LPG conversion: is it worth it?

[Vins213]

Hi there, I have a my17 Yaris Hybrid with 104k km and here in Italy we have a promotion for installing a LPG system.

I'm about 23-25k km per year, the difference will be about 2000€ per year for gasoline VS about 900 for GPL, that turns into about 1300€ with the extra maintanance (filters) and gasoline contribution

Is there anyone who has converted a Yaris Hybrid with the 1.5 4cil to LPG system?

[Mojo1010]

It's unlikely anyone in the UK have converted the Yaris to LPG. €700 saving a year, you can do the maths yourself, what is cost to convert, how long to recoup the cost etc. 

[Vins213]

3 hours ago, Mojo1010 said:

It's unlikely anyone in the UK have converted the Yaris to LPG. €700 saving a year, you can do the maths yourself, what is cost to convert, how long to recoup the cost etc. 

yup I've already done all the maths, but there is an unknown variable: the valves

if everything goes well, in 5 years I will saved about 1500€ in my pocket...if everything goes wrong....well I don't know LOL

the car will remain with me until it dies (hope so, I don't wanna die before the car 😁)

[MikeSh]

26 minutes ago, Vins213 said:

if everything goes well, in 5 years I will saved about 1500€ in my pocket...if everything goes wrong....well I don't know LOL

Backtracking the numbers you've given it sounds like the conversion is about 5,000. 5,000 invested now should get you about 200/year in interest (at 4%). So your best case is being 100 a year better off.

For all that trouble and risk I wouldn't bother, especially with a car that's already 7 years old.

[Vins213]

4 minutes ago, MikeSh said:

Backtracking the numbers you've given it sounds like the conversion is about 5,000. 5,000 invested now should get you about 200/year in interest (at 4%). So your best case is being 100 a year better off.

For all that trouble and risk I wouldn't bother, especially with a car that's already 7 years old.

gasoline: 1.92€/l
LPG: 0.70€/l

conversion: 800€

25.000km per year, now 23 km/l gasoline - probably 17 km/l LPG consumption

gasoline contribution per year + extra maintenance: 600€

1st year: -337€

2nd year: 125€

3rd year: 560€

4th year: 1050€

5th year: 1514€

[flash22]

you can not go LPG on a hybrid easily as it gets very complex as it is not just 1 ECU you are dealing with

also, be aware Autogas and lpg is getting harder to find 2 of the major suppliers in the UK and EU have closed

 

60 Mpg is not enough (4.7L/100km or 21.2 KM/l) ?? not sure if you realise you still need petrol it's not a replacement

[Mjolinor]

I would not bother. You will also have to add an increase in insurance premium probably. I think the loss of power could really affect the hybrid system.

I have done dozens of LPG conversions since the first one in about 1975, the last one being about 15 years ago on a Mercedes C class but I would not even contemplate a conversion on a hybrid, just too complicated. If they work they are really good but if they have problems they can be a real dog to sort out

 

[Roy124]

LPG conversion was common in India when I visited 25 years ago.  The systems I saw were very much at the DIY end of the market with a tank jury-rigged in the boot.

@flash22 says you also need petrol though the Indian system was dual fuel with a toggle switch on the dash.

 

[hind]

2 hours ago, Vins213 said:

Is there anyone who has converted a Yaris Hybrid

It is doable, but requires skilled mechanic and premium LPG installation (for example, BRC is not recommended). We have a lot of hybrids converted to LPG in Poland, mostly on old Prius but they appear on newer Yaris hybrid as well.

2 hours ago, Vins213 said:

we have a promotion for installing a LPG system

Any specific? Is it national promotion or some workshop offers discounts? 

[Vins213]

2 hours ago, flash22 said:

you can not go LPG on a hybrid easily as it gets very complex as it is not just 1 ECU you are dealing with

also, be aware Autogas and lpg is getting harder to find 2 of the major suppliers in the UK and EU have closed

60 Mpg is not enough (4.7L/100km or 21.2 KM/l) ?? not sure if you realise you still need petrol it's not a replacement

here in Italy we have 3 official LPG installer on hybrid vehicle, and we have 4000 LPG stations (300 on highways)
the petrol contribution is about 85-100km/l, and the switch between petrol and LPG is automatically after 40°C engine temperature (and you have a manual switch also). The petrol contribution is set from 2300-2500rpm with micro injections, to prevent valve problems

there are a LOT of prius/corolla 1.8 in Italy with the LPG, awesome engine, but poor 1.5: https://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/49-Toyota/1287-Yaris_Hybrid.html?fueltype=3&powerunit=2

2 hours ago, Mjolinor said:

I would not bother. You will also have to add an increase in insurance premium probably. I think the loss of power could really affect the hybrid system.

I have done dozens of LPG conversions since the first one in about 1975, the last one being about 15 years ago on a Mercedes C class but I would not even contemplate a conversion on a hybrid, just too complicated. If they work they are really good but if they have problems they can be a real dog to sort out

it works, and it works really well expecially on the 1.8/2.0 engine...the newer LPG system does not affect power or hybrid system, read up there ^

the insurance amount is irrilevant

1 hour ago, Roy124 said:

LPG conversion was common in India when I visited 25 years ago.  The systems I saw were very much at the DIY end of the market with a tank jury-rigged in the boot.

@flash22 says you also need petrol though the Indian system was dual fuel with a toggle switch on the dash.

you need a specialist for the installation with an official license

1 hour ago, hind said:

It is doable, but requires skilled mechanic and premium LPG installation (for example, BRC is not recommended). We have a lot of hybrids converted to LPG in Poland, mostly on old Prius but they appear on newer Yaris hybrid as well.

