Remote / Keyless Unlocking Issue

[Cyker]

3 hours ago, Rigsby said:

Another update, the car was in the dealership all day Monday, just got it back at 3 pm today, they can’t find anything wrong with it.

They said the 12v battery was low (never had a problem with it going into Ready mode) so they fully charged the battery, got in the car at the dealers, opened first time, stopped at the shop on the way home, came out and problem still there.

Phoned the dealer, they said it showed no fault codes, and operated normally while in their workshop and basically have no idea what the issue is, I asked if they had checked for a faulty / sticking actuator, they replied “there’s no fault codes and we can’t just replace parts Willy Nilly”

What an infuriating answer! Checking something doesn't necessarily involve replacing a part, and they replace parts "willy nilly" all the time! My Mk2's air con pipes are proof of that!!

But I suspect this is a common problem with a lot of dealers - Very few of them have really experienced mechanics as they have such high turnover, and that negatively affects their ability to do proper diagnostics.

In my experiences with my nearest dealers, I've found unless there's a TSB for it and I can give them the number of it, they are practically incapable of diagnosing anything correctly that isn't blindingly obvious in the first place.

 

[Rigsby]

3 hours ago, Nick72 said:

That is massively disappointing. You've got evidence. They need to find and fix the problem. Letter to dealership exec manager and copied to Toyota Head Office job. They need to do a proper investigation. I doubt a sticky actuator (which sounds like it could be the cause) probably doesn't even have an associated fault code. It's really annoying lazy behaviour from the dealer. I feel for you. Been there with Peugeot. It takes up a lot of your time, causes a lot of anxiety, and you just want reasonable levels of reliability, and in this case from what should be a reliable car.

Remind me, just to totally rule out 12V battery issues, did you have the DCM software update to help it shut down properly and are you 100% sure they've done it? And have you disconnected everything that draws power from the 12V. Even unattached USB cables. 

It could be a very slightly misaligned actuator (solenoid?) which needs extra oomph from a full 12V battery?

🙏🤞❤️

If no further joy I'd be tempted to get tky tap a few things with a hammer. Slight misalignment might be detected and fixed this way but only if you're sure where you think the issue is. Alternatively, try WD40?

As far as I know the DCM software update was done some time ago, and I did ask them to double check that it had.

I don’t really fancy stripping the doors down to spray WD40 or tap the actuators, I’d rather leave that to the dealer.

Getting frustrated with the lack of concern / urgency, I may well have to try a different dealer.

[Rigsby]

1 hour ago, Cyker said:

What an infuriating answer! Checking something doesn't necessarily involve replacing a part, and they replace parts "willy nilly" all the time! My Mk2's air con pipes are proof of that!!

But I suspect this is a common problem with a lot of dealers - Very few of them have really experienced mechanics as they have such high turnover, and that negatively affects their ability to do proper diagnostics.

In my experiences with my nearest dealers, I've found unless there's a TSB for it and I can give them the number of it, they are practically incapable of diagnosing anything correctly that isn't blindingly obvious in the first place.

 

True mechanics are few and far between, they became “fitters” just replacing components rather than fixing them, now they seem to rely on what the computer says.

Diagnostics, fault finding and common sense seems to have disappeared.

[Terry10]

As I have already mentioned with a very similar problem the dealer had a lot of trouble getting to the bottom of my issue but replaced a sort of slave ecu and one wireless door handle. Now sorted.

Terry

[Rigsby]

58 minutes ago, Terry10 said:

As I have already mentioned with a very similar problem the dealer had a lot of trouble getting to the bottom of my issue but replaced a sort of slave ecu and one wireless door handle. Now sorted.

Terry

I’m going to call back in this week, I will definitely mention this to them.

The frustrating thing is that they are saying because it is an intermittent fault they can’t actually do anything unless it happens while they have it, they have the video of what’s happening so surely this must give them a clue and a starting point 

[Terry10]

2 hours ago, Rigsby said:

I’m going to call back in this week, I will definitely mention this to them.

The frustrating thing is that they are saying because it is an intermittent fault they can’t actually do anything unless it happens while they have it, they have the video of what’s happening so surely this must give them a clue and a starting point 

Hi, at my dealership they refer things to their ( tech garu ) but what they did in the end was refer the problem to Toyota and they came back and told them what bits to change. I get the impression that a lot of dealers don't realise that they can refer problem's to Toyota like that.

Or don't they care? 
Terry

[Nick72]

17 hours ago, Rigsby said:

As far as I know the DCM software update was done some time ago, and I did ask them to double check that it had.

I don’t really fancy stripping the doors down to spray WD40 or tap the actuators, I’d rather leave that to the dealer.

Getting frustrated with the lack of concern / urgency, I may well have to try a different dealer.

I wouldn't strip any doors down. I was just thinking if you can see the aperture for the actuator pins or whatever you could try squirting some WD40 inside. 

