Advice on Ancient Corolla

[stupidlyromantic]

Hi

I've just joined the club to get advice from folk who I assume are as potty about their Toyotas as I am?  So might understand the query ...

I have a Corolla VVT-I 1.4L manual, registered in 2000, mine for the last 17 years.  I love this car!  No mod-cons, wind-up windows, central locking that isn't remote, radio no longer works ... We have travelled over 250,000 miles together to all parts of the UK and she is as ancient and creaky as me 😉 But totally reliable until ...

Since September things have been going wrong and various garages have meddled with air/fuel sensors, new batteries and all sorts to sort out the problem of losing power going up hill, dodgy starting and occasional 'bunny hopping' on the motorway.  I was advised to get her de-coked - which I did - and most recently she had a new started motor fitted (was about to board a ferry from Skye to Harris ....!!!).  I've now been told that the core of the problem is the unit that controls everything.  Sorry - this isn't helpful but I've forgotten the name the mechanic told me but it's got a three-letter acronym and when I suggested to his that "basically my car needs a brain transplant", he laughed but said that was exactly that.

So - I've been slowly saying good-bye and looking for a new corolla but the new ones just aren't the same (and the boot space is much smaller!).  I am wondering whether or not this is actually the end?  The Man said that

• A replacement - if it could be found - would cost thousands (well - a 4-figure sum anyhow)
• Would then need fitting AND programming
• The car wasn't worth it

Question is - is this true?  (Not the bit about the value - I'm aware that to the outside eye she's worth borderline nothing - but replacement value ..... )  Same guy said I should E-Bay it for spares / parts, saying it had throttle unit issues so I couldn't be 'done' for selling a pup.  He also said that it would probably be bought for export ... So if it's good for export ...

Thoughts / advice / information gratefully received.

 

 

[Cyker]

Well most of the people on the forum are certainly potty if nothing else  

If they mean the ECU, I'd be very surprised, as they don't usually go wrong - Cars of that era will usually rust to death well before the ECU gets any problems unless the car's not driven much and spends most of its time parked somewhere damp.

Really you need to find someone who is experienced at diagnostics, preferably on Toyotas, to try and figure out what the issue is; Symptoms like those can be caused by all sorts of things, like the already mentioned Battery needs replacing or sensors need cleaning/replacing, but could also be a rodent has been nibbling at part of the wiring loom, or maybe some hoses have a leak or something.

 

The Mk9 Corolla was a very popular car so I'd imagine you could just get another 2nd hand one without too much trouble or outlay... Would probably be cheaper than repairing your one given labour costs these days!!

[Mooly]

53 minutes ago, Cyker said:

If they mean the ECU, I'd be very surprised, as they don't usually go wrong -

I would second that... and to use the language I'm used to with consumer electronics... 'its never the big chip'.

I've still got the old 1.4L Corolla 4dr from 2003 that was my dads and its just so useful as an all weather car and you don't worry over where you have to park it. Far quicker and responsive than you might ever imagine.

As to yours, well 250k is getting right up there, you have to be realistic on that and so just thinking aloud I would think a compression check might be in order at that stellar mileage... perhaps coil packs (that generate the high voltage for the spark plugs) playing up possibly or the high voltage insulation breaking down could be another possibility? I assume its had plugs for this issue as a first line of attack?

Could be many things though as @Cyker suggests and you don't want to be paying a lot out and not getting a good result. 

[stupidlyromantic]

Hello @Cyker and @Mooly

Thanks for the input.

I've been looking for a similar model ... can't find one though ... hence the post to see if there's hope.

So!  Possibly not the 'big chip' ... and I kinda live by the mantra that Toyotas never die ...  Re. mileage - the 250K was what she and I have done together; she had 40K on the clock when I bought here so it's actually 293,000 ... 😭

I have a dear friend (Ford owner ... ) who had an electrics problem that turned out to be the wiring degenerating, so she suggested that it could be a wire from the ECU rather than the unit itself.

