Driverless Cars.

[FROSTYBALLS]

On 5/23/2024 at 8:45 AM, Bper said:

The distinction between private hiring and leasing does seem to be mostly semantic, as both involve using a car without owning it.

Not forgetting that cars on hire purchase and PCP aren't owned by the user until either the loan is paid off (hp), or the user decides to purchase the car at the end of the PCP.

Different with personal loans which aren't usually tied to the car.

[Bper]

37 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Not forgetting that cars on hire purchase and PCP aren't owned by the user until either the loan is paid off (hp), or the user decides to purchase the car at the end of the PCP.

Different with personal loans which aren't usually tied to the car.

You're right about car ownership with loans. For driverless cars, the ownership model is uncertain. We might not even own them traditionally! It could be more like subscribing to a service with on demand access to self driving cars. The upside is, you wouldn't have to worry about parking, traffic, or even getting a driver's license!"

[FROSTYBALLS]

Although the cars would still have to have a registered keeper who would ultimately be responsible.

[Mjolinor]

1 minute ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Although the cars would still have to have a registered keeper who would ultimately be responsible.

By the time they arrive our only worries would be the thought police and if there is enough soylent green to go round.

[Bper]

9 minutes ago, FROSTYBALLS said:

Although the cars would still have to have a registered keeper who would ultimately be responsible.

You're right, a registered keeper is essential. I wonder how the concept of ownership might change beyond the keeper. Maybe traditional car ownership won't even exist for most people. If it does become predominantly a hail and ride service the insurance will be their responsibility.How much it would cost to hire is another issue.

[Bper]

13 minutes ago, Mjolinor said:

By the time they arrive our only worries would be the thought police and if there is enough soylent green to go round.

Hi John, a dystopian future, it feels like we are already living in one already.😂

[Primus1]

The solution is simple, have a national program of cutting grooves in our roads and lining them with metal strips, on the bottom of each car a boss could be fitted with a couple of braided metal strips attached to said boss, some kind of trigger system could be used to apply power and radar would keep a safe distance , we could call it scal…er, well I’m not sure , someone will think of a snappy title…

[Bper]

1 minute ago, Primus1 said:

The solution is simple, have a national program of cutting grooves in our roads and lining them with metal strips, on the bottom of each car a boss could be fitted with a couple of braided metal strips attached to said boss, some kind of trigger system could be used to apply power and radar would keep a safe distance , we could call it scal…er, well I’m not sure , someone will think of a snappy title…

Alan,I remember when my brother got a Scalextric when I was a kid, I could never keep the car on the track,it would always spin off at the corner. Having said that nearly had the same thing happen one year when it snowed heavily.😂

[Primus1]

I used to have mine set up in my attic but it’s all packed away now and never used..

[Haliotis]

1 hour ago, Primus1 said:

The solution is simple, have a national program of cutting grooves in our roads and lining them with metal strips, on the bottom of each car a boss could be fitted with a couple of braided metal strips attached to said boss, some kind of trigger system could be used to apply power and radar would keep a safe distance , we could call it scal…er, well I’m not sure , someone will think of a snappy title…

That would be great fun on crossroads and roundabouts!  Imagine when the boss got in the wrong groove - we’d need nappies to deal with our panicked reactions!🥵

[Cyker]

2 hours ago, Mjolinor said:

By the time they arrive our only worries would be the thought police and if there is enough soylent green to go round.

Soylent Green is old hat - Soylent Clear is the new hotness! It even has a jingle!  

 

 

[Haliotis]

And here was I, thinking Soylent Green was a spot in an Irishman’s garden where he could have a quiet nap! 😞

[Bper]

A couple of things I came across when reading about SDCs and they were are we prepared for the potential chaos of a mixed traffic environment with both driverless and human driven cars?

Can driverless cars ever truly be programmed to handle the unpredictability of human driving behavior? 

[Roy124]

13 minutes ago, Bper said:

A couple of things I came across when reading about SDCs and they were are we prepared for the potential chaos of a mixed traffic environment with both driverless and human driven cars?

Can driverless cars ever truly be programmed to handle the unpredictability of human driving behavior? 

Not just SDC, but drivers of cars with constant overspeed nagging.  They will experience tailgating,  risk of being trampled by lorries, even road rage.

[Bper]

55 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Not just SDC, but drivers of cars with constant overspeed nagging.  They will experience tailgating,  risk of being trampled by lorries, even road rage.

Roy,IMO SDCs will have to navigate a range of human behaviors on the road. Not only those who blatantly disregard traffic laws, such as speeding and tailgating, but also inattentive drivers. Drivers distracted by phones or other activities pose a problem for any car autonomous or not. Erratic lane changes or aggressive maneuvers can be difficult to anticipate for both human drivers and automated systems. These behaviors can create a dangerous environment for everyone on the road.

