Next time I’ll buy a Yaris instead!

[Roy124]

@Habu, you give me an idea.  When dropping off for a tyre change or service, set the display to show pressures. 

[Primus1]

When I picked ours up the pressures were so over inflated it had Goodyear written on the side and had two blokes holding it down with ropes…

[Cyker]

"Look behind you it's a Goodyear Blimp! ... No wait it's just Primus1 coming back from the dealer..."  

I do wonder if Mazda have overlooked the oil in their supply chain, as very few cars spec 0w8 and it is very hard to get hold of - Toyota dealers are the only easily accessible and reliable source I know of...

 

[YarisHybrid2016]

I know dealers are rubbish, but to use the wrong oil is unacceptable. The manual is VERY specific on which oil to use, and is even specific on alternatives if the preferred is not available.

When booking service, I always hammer the oil grade and ensure they understand which grade to use. I even tell them if they need to delay the service to get it, do so.

I'd service it myself if it wasn't for the "dealer stamp" in the book. 💩

[Primus1]

It would be interesting if someone had an engine fail and required a new one because the dealer had used the wrong oil, I wonder if the dealer would try to wriggle out of a warranty claim? even though it was their fault..

[anchorman]

Phone the dealer up and tell them you are going to buy 5 litres of 0W/8 and a filter and bring it back while they change it.  Tell them you are going to let Mazda GB know and that you want all your costs back.  You are running round with completely the wrong oil in and it needs to come out.  The engine relies on 0W for cold weather when it could starve parts of the engine of oil.  Ignore daft videos about thin oil, that’s because somebody is ignorant about fluid dynamics.  You can’t compress a fluid (within normal reason) and in an engine with very fine tolerances, you need low viscosity oil in cold weather to get it round fast.  Get it out and get the correct oil in.  

[Eddiefh]

On 4/16/2024 at 2:25 PM, Habu said:

Caution!!! Ramble alert!…

Some of you may remember my wife bought a 2023 Mazda 2 Hybrid (her previous 2 cars were Mazdas) as she wanted to retain a HUD and the seat material was nicer in the Mazda to the equivalent Yaris. Well, she’s just had it serviced by her Mazda dealer - possibly one of first one’s they’ve serviced.  Firstly, the dealer put in 10W30 oil.  I queried this as it should be 0W8 as stipulated by both the owners manual and Toyota Technical (I rang them to question it).  Mazda advised this is what they put in all their other models but I said not in a Toyota hybrid.  Mazda stuck to their guns and said it would be fine.  I did demand an email from their technical team at HQ to advise it was okay to use 10W30.  I received this email.  Secondly, the Mazda 2 Hybrid tyre pressures, and presumably the identical Yaris, are 29/32 psi (r/f) when cold.  I check these monthly with a high quality Draper pressure gauge and the car faithfully advises the same pressures. During the service the technician put 38 psi in the rears and 41 in the front!  I spoke (complained) to the service manager that the tyre pressures were already correct.  Seemingly, the technician wasn’t aware (really!!!) that the cold tyre pressures are stamped on the plate affixed to the car’s offside B-pillar and, instead, had looked them up on the Mazda service guides.  I said my 2.2 tonne SUV has 35 psi across all 4 tyres so how can a Yaris clone need 41 psi?  The service manager couldn’t answer that one.  I expect the technician would have, as a minimum, a proper rollicking.

So, moral of this ramble is next time we’ll buy a proper Yaris.

That oil can’t be right surly and I’m fairly sure it’s a mineral oil as I don’t think you can get that type as fully synthetic, I’m not as clued up as I possibly should be but I know enough to run my own parts business I have around 20 different types on sale and only 1 10w30 and I keep that for plant and when I run out off lawn mower oil 

[anchorman]

On 4/16/2024 at 6:32 PM, Mooly said:

Hmmm. 0W8 looks very very thin when you see this. Not a very scientific test but interesting non the less.

 

What’s your point?  Interesting?  It’s garbage.  

[anchorman]

2 minutes ago, Eddiefh said:

That oil can’t be right surly and I’m fairly sure it’s a mineral oil as I don’t think you can get that type as fully synthetic, I’m not as clued up as I possibly should be but I know enough to run my own parts business I have around 20 different types on sale and only 1 10w30 and I keep that for plant and when I run out off lawn mower oil 

Actually, fully synthetic oil is mineral oil, it all comes out of the ground.  The point at which it becomes semi or fully synthetic is down to the manufacturers opinion on the amount of additives they’ve added and there’s no standard for it so one manufacturer’s declaration of fully synthetic can be different than another.  Generally, you get what you pay for.  

[Mojo1010]

0W8 oil has been out since at least the 2nd half of 2020 when the MK4 Yaris came out. 

My bottle. 

[TonyHSD]

0w8 or 0w16 and at very bottom 0w20 , these are only oil viscosity types that you can use safely in your hybrid Toyota. Anything else is out of spec. 
Those 10w30 aren’t even so popular oils used in Europe, these are mostly USA and some Asian regions , perhaps difficult to find easily in shops either. Opie Oils have them but they aren’t suitable for your engine.
The problem is not only cold starts during cold weather, but any starts of the engine, since it’s a hybrid the engine starts and spins immediately at very high rpm so you need the right oil type and viscosity to have the required lubrication and protection. 

[Mooly]

2 hours ago, anchorman said:

 Ignore daft videos about thin oil, that’s because somebody is ignorant about fluid dynamics.  

I assume that was aimed at me... I did say its not very scientific at the outset.

2 hours ago, anchorman said:

What’s your point?  Interesting?  It’s garbage.