Next question; how do I find a Toyota expert who's good at diagnostics?  I'm sure the local Toyota garage will only have children trained on the latest computer-run things ... Or am I being mean? @Mooly; you're Lancashire too - any thoughts?

[Mooly]

So nearer 300k. That is truly Starship mileage for any car.

1 hour ago, stupidlyromantic said:

I have a dear friend (Ford owner ... ) who had an electrics problem that turned out to be the wiring degenerating, so she suggested that it could be a wire from the ECU rather than the unit itself.

I've a feeling that would be quite a long way down the list of suspects and you would start seeing the 'Check Engine' light come on in many cases. 

A good independent garage rather than a Toyota garage would probably be a better bet but you are still going to be paying out for time spent looking for issues whether or not you had them rectified.

Given the mileage I also wonder whether valve wear could be a factor.

[oldcodger]

@stupidlyromantic

It sounds a familiiar tale, in that many garages do not seem to be able to diagnose the problem, rather just going on general instincts, so might be worth paying a Toyota dealer for a proper test, they should be able to tell you the cost before hand, usually its just a matter of labour time.

As said, the ECU could be the problem , but there are specialists who can test them out and possibly repair them.

Wonder how much you have spent on this round of works,   the Decoke also makes us ask who did what and at what cost, was it a strip down or a chemical clean ?

The problem with our  pre 2007 Corollas is that some spares are becoming obselete and very hard to find, if at all, eg brake backplates.

When you say the newer Corolla has smaller boots, do you mean the 2019 onwards ones.

Have you looked at the 2007 -2019  Auris, which is effectively Uk version of the Corolla,  its parts should be more available.

[Cyker]

I don't know what your dealer is like, but I would never take any car to my dealer for diagnostics ever again - They've failed to correctly diagnose every single issue I've gone to them with, instead stopping at the first thing and rather than test to see if that was the actual cause, just charge me for a new part which in every case then turned out to make no difference.

They've been generally impeccable for regular servicing - Actually changing all the filters and using the correct oil, which I was surprised that some members dealers didn't even do that right, but I've learned not to let them near anything beyond that. Every time I give them a chance to do something else they screw it up - A few services ago I let them do a wheel alignment and they didn't even get that right!

I'm sure there are dealers out there who have experienced mechanics who can diagnose faults properly, but my local dealers only seem to know how to use the Parts Cannon method of diagnostics. To be fair, a big part of the problem is the high turnover of that place; I hardly know anyone in there because they get through staff so quickly...!

[stupidlyromantic]

Morning each - and again, thank you all for your comments.

@oldcodger.  Garage in Thornton did a chemical clean - cost £110.  Haven't got all the receipts to hand but a rough estimate of costs to date might be iro £900?  This includes parts, some of which I put down to wear n tear, which any car would need.  Constantly on the logic of what's a reasonable cost v getting silly so car needs to go 😪  The Corollas I've looked at are from 2004 on ... It seems to be the different body shape.  My Corolla has a sloping back end so there's that additional bit of length that the newer, boxy ones don't have.  I have looked at the Auris so will take another look, given your advice that they're basically a corolla ...

@Mooly.  I've never taken her to a Toyota garage and have a generally suspicion of them.  They can't help it - they're part of a huge business bureacracy run by accountants who don't understand 'the business', only 'the numbers'.  Don't get me wrong; accountants are wonderful and necessary people - they just should never be actually in charge!  Different priorities ...

My usual guy loves Japanese cars and has been taking care of mine since I got her.  I went to the latest guy for a 'second opinion'; he has a great rep and is only 3 mins walk from my house - rather than a 20 minute bus ride with 10 mins walk either side.  Both independents, both fabulous - so I trust their judgement at least / more than another mechanic that I've never met ...  If it's a valve then that's also a big expensive job isn't it?  Especially for an old lady.

This is all starting to feel a bit RIP ...  😭😭😭

[Mooly]

1 hour ago, stupidlyromantic said:

Haven't got all the receipts to hand but a rough estimate of costs to date might be iro £900?  This includes parts, some of which I put down to wear n tear, which any car would need. 