Tailgating is an aggressive tactic and it can lead to rear end collisions making the avoidance a critical safety consideration for SDCs. Speeding is not only dangerous but also makes it harder for both human drivers and autonomous systems to react in time to changing situations. Road rage, characterised by irrational or aggressive behavior, is unpredictable and can easily escalate situations. SDCs might need to be programmed with de escalation tactics to avoid further problems.

In the future, SDCs might be equipped with systems that can detect and react to tailgating, maintain safe distances, and possibly report dangerous driving behavior assuming law enforcement can be bothered. With more SDCs on the road, there may be a need for more sophisticated traffic monitoring systems to prevent risky behaviors.

[Haliotis]

Bob, the more we discuss the problems that will need to be overcome (and some may not be completely solvable), the more I feel that SDCs are technologists’ fantasies.  Also, human drivers will always be ready to react to any situation with the need for programming updates.  

[Roy124]

2 hours ago, Bper said:

In the future, SDCs might be equipped with systems that can detect and react to tailgating, maintain safe distances, and possibly report dangerous driving 

A pair of 0.5 Brownings would fix that.  Saw a Romanian lorry that had a notice warning tailgaters would be shot. 

[Roy124]

Yesterday, entering a roundabout I was cut up by a white Beamer who entered alongside me in lane 2 and exited in lane 1.

Approaching the next roundabout she got stuck in lane 2 as I drew alongside in lane 1.  She tried the same trick again only to have to brake sharply as my electric motor did the bizz:)

[Mjolinor]

8 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Yesterday, entering a roundabout I was cut up by a white Beamer who entered alongside me in lane 2 and exited in lane 1.

Approaching the next roundabout she got stuck in lane 2 as I drew alongside in lane 1.  She tried the same trick again only to have to brake sharply as my electric motor did the bizz:)

But she was A) Female so therefore more important than you and B) Driving a BMW so fewer brain cells than are required to drive a car properly.

[Roy124]

Actually,  still thinking about yesterday and probably an impossible SDC manoeuvre (not next year of course) but I was waiting to turn right with a nonstop stream of cars on my right.  Just before this cleared there was a continuous stream from the left.

After a few cars had passed there was a small space.  The decision was 'wait until the next 3 cars passed or go now.'

Had I chosen the safe option there may well have been a new stream from the right.  

I went for the gap.  Flooring the accelerator had me upto speed in no time but the turn was sporty to say the least.

I can't see a Tesla SDC taking that option. Then again......

 

[Bper]

20 minutes ago, Roy124 said:

Actually,  still thinking about yesterday and probably an impossible SDC manoeuvre (not next year of course) but I was waiting to turn right with a nonstop stream of cars on my right.  Just before this cleared there was a continuous stream from the left.

After a few cars had passed there was a small space.  The decision was 'wait until the next 3 cars passed or go now.'

Had I chosen the safe option there may well have been a new stream from the right.  

I went for the gap.  Flooring the accelerator had me upto speed in no time but the turn was sporty to say the least.

I can't see a Tesla SDC taking that option. Then again......

 

Hi Roy,That was a risky right turn,no doubt SDCS would be  programmed for caution, so they likely wouldn't attempt it. But maybe in the future, with even more advanced AI, they could handle these type of situations.

[Bper]

3 hours ago, Haliotis said:

Bob, the more we discuss the problems that will need to be overcome (and some may not be completely solvable), the more I feel that SDCs are technologists’ fantasies.  Also, human drivers will always be ready to react to any situation with the need for programming updates.  

Albert, you are right that SDCs create many issues and to many people these look like pipe dreams or unsolvable.But its important that they are discussed.How do you program a car for every crazy situation you might encounter on the road? And who wants to wait for software updates every time something weird happens?

But on the other hand I have read the counter argument from those that advocate SDCs and say imagine never having to deal with rush hour traffic again, or worrying about distracted drivers. Maybe SDCs could even be way better at following the rules and avoiding accidents than us humans. Personally I do not want SDCs but does anyone on the forum support them.

[Roy124]

I think SDCs will eventually work when the majority of cars are so equipped AND are networked. 

Negotiating a 2-way Victorian Street with parking both sides of the road might prove a tad difficult. 

[Bper]

12 hours ago, Roy124 said:

I think SDCs will eventually work when the majority of cars are so equipped AND are networked. 

Negotiating a 2-way Victorian Street with parking both sides of the road might prove a tad difficult.

Hi Roy,like you said, Victorian streets with parked cars pose a big challenge for SDCs. Tight spaces unpredictable pedestrians, and historic infrastructure makes navigating them difficult.

Possible solutions could be high definition maps with narrow roads, roundabouts, and pedestrian areas. Advanced sensors that can handle rain, fog, and low light conditions will be a priority for SDCs.Testing SDCs in real world environments is vital for their development.The big one is Infrastructure Investment with the upgrading of roads and signage.

[Mjolinor]

I can't help thinking that these electric scooter trials have a hidden agenda to see how the public accepts non ownership with every aspect out of your control.