What I do notice is if I'm retracting the moon roof or the shade and I switch the car off half way through, the sound of motors changes significantly to a laboured buzz. To my mind this means there isn't the same umpf. Slightly low Battery versus full and a very slightly sticky actuator could make all the difference.

Frustrating thing is why you have to sort out the diagnosis rather than them. It's faulty, you have evidence, they need to investigate properly. It's like visiting your GP (don't get me started) and having to do all the research yourself. Or like my current gas boiler man where I basically should have done it all myself for 300 quid versus over a grand. Since I had to talk him through the diagnosis when he was head scratching. Frustrating as ****.

[Nick72]

3 hours ago, Rigsby said:

I’m going to call back in this week, I will definitely mention this to them.

The frustrating thing is that they are saying because it is an intermittent fault they can’t actually do anything unless it happens while they have it, they have the video of what’s happening so surely this must give them a clue and a starting point 

Last thought. Have you tried on the US RAV4 world or whatever it's called? There's a bazillion of these cars in the USA. Highly probable someone else has had the same issue and diagnosed and fixed?

[Nick72]

On 6/1/2024 at 8:48 AM, Rigsby said:

This week my 2021 Dynamic has started playing up when unlocking the car either by the remote or keyless.

Previously as soon as I touched the handle or pressed the unlock button the door would instantly unlock and the door mirrors would swing open, however now there is a delay of 4 or 5 seconds, lots of clicking noises before it unlocks.

II changed the battery in the remote to rule that out and it has made no difference.

Just wondering if anyone else has had this problem.

Have you seen this thread on the US site...

Looks like a very similar issue. 

https://www.rav4world.com/threads/door-lock-issues.333423/?post_id=3080080&nested_view=1&sortby=oldest#post-3080080

 

 

[Nick72]

If I'm reading this right...

There are no control wires controlling door unlock and lock, other than I assume, a power wire unless Toyota has some special magic. It's a radio control signal from the main computer that opens the doors. Probably to save money on minimising wiring looms.

 

Sounds like either...

If not a misaligned or corroded actuator...

A corroded or loose connector in the door.

A relay controller on its way out.

Long shot... Radio interference. 

Just to rule out the long shot you could try opening and closing at several locations. If it's the same doesn't open issue then you can probably rule it out as interference. If you can open repeatedly in one location but not another then it 'could' be an EMI issue. Long shot.

 

More than likely the above earlier issues.

The dealer needs to take the door panel off and take a look, clean any connectors, lubricate the actuators. And if that doesn't work, start by replacing the actuator or any control relays. 

[Nick72]

Sorry to bombard you. Just trying to help.

Thought crossed my mind. 

On mine I've set things up to lock the doors on Drive and unlock on shifter in Park. 

If you've got the same set up and the car has no issues locking or unlocking the doors then it's looking more and more likely a 12V power issue. That doesn't mean to say it is caused by the 12V Battery but rather when the 12V Battery is acting along (no additional power support) like when you unlock the car, then there's something in the 12V power chain amiss. 

As mentioned...

Corroded connectors inside the door, loose wire, dodgy control relay, corroded actuator.

[Nick72]

Seems like a common issue with folks just in or just coming out of warranty.

Reading a lot on Reddit. Seems that water can get in the door and be a potential cause. Relay switch would explain the click clicking sounds.

 

[Rigsby]

2 hours ago, Nick72 said:

Have you seen this thread on the US site...

Looks like a very similar issue. 

https://www.rav4world.com/threads/door-lock-issues.333423/?post_id=3080080&nested_view=1&sortby=oldest#post-3080080

 

 

Thanks Nick for all your research and help, plenty to think about and to talk to the dealer about, fingers crossed they can get to the bottom of it.

When I first went into the dealer about the CanBus plates, because they hadn’t heard of them or the theft problem, they dismissed me as some sort of time waster, saying “don’t believe everything you read on the internet, there’s no problem”

Im getting the same feeling about this issue, they don’t seem to accept that it’s beginning to ***** me off, and I’m becoming a nuisance.

[Cyker]

57 minutes ago, Rigsby said:

Thanks Nick for all your research and help, plenty to think about and to talk to the dealer about, fingers crossed they can get to the bottom of it.

When I first went into the dealer about the CanBus plates, because they hadn’t heard of them or the theft problem, they dismissed me as some sort of time waster, saying “don’t believe everything you read on the internet, there’s no problem”

Im getting the same feeling about this issue, they don’t seem to accept that it’s beginning to ***** me off, and I’m becoming a nuisance.

It'd be funny if a load of them got nicked off their forecourt via the canbus hack  

 

[Rigsby]

9 minutes ago, Cyker said:

It'd be funny if a load of them got nicked off their forecourt via the canbus hack  

 

I was honestly made to feel like I was being a nuisance and bothering them, I knew far more about it than they did, even showed them a video of one being stolen and they were still in denial.

[Cyker]

Sounds like my sales experience!  The only time they gave me any real attention was when they realized I hadn't filled in the finance form properly   That was only the 2nd time I had one of them call me back (The first was when they forgot to charge me for an MOT  ).

