say that this would be different in any other vehicle that I have driven at motorway speeds.

 

It will also depend what level of "luxury" brands you personally have experience of, ie if you're trading up from a rust bucket Robin Reliant van you'll likely think you've died and gone to heaven every time you go for a drive. If Zurich called and your investment bank has folded, on the same day your bitcoin wallet was raided by Russian gangsters, then you'll probably be always pining for the sensory deprivation tank in the Rolls Royce Ghost that you had to trade in at a loss. 

 

In all non motorway journeys the car seems to me to be very comfortable from an intrusive sound perspective.

[ELD1970]

Been driving my HEV for over six months on all sorts of roads and I’m impressed by the the ride quality and quietness in the cabin. 

[P_J]

I've recently done a couple 250 mile motorway runs in the PHEV and found it to be quieter and smoother than anything I've driven in before, and the lane centering and adaptive cruise made the journey a doddle. I jumped out of the car at the other end feeling liked I'd just nipped to the local shop. No aches or tiredness at all, and one of the journeys was a lot of stop/starts in often heavy rain. Great car for long journeys. As long as you turn off the audible speed limit notifications. 

 

[Nick72]

On 4/14/2024 at 10:24 PM, Hayzee said:

At motorway speeds you still get some wind noise but little road and engine noise. Pretty quiet most of the time as long as you treat the pedal sympathetically.

Could be were I'm going wrong 🤣

[Nick72]

On 4/14/2024 at 10:47 PM, Flatcoat said:

There is something wrong with your car is all I can say. I have driven/owned well over 50 cars in my life and not many have bettered the RAV PHEV. 

Love the car. Wind and road noise, not so much. Maybe there's something wrong with mine. Will have a comparator early September when I refresh to the gr sport version.

[Nick72]

On 4/14/2024 at 10:57 PM, CassUK said:

Surely wind and tyre noise are all down to the body design of the car and the make/type of tyre fitted as OEM. Get the test drive in a new model to see for yourself, but whether it’s an HEV or PHEV should not make a difference to what you are experiencing. The basic body style isn’t exactly aerodynamic and you might be spending an awful lot of money to end up with the same outcome 🤔 

There's improved sound proofing on the PHEV according to some posters. So whilst aero the same the cabin wind noise should be different.

There are better tyres than the OEM for grip, road noise, and wet and winter conditions. I plan to swap to CC2s.

[Nick72]

On 4/15/2024 at 7:03 AM, ernieb said:

I've found that it really does depend on road surfaces.  There are sections of the M1 which I use frequently where it's really very noisy but others where it's becomes so quiet that you feel you've gone deaf, this is predominately tyre noise, some wind noise. I generally travel at an indicated 65mph, so probably 62mph real at higher speeds it does increase but again the road surface is the key.  I'm still on the OEM tyres.

Good point Ernie. I'm mostly driving on the M6 and M5. And M6 north of Lancaster. 

[Nick72]

On 4/15/2024 at 10:07 AM, Mike2222 said:

What counts as acceptable on the subject of internal cabin noise is obviously a subjective factor, and as one can see by the previous opinions, it varies a lot and by a number of variables. 

 

For me, I would say I probably wouldn't enjoy motorway journeys without some form of music/radio on to help cover engine/road/tyre/wind noise, but not to the point that would make me think twice about choosing the car. And tbh, I can't say that this would be different in any other vehicle that I have driven at motorway speeds.

 

It will also depend what level of "luxury" brands you personally have experience of, ie if you're trading up from a rust bucket Robin Reliant van you'll likely think you've died and gone to heaven every time you go for a drive. If Zurich called and your investment bank has folded, on the same day your bitcoin wallet was raided by Russian gangsters, then you'll probably be always pining for the sensory deprivation tank in the Rolls Royce Ghost that you had to trade in at a loss. 

 

In all non motorway journeys the car seems to me to be very comfortable from an intrusive sound perspective.

Great points Mike. I'm mostly comparing to premium German brands with a couple of exceptions. 

Definitely not a big factor in a decision to acquire. But enough to make me want to point it out as a factor. Truth is there's no other PHEV remotely close to the R4P. Sure, some cars pip the R4P in some aspects but what matters is the drive train and after that a bunch of other things ahead of cabin noise.