Those costs realistically will be more than the car is worth (not what its worth to you but what might get in a sale... if it were running OK)

I don't think I would start throwing large amounts of money at this but if the faults are easily reproducible on a test drive then getting another opinion might be worthwhile if only so you know. Any engine work that involves dismantling is going to be very costly and so its just not viable at this age and mileage imo.

 

1 hour ago, stupidlyromantic said:

The Corollas I've looked at are from 2004 on ... It seems to be the different body shape.  My Corolla has a sloping back end so there's that additional bit of length that the newer, boxy ones don't have. 

I think they called them 'Fastbacks' and yes, I prefer that shape, in fact the one before that from the 90's was even better imo. Why is there nothing like this available today.

 

[Bobisinahurrytobuycatfood]

22 hours ago, stupidlyromantic said:

Hi

I've just joined the club to get advice from folk who I assume are as potty about their Toyotas as I am?  So might understand the query ...

I have a Corolla VVT-I 1.4L manual, registered in 2000, mine for the last 17 years.  I love this car!  No mod-cons, wind-up windows, central locking that isn't remote, radio no longer works ... We have travelled over 250,000 miles together to all parts of the UK and she is as ancient and creaky as me 😉 But totally reliable until ...

Since September things have been going wrong and various garages have meddled with air/fuel sensors, new batteries and all sorts to sort out the problem of losing power going up hill, dodgy starting and occasional 'bunny hopping' on the motorway.  I was advised to get her de-coked - which I did - and most recently she had a new started motor fitted (was about to board a ferry from Skye to Harris ....!!!).  I've now been told that the core of the problem is the unit that controls everything.  Sorry - this isn't helpful but I've forgotten the name the mechanic told me but it's got a three-letter acronym and when I suggested to his that "basically my car needs a brain transplant", he laughed but said that was exactly that.

So - I've been slowly saying good-bye and looking for a new corolla but the new ones just aren't the same (and the boot space is much smaller!).  I am wondering whether or not this is actually the end?  The Man said that

• A replacement - if it could be found - would cost thousands (well - a 4-figure sum anyhow)
• Would then need fitting AND programming
• The car wasn't worth it

Question is - is this true?  (Not the bit about the value - I'm aware that to the outside eye she's worth borderline nothing - but replacement value ..... )  Same guy said I should E-Bay it for spares / parts, saying it had throttle unit issues so I couldn't be 'done' for selling a pup.  He also said that it would probably be bought for export ... So if it's good for export ...

Thoughts / advice / information gratefully received.

 

 

Start simple. Could be just needs some sandpaper taken to some ground wires/ screws 

[Cyker]

Can you show us a picture of it? I'm curious now as the only sloping back ones I've seen in this country were Mk8's with the slightly bug-eyed headlights, and they didn't make those as late as 2004 to my knowledge...!

[1.33]

11 hours ago, Mooly said:

I think they called them 'Fastbacks' and yes, I prefer that shape, in fact the one before that from the 90's was even better imo. Why is there nothing like this available today.

IIRC they were called Liftbacks. They were sold alongside the hatchbacks during the 80s/90s. The AE92 liftback is the best looking one IMO.

[Cyker]

Mmmm, swoopy!  

11 hours ago, Mooly said:

Why is there nothing like this available today.

GT/GR86...?   

[Mooly]

9 hours ago, Cyker said:

Can you show us a picture of it? I'm curious now as the only sloping back ones I've seen in this country were Mk8's with the slightly bug-eyed headlights, and they didn't make those as late as 2004 to my knowledge...!

That is the one I imagine the op has, the bug eyed one with slightly more rounded lines than the one I posted a piccy of. Year 2000 was mentioned in the first post so that would fit. The 'boxy' one was around in early 2002 (Year of my TSport) so probably 2001 when the model change happened. 

7 hours ago, Cyker said:

Mmmm, swoopy!  

GT/GR86...?   