To be fair they have gotten slightly better but I'd still rate them more 'okayish' than 'good'.

It's frankly baffling how wide the gamut of customer service levels is between all the Toyota dealers... you'd think there'd be more consistency given they're all under the Toyota banner!

I think where you are there are more choices for better ones (I feel all the ones in London are affected by the same apathy...) so it might be worth going to slightly further one that has better reports from other members...

 

[Nick72]

A lot of them sadly fall into the dumb, dumber, lazy category. 

Not limited to Toyota dealers. I could never get the foot well heating to work on a new Merc. Tried several times and each time they said they couldn't find a problem and then at a later time had fixed it. I made the manager sit in the car in winter to demonstrate. No matter what the settings on the controls there was no heat coming into the foot wells. He agreed and said they'd have another go.

They still never managed to fix it. I gave up as it was livable.

But I knew what it was. There's a valve that was badly installed or badly designed and subject to sticking. Plenty about it on the forums at the time. Mentioned it to them to no avail. I think it was a big job to replace it with everything that had to come out to get to it.

Sometimes I think they have an agenda to complement their incompetence.

But taking off the door panel seems like a 10 minute job. 

[Cyker]

I do wish I could find someone like Diagnose Dan in this country - He always diagnoses the cause, not the symptom, which sadly is something very rare with not just most dealers but most garages in general...

In his most recent video he was diagnosing a blocked DPF - Rather than just replace or clean it and send them on their way, which is what 99% of other places would do, he dug deeper to find out why it was blocking up so quickly and found a damaged turbo pipe which was leaking air and making it run too rich, and thus sooty.

 

[Nick72]

3 hours ago, Cyker said:

I do wish I could find someone like Diagnose Dan in this country - He always diagnoses the cause, not the symptom, which sadly is something very rare with not just most dealers but most garages in general...

In his most recent video he was diagnosing a blocked DPF - Rather than just replace or clean it and send them on their way, which is what 99% of other places would do, he dug deeper to find out why it was blocking up so quickly and found a damaged turbo pipe which was leaking air and making it run too rich, and thus sooty.

 

Agreed. They aren't even technicians anymore never mind engineers. They're barely fitters heavily reliant on fault codes to swap parts. 

[ColinB]

18 hours ago, Nick72 said:

Agreed. They aren't even technicians anymore never mind engineers. They're barely fitters heavily reliant on fault codes to swap parts. 

This is why for my motorbike I use a small, independent Honda trained mechanic who relies on giving good service for repeat custom

[PeteChat]

6 hours ago, ColinB said:

This is why for my motorbike I use a small, independent Honda trained mechanic who relies on giving good service for repeat custom

My bikes are 71, 65 and 20 years old, and even the newest is based on a 70 year old design, so I do all my own repairs and maintenance. No diagnostic port on any of them 😂

[Mjolinor]

8 hours ago, PeteChat said:

My bikes are 71, 65 and 20 years old, and even the newest is based on a 70 year old design, so I do all my own repairs and maintenance. No diagnostic port on any of them 😂

OK, I'll bite. What is the 70 year old design?

Can't be a bullet, that's 95 years old or a BMW, that's 104, Tiger / Bonny both 90 odd years. Can't think of any other bikes with origins 70 years ago unless you are counting "it has two wheels". 🙂

 

[PeteChat]

On 7/26/2024 at 7:03 AM, Mjolinor said:

OK, I'll bite. What is the 70 year old design?

Can't be a bullet, that's 95 years old or a BMW, that's 104, Tiger / Bonny both 90 odd years. Can't think of any other bikes with origins 70 years ago unless you are counting "it has two wheels". 🙂

 

It’s an Indian built 2004 Royal Enfield 350 Bullet, the tooling was shipped across to India in 1954 to fulfill a big order from the Indian Police and military. The Redditch built ones were being updated, so the tooling was defunct. Redditch shut in around 1971, but India is still going strong.

Mine has the pre 54 spec with iron engine and 4 speed box, but more modern electrics and better brakes.

I suppose the Bullet was based on the prewar Model G, so yes, the basic design goes much further back 🤔

[Bozz]

My Corolla started to not unlock completely or unlock was delayed and I put it down to low charge in the 12V Battery.

Had the DCM recall done a couple of months ago but now the problem is back with a vengence.

Almost every other time I try to use the keyless entry it fails to unlock the drivers side rear door and / or there is a few seconds delay to unlocking. Not an issue when using the key.

Mentioned it to the dealer but no fault code so nothing to see here 

 

 

[Rigsby]

Bit of an update, problem still ongoing but have been living with it, but the rear near side door has now stopped unlocking and can’t be opened from the inside or the outside prompting me to go back to the dealer.

Car has been in the dealership for two full days, received a call late afternoon to say “they are struggling to find what’s wrong” they have been in touch with Toyota GB who also have no idea other to swop over various components one at a time until it resolves the problem.

So no idea when I will get my car back but fingers crossed when I do everything is working as it should.