My point was that it is interesting to see just how 'thin' (sorry to use that word but it is the most appropriate) the 0W8 is when poured. 

It can be hard for many to visualise how thick and gooey an oil actually is and so to actually see it for real like that helps give some perspective to it.

[Eddiefh]

3 hours ago, anchorman said:

Actually, fully synthetic oil is mineral oil, it all comes out of the ground.  The point at which it becomes semi or fully synthetic is down to the manufacturers opinion on the amount of additives they’ve added and there’s no standard for it so one manufacturer’s declaration of fully synthetic can be different than another.  Generally, you get what you pay for.  

Point taken , but all I was saying is 10w30 isn’t correct for a modern hybrid car 

[Mojo1010]

17 minutes ago, Eddiefh said:

Point taken , but all I was saying is 10w30 isn’t correct for a modern hybrid car 

When I had the MK3 hybrid, even the chain national tyres were using a better grade 5w30. 

[YarisHybrid2016]

If you want to see how thin it is, just pull the dipstick!

0w8 has viscosity like water. It runs off the dipstick so easily, I actually had problems reading the oil level. I had to dip/clean/dip the dipstick several times before I got enough off the upper part of the dipstick to see where it actually was.

I'm still curious as to why so much oil was on the upper part of the dipstick though.

[bathtub tom]

6 hours ago, Mojo1010 said:

When I had the MK3 hybrid, even the chain national tyres were using a better grade 5w30. 

How is 5w-30 better than the recommended viscosity?

[Mojo1010]

6 minutes ago, bathtub tom said:

How is 5w-30 better than the recommended viscosity?

Referring to the mazda 10W30 OP service. 

[CPN]

Greater numbers don't make it "better" just different...

10W means it is thicker viscosity wise. Not what you want for a hybrid such as Toyota's...

[Mojo1010]

In Toyota hybrids case it's better Colin right?

Edit: *Was talking about the 10w which OP Mazda put in compared to 5w30 a chain like national tyres put in even on the MK3 Yaris. 😊

[CPN]

7 minutes ago, Mojo1010 said:

In Toyota hybrids case it's better Colin right? 😊

Errr... NO!! Why do you think that?

Think about it? What is different about an ICE in a Toyota Hybrid and a conventional ICE?

Answer: In the hybrid, the ICE is constantly stopping and re-starting as required by the ECU. Some of those starts may be cooler than others depending on how long the ICE has been idle at that time. When you take into account that the ICE is being started by a fast turning MG1, it is helpful for the resistance to be lower during the start-up process. Thinner oil = less resistance and faster throughput via the oil pump. i.e. 0wXX. QED.

PS. To put it another way, higher first number = thicker oil which is harder to move around the engine quickly!

[anchorman]

7 hours ago, Mooly said:

I assume that was aimed at me... I did say its not very scientific at the outset.

My point was that it is interesting to see just how 'thin' (sorry to use that word but it is the most appropriate) the 0W8 is when poured. 

It can be hard for many to visualise how thick and gooey an oil actually is and so to actually see it for real like that helps give some perspective to it.

Aye, fair enough but it’s very important to understand that thin oil isn’t a disadvantage as that chap seems to suggest, it’s absolutely necessary 👍

[Cyker]

7 hours ago, YarisHybrid2016 said:

If you want to see how thin it is, just pull the dipstick!

0w8 has viscosity like water. It runs off the dipstick so easily, I actually had problems reading the oil level. I had to dip/clean/dip the dipstick several times before I got enough off the upper part of the dipstick to see where it actually was.

I'm still curious as to why so much oil was on the upper part of the dipstick though.

It's because it's so runny it gets up the dipstick tube when you pull the dipstick, but although it's runny, it still clings to the metal surface and gets transferred back onto the upper parts of the dipstick.

Incidentally, that's one way to see if oil is still good - Good oil will cling to a surface and stick to it, forming a thin lubricating film, but when it's broken down it will run off that surface much more easily and the film it leaves behind will be much weaker and will rub off more easily instead of leaving a film.

 

1 hour ago, bathtub tom said:

How is 5w-30 better than the recommended viscosity?

He didn't say that, he said 5w30 is better than 10w30 - The essence is that while both are not ideal, 5w30 is 'less wrong' than 10w30.

 

 

At the end of the day, the oil HAS to be matched with the engine tolerances - You would NOT want to use 0w20 on an old engine where the tolerances are huge as it'd not have enough film strength for the parts and they'd flop about too much.

On the other hand, using 10w30 on these modern engines with their tiny tolerances will mean lots of metal-on-metal contact as the oil can't flow properly through the narrow gaps; ESPECIALLY on hybrids where the engine is constantly stopping and starting - That's where the most wear occurs in an engine, in that brief moment where the oil pressure has to be built up.

[Habu]

I’ve written (email) to Mazda UK about the poor service and I’ve also asked for the correct oil to be put in the car.  Dealer - who must be feeling the heat now - is saying it was actually 5W30 and not 10W30 but is adamant it’s the right oil for the Mazda2 Hybrid.  I’m saying it’s still out of spec. I’m just waiting for MMUK to intervene and get the oil changed.

Interestingly, over the last few days it’s been really cold and our average mpg has plummeted from low 60s to low 40’s.  Obviously it was colder over winter and I didn’t notice such a drop.  Would the wrong oil (thicker than recommended) make such a difference?

[CPN]

It's quite possible...

[Cyker]

I'd be surprised if it could drop it by that much, but it certainly wouldn't help!

Then again I suppose it'll be much thicker in cold temps than the proper oil.

To my knowledge, 10w-anything has been out of spec for almost every Toyota engine since the late 1990's - Everything has been 5w-something or less since then!