Well....... 😎

 

[Mooly]

8 hours ago, 1.33 said:

IIRC they were called Liftbacks.

That rings a bell now you mention it.

[TonyHSD]

Hi, 

If you are taking care of the car yourself have you got a diagnostic tool to scan for codes? If you don’t have one that can read most of the data you can buy more sophisticated obd 2 adapter and with suitable app on your phone get codes and life data. Also you can do a Toyota official scan tool on old windows laptop and these will help you read the codes yourself. A good base from where to start your faults finding. 

Now there is a guy from abroad who is by far the best diagnostic mechanic I ever met. He works independent has a YouTube channel called diagnosedan. 
Here a video exactly how he works, how he thinks and what tools he use to find the real reason why and what is wrong. You can watch his video to learn about his work, you can ask him a questions too via email and he can eventually help you with idea. This man is a real treasure to the car repair industry. Another’s one from USA is the car care nut , these two are by far more helpful than any other car mechanics or dealerships. 

 

[flash22]

Late to the party, I know

My first thought would be the fuel pump and or clogged filter sock that would explain the hard cold start (not holding pressure), going uphill, fuel moving, and debris moving = fuel starvation same for motorway speeds it cant supply enough fuel

[Gerg]

Yes, nice one Flash!

I think the original poster has one of these, if there was still any doubt -

Although this actual one (not my picture) might have the different (earlier) headlamp arrangement.

We have the same car with the same engine (but 2001 model) as the OP, bought new, but it has done only 150,000 miles. The boot is indeed a very decent size!

FWIW, on ours two of the original (Bosch) ignition coils have failed. And two weeks ago the (Boech) alternator failed (voltage regulator suspected) causing it's first 'proper' breakdown.

The engine ECU lives under the car radio, on top of the transmission tunnel, if anyone's interested.

We have never had any of the symptoms the OP is reporting.

Although about 9 years ago, the throttle body idle air control valve started failing, but only when the engine was cold, that just made the car stall-prone for a couple of minutes or so when first setting out. 

[stupidlyromantic]

OMG!  So much fabulous advice ... to a total dunce sadly!  I am feeling somewhat fraudulent even being on this site amongst so many folk who actually know what they're on about 😄  I am one of those that has great 'conceptual' understanding of all sorts of things; cars, computers, life in general ....  But borderline zero actual useful ability at any of it - so sadly the sandpaper / doing my own diagnostics  / other is throwing the traditional pearls before the proverbial.  I'd  probably be spending a fortune on tools as well ... a socket set and some screwdrivers are about my limit!

My instinct had always been that it was fuel-related but now the ECU has been thrown into the mix .. I could spend hours of time / lots of money ... (I hear what you're saying @Mooly - it's always been a consideration.  I've always approached it from the 'what-I'd-have-to-pay for a 'new' one' versus 'what-it-costs-to-fix', rather than what I could get if I sold her ...).  And given my total lack of ability and my desperate need to actually have a car that 'goes', I strongly suspect a 'new' one is the way forward ... although I could be tempted NOT to let go of her just yet ... the insurance isn't due for a couple of months yet ... 😉  (Get Lady Rothschild and her 2 cars ... 🤣)

@Gerg. 'Throttle body' is a name that rings distant bells.  I have a feeling this was one of the first things that got replaced last Sept/Oct when the issues began ...

Have done a quick trawl of paperwork and these are all the parts that have been replaced since last September:

Exhaust cat; lambda sensor; inlet manifold gasket; Battery, throttle body; throttle pot sensor; starter motor; plus something that was done as a 'foreigner' so I didn't get an invoice but was described as the sensor that measures air temperature ...

She had a new alternator in March last year and had the Terraclean in November.  Oh - and the new starter motor on Skye 2 weeks ago ...

Just dashed outside to take a couple of pics to post so that you can see what I've got.

