Non Starter...

[97Silverfrost]

Hi everyone, 

Yesterday I stopped for few moments, turned car off and then turned the key, there was absolutely nothing, no cranking, totally silent, the dash lights came on, nothing seemed to flash.

I checked oil, hard to tell exactly the reading, put some oil in.

RAC came, the car turned on ok after the hour wait, he reckoned alternator is probably the problem.

I checked my records and alternator was replaced almost a year ago, is there a way to check if it's on the way out or could it be after an 800 mile trip this past week maybe the oil which was full upon leaving got low and the reason the engine refused to turn over?

Last couple of years I'm topping oil every several weeks really, 2012 model, petrol Aygo.

Thanks guys, any advice would be appreciated as to wether I need to replace alternator again, obviously I'll check and top up if needed with oil.

Best regards Keith 

[flash22]

a seized alternator or a bad starter, as for oil it is either dropping it or burning it

what is the mileage?

no fault codes i take it?

what grade oil are you using?

pull the plugs, checking for oil down the holes, plugs will tell you a lot about the engine's health

[97Silverfrost]

Hiya Flash, many thanks for replying, if it wasn't for your help in the past, I probably wouldn't be in the road still.

Milage is just over 90,000, I used one of two brands of 0/20 Halfords stock in, depending what's in stock at the time, Halfords own make last couple of months Flash as that was all they had with the 0/20.

Mechanic didn't pull codes yesterday, I wouldn't know how to check those.

I've seen no oil drops under car on drive etc, removed oil cap and it was smoking a little.

I'll try to look down oil wells too, but if you reckon it's alternator/starter motor I will probably book it into Toyota so they can check codes and determine starter or alternator, as I was in Wales last Tuesday for funeral, the clutch went after 330 miles, had to get it replaced, but I think the clutch cable needs adjusting, I wouldn't care my local garage replaced the clutch end of January, so it's had two clutches in 3 months, this was second call out to RAC within a week 🤦

Thankyou Flash, your a ⭐ 

[flash22]

you may want to move over to 5w30 now its up in the miles and run in - tolerances open up with wear and tear, thin oil will pass the rings especially when cold and when hot underload at motorway speeds

you can get a dead spot on the comm of a starter, it's like hitting a 00 on a roulette table it may happen 1 in 500 times

[97Silverfrost]

You certainly know your stuff Flash, thankyou for your reply again, I will now switch oil to 5/30 👍

 

Can't say in 8 years the no turn over has happened before, which was and felt very unusual as I'm pretty deaf anyway, but total silence was bit weird, I'll book car in let Toyota check codes, oil wells and clutch, and take it from there.

Thankyou Flash, I'll keep you informed, kindest regards Keith 

[97Silverfrost]

I've checked oil and almost full by the looks of it Flash, booked car in with Toyota, 10 days time to carry out the checks you advised on above, so will let you know then the outcome.

Many thanks 🙋

[Vandals01]

Surprised that RAC did not carry out a Battery / Alternator test.

A Battery / Alternator tester can be found on Amazon for £45.99

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Topdon-100-2000-Automotive-Alternator-Motorcycle/dp/B08GPD1QV5/

It tells you the status of the Battery i.e: Cranking power / Charge level and whether the battery is good or bad.

Then an added function is that it tells you the alternator voltage, ripple level and output underload.

 

If the power source is ruled out, then you'll need to dive further e.g:  Starter and possibility into the electronic side.  To the extreme, a locked up engine (but since the car restarted, we can rule this out.).

 

Start with testing the battery test first, since that's usually the main reason.  If the battery is bad, then investigate is it because of its age or is it not getting enough juice from the Alternator.

[97Silverfrost]

Hi Vandals01,

He turned the key, popped the bonnet, checked Battery connections and said he thought it would be starter motor probably, it was Bank Holiday, I had to phone twice within an hour as my passenger was disabled and they hadn't turned up after the promise of under 30 minutes, it got bumped three hours estimated time, as it usually does.

Thankyou for the link, seems a handy thing to have, if I can figure it out to read properly.

 

I'll check Battery, and let you know, really appreciate you taking the time to reply, my apologies for late reply, kindest regards Keith 

 

[97Silverfrost]

Ordered the tester Vandals01, I had a voltage metre before but couldn't understand it, this looks much easier and easy to read, definitely a driving necessity, it's coming tomorrow so will try it out and report back, I'm chuffed with that, thanks again 🙋

[97Silverfrost]

I tried the Battery tester this morning Vandals01, instructions didn't say wether to remove the Battery leads? Which I did anyway, connected it up, I left the setting of type of Battery as 'Regular Floode d' (rest were AGM flat plate, AGM spiral, Gel or EFB).

 

My battery had a sticker just hanging on with:-

Fullman 12V Lo 35Ah 300A EN

 

Set the tester to 300A, and the photo shows the results.

 

The crank test says the engine must be on, so will run the engine and connect the charger to the terminal if possible as there's not for them to latch on and get back to you on my progress.

 

Hopefully I've done the battery test correct so far?

 

Best regards Keith 

[flash22]

You will get another year out of the Battery

looking like it's going to be the starter

[97Silverfrost]

Thankyou Flash 😉👍

[dads Taxi x3]

Make sure the leads are tight on the Battery terminals as I had a prob starting my car and it was the Battery.cable came loose all had to to 10mm spanner and tighten the nut an away we went . 

Look at the altanator and see if it looks fat. puffed up . Then ger a spanner fits the nut  on the altanator  see if the wheel turns . 

As our aygo  did just that  no noise

The altanator had got fat  all I can explaine it and would not turn it even cracked the casing on the altanator  just expanded tight and split the walls . Cost £120 for new one as the £45 would not fit as it has AC .. 

[Crickleymal]

There can be a few reasons the car won't turn over. I had one car where the cable to the starter motor had cracked internally just before the solenoid. That was a swine to diagnose as it was invisible 

[97Silverfrost]

On 5/11/2024 at 10:21 PM, dads Taxi x3 said:

Make sure the leads are tight on the battery terminals as I had a prob starting my car and it was the battery.cable came loose all had to to 10mm spanner and tighten the nut an away we went . 

Look at the altanator and see if it looks fat. puffed up . Then ger a spanner fits the nut  on the altanator  see if the wheel turns . 

As our aygo  did just that  no noise

The altanator had got fat  all I can explaine it and would not turn it even cracked the casing on the altanator  just expanded tight and split the walls . Cost £120 for new one as the £45 would not fit as it has AC .. 

Thanks dad's taxi, yeah the terminals were tight, the positive one a little fiddly to access the nut, but ok.

I'll check alternator, maybe photograph later, I'm sure that was replaced almost a few days to a year ago.

Apologies for late reply, looking after sick relative, so real busy, car is working ok so far, as Flash said earlier though, it might until alternator or starter motor just fails.

Appreciate your reply, best regards Keith 

[97Silverfrost]

On 5/12/2024 at 12:37 PM, Crickleymal said:

There can be a few reasons the car won't turn over. I had one car where the cable to the starter motor had cracked internally just before the solenoid. That was a swine to diagnose as it was invisible 

Hey Crickleymal, appreciate you taking the time to reply with hidden fault that could be costly and possibly never found, I'll bear this in mind also in the coming weeks investigation,

 

best regards Keith