Any specific? Is it national promotion or some workshop offers discounts? 

here we have Landi Renzo, BRC and Romano Autogas, I'm considering Landi Renzo system...is a national promotion for 400€, so 1200-400= 800€ for the conversion

[flash22]

just had a look where I am we have 6 LPG stations in a 25-40 mile radius nearest one to me is 10 miles away, price wise 0.95-1.09 for lpg, 95 ron petrol is 1.46

uk wide we have less than 500 lpg stations and not all do autogas

 

I see in Italy its LPG is widely produced and is subsidised

[TonyHSD]

I have seen myself a few Toyota Prius gen 3 lpg converted but me personally think it’s not a good idea. I had many miles on a lpg converted cars before and I remember not the greatest experience. Highly recommended not to do it. If you want a trouble free car experience just stay stock as much as you can. 

[Vins213]

13 minutes ago, flash22 said:

I see in Italy its LPG is widely produced and is subsidised

yup! and we have a crazy 1.90€/l for petrol and 0.70€/l for LPG, no autogas for security but in a 40miles radius we can have at least 50 LPG stations

 

15 minutes ago, TonyHSD said:

I have seen myself a few Toyota Prius gen 3 lpg converted but me personally think it’s not a good idea. I had many miles on a lpg converted cars before and I remember not the greatest experience. Highly recommended not to do it. If you want a trouble free car experience just stay stock as much as you can. 

before this Yaris, I had a Clio with a native LPG system and it was HORRIBLE, but it was a bad original system with the first 3 year of warranty with valve and injectors problems...every Clio with original LPG system was bad

 

and I have a friend with an old 2010 honda CRV with 400k km with LPG aftermarket and not a single problem...a lot of taxi driver in Italy has toyota hybrid with LPG installed aftermarket (auris, corolla, rav4, prius), and they drive with 3-4€/100km instead 8-9€/100km

[hind]

The problem with lpg is that you need to find a real expert to do the tuning. Most of them just setup auto tune and off you go. There was a case where installers drilled a head in 1.5 hybrid to put the injector for the BRC installation without owner consent. Results? The car was vibrating randomly and the mechanics blamed everything else. The owner eventually landed in the shop 350 km away but got the car serviced as it should be. I don't know which installation they put but they got rid of BRC. It was smooth from there on. 

[Vins213]

7 minutes ago, hind said:

The problem with lpg is that you need to find a real expert to do the tuning. Most of them just setup auto tune and off you go. There was a case where installers drilled a head in 1.5 hybrid to put the injector for the BRC installation without owner consent. Results? The car was vibrating randomly and the mechanics blamed everything else. The owner eventually landed in the shop 350 km away but got the car serviced as it should be. I don't know which installation they put but they got rid of BRC. It was smooth from there on. 

Landi and Romano have a license for installing LPG system on hybrid cars, with a fine tuning and tests

 

this is an important point: the installer must be an expert one with the LPG system, not a generic mech

[hind]

So go for it 🙂 Landi Renzo I heard is okayish. Never heard of Romano but I didn't really dig into this topic 🙂 Just check the reviews of the selected shop beforehand

[Hadrian1]

I don't remember the last time I saw a garage selling LPG.

[Parts-King]

It's a horrible fuel, runs OK on older models, I would never install it on a modern vehicle, it causes too many problems.

[Vins213]

3 minutes ago, Hadrian1 said:

I don't remember the last time I saw a garage selling LPG.

in Italy?

 

1 minute ago, Parts-King said:

It's a horrible fuel, runs OK on older models, I would never install it on a modern vehicle, it causes too many problems.

proof it, check how many hybrid vehicle with LPG are on spritmonitor with huge miles...the 1.8 is a tank, but poor proof for the 1.5

[Parts-King]

I have seen it on many a taxi (usually) with many running problems. I have seen two stripped down after poor running, valves burnt out and coked up, I would not entertain it, sorry 

[hind]

1 hour ago, Parts-King said:

valves burnt out

IIRC that's what usually happens when you have too lean mixture setup = sign of poor tuning or negligence of control of valve clearances. That's the main problem with this stuff. Most people who install it in their cars, do it because they want to ride cheap. So they pick the cheapest system and cheapest garage. It's installed by the guys who don't care if the engine dies in the next 2 or 3 years as this won't be their problem and tuning it lean lowers the consumption even further. Everyone is happy until something happens and then everybody blames LPG. It works if it's done properly and unfortunately rarely is. 

[exim]

I heard on this forum sometime back about a Yaris Hybrid that was converted that exploded.

[Vins213]

7 minutes ago, hind said:

It works if it's done properly and unfortunately rarely is. 

true

[flash22]

With the FXE engine, it does use the Atkinson cycle so the exhaust stays open longer on the compression stroke, which is both good and bad, bad because you don't have the same lubrication from the fuel with LPG

[Cyker]

It might be better in Italy, but in the UK LPG is virtually dead so it's hard to recommend!

Generally the hybrids are already so fuel efficient that you gain almost nothing with LPG conversion, even if the fuel is cheaper (Here there is almost no tax on it so it's almost half the cost of petrol, but mpg for LPG is significantly worse than petrol so the savings are a lot less than a half).

I hear the petrol quality in Italy is not great so maybe LPG would be worth doing, esp. if you actually have a lot of specialists who know what they are doing rather than the mostly-trial-and-error types we seem to have here  

Personally I wouldn't, esp. as nobody has cracked the Toyota ECU (AFAIK!) so they'd need to use a piggy back ECU to alter the injection to adjust the fuelling amounts for LPG, and I'm not confident the long term reliability wouldn't be affected...