[stupidlyromantic]

ps.  Just re-reading this entire thread and had to giggle at @Cyker's comment re. not being driven much and/or sitting about doing nothing.  I rarely drive locally unless I'm taking garden stuff to the tip and doing the monthly 'big shop' at the same time.  My shortest drive is usually 82 miles to the office ... Outer Hebrides is my current longest at approx 450 miles excluding the ferry of course 😄

[Cyker]

Oh that's a lovely one - Don't seen one in that colour very often!

It sounds like you've changed almost everything except the actual engine  

[Mooly]

I think that's the colour I always call 'Cadburys Purple' like the foil on chocolate.

I'm assuming all that work done has been for this very specific issue? I know its not easy and particularly if the issue may not show all the time. The fuel filter @flash22 wonders over is something I hadn't thought of but how can you 'prove' it.

[flash22]

wow, It's had a world of parts thrown at it, I would be looking at the fuel pump, how low do you let the tank drop to before refilling

how can I prove it, I can't - given the age and symptoms and what's been done - codes are a symptom not a cause

[Gerg]

In the unlikely event that you do need an ECU, I do have one in the garage.

Its used, but came off a good working car - ours!

It was replaced under warranty, in 2003, when I pointed out to the main dealer that our engine was just lightly 'pinking' under certain specific conditions.  The dealer said it was nothing to worry about, raised it with Toyota GB, who came back with an upgraded ECU code,  ('remap').

Given the age/generation of this car, this meant a new ECU. Overkill, but there you go...

Toyota never asked the dealer for the old one back, which they often do, so I politely asked the garage if I could have it off them. Hoarder?!, me?!

But! There is some configuring to get it to function, it isn't 'plug and play', I know, I tried plugging it in it myself about 18 years ago, just out of curiosity. If nothing else, the keys will need programming for the immobiliser function.

But I can't believe that is the fault, as Mooly points out.

Just a completely random thought here, given the cars mileage etc, the engine earth connection (direct from the 12v battery), is rather vulnerable to road muck, sitting low on the front of the gearbox, has it been removed and cleaned? It's a very quick job, literally five minutes, it's probably been off and on for something else, but just thought I'd mention it. No Toyota knowledge required for that one!

Taking Flash22's idea further, removing the fuel pick up/petrol guage sender unit, to clean it and see what's sloshing around in the tank, should be quite quick and easy, as long as the tank's not very full, as it must live under the rear seat squab, no? (I've not checked on this car!).

[stupidlyromantic]

Answers in order:

@Mooly: All of the work has been chasing the same set of issues but I do occasionally wonder if it's actually been a series of different things.  The intake manifold was done, together with a new exhaust, as a result of issues that got thrown up after the Terraclean and was all in the name of getting through the MOT - which she failed first time on emissions but sailed through on the re-test after the work.  Was working brilliantly for a couple of weeks - and then it all started again!

@Flash22: Given most of my journeys are quite long, I tend to run the tank low.  Average fill-up is between 35-38 litres so I have wondered about dirt in the system and whether it's possible to clean out the various fuel pipes, or even 'spring clean' the tank itself.  After all these years and miles there must be sludge at the bottom ....

@Gerg: No-one has mentioned cleaning the earth connection ... I'll check that out 😀 

Right at the start of this thread @Cyker said that most of the people on this forum were potty 🤣  But I do feel like I've found 'soulmates' - ever if I am an imposter (no proper car tech knowledge ...).  Yes she is lovely and yes it is partly the colour, but also because we've been together for so long and there's a lot of history.  And now there are potential solutions AND perhaps the big spare part that's needed ...  @Gerg: Are you nearby or in the South of France?  

Having just pretty much decided I needed to replace the car, I'm now back to replacing the parts and keeping her going ... AAARRRGGGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!  😉

@Cyker: A while ago I did actually toy with the idea of just replacing the entire engine 🤣

Just as a wild matter of interest ... if she was yours, would you fix or ditch?  On a scale of 1-10 (one being ditch ...)  and given the polarised issues of me loving my car to bits (stupidlyromantic) AND needing a car that works (the practical project manager that I am in 'real' life ...) - oh - and not actually being a millionaire ...