Steering wobble, brake pulsing, chaffing sound / diagnosis?

[ziauris]

Hi

Car: Auris 1.6 TR  2007

 

My car has developed steering wobble, which seems worse if tyre pressure is low. The brakes also pulse at the same point (if that makes sense) and there is a rubbing/chaffing sound at the same point. 

I think it started after I hit a kerb (OSF tyre and possibly OSR) and went over it at around 20 miles an hour on a roundabout but not 100% sure of this. Front pads and brake discs are new-ish, rear pads are also newish but discs are quite old but the car passed MoT with the steering wobble/pulsing brakes issues with no advisories.

Where should I start with a diagnosis of the issue? I was thinking of swapping the front wheels and back wheels to see if that makes any difference to start...

Any other ideas?

[Cyker]

Sounds like you've bent a suspension arm or knackered the wheel bearing - I think it'll need a bit more fettling than just swapping wheels around!

If you can get it in the air, you can at least spin the wheel to see it it's still true or if it's now 'eccentric', and then take it from there...

[TonyHSD]

Well, 

you have a serious problem with your car. Most likely damaged suspension arm and other components. Best to get the car checked asap. 
What you need to do is physical inspection for damage on suspension arm, wheel, tyre, steering rack , both tie ends, axle, drive shaft, at least one of these has an issue. Then you need to replace what is not right of fix it and then do a wheel alignment. If you don’t find anything wrong which  is unlikely you might at least have buckled wheel or out of balance.  
These are your first steps. 
Park the car on a level ground and measure the distance better tyre and the arch on both front wheels both sides and of any major difference better L and R you may have a bend arm. 
 

[Red_Corolla]

Sounds like you've buckled something from the symptoms - either the wheel or the hub itself.

You might see something by looking down the line of the wheel or brake disc as you spin it, but only if it's really severe. To check properly requires a DTI (dial test indicator).

[solero]

If it was wishbone/steering/brake related, im sure mot would have picked up on it.

Check you tyre isn't out of shape. jack it up off the ground slightly and roll check for uneven clearance gap with road surface when rotating wheel.

Also check the dates on the tyres.

[xrhstosgr]

Hello in addition to all the above that you should check you should definitely look at the condition of the brake discs, as it is very likely that there is a serious reason for the symptoms you describe

[ziauris]

5 hours ago, Cyker said:

Sounds like you've bent a suspension arm or knackered the wheel bearing - I think it'll need a bit more fettling than just swapping wheels around!

If you can get it in the air, you can at least spin the wheel to see it it's still true or if it's now 'eccentric', and then take it from there...

Unlikely to knackered suspension/wheel bearing as MoT should have picked it up. Maybe bent the alloy.

5 hours ago, TonyHSD said:

Well, 

you have a serious problem with your car. Most likely damaged suspension arm and other components. Best to get the car checked asap. 
What you need to do is physical inspection for damage on suspension arm, wheel, tyre, steering rack , both tie ends, axle, drive shaft, at least one of these has an issue. Then you need to replace what is not right of fix it and then do a wheel alignment. If you don’t find anything wrong which  is unlikely you might at least have buckled wheel or out of balance.  
These are your first steps. 
Park the car on a level ground and measure the distance better tyre and the arch on both front wheels both sides and of any major difference better L and R you may have a bend arm. 
 

I doubt it's anything serious as would have not passed MoT. 

 

5 hours ago, Red_Corolla said:

Sounds like you've buckled something from the symptoms - either the wheel or the hub itself.

You might see something by looking down the line of the wheel or brake disc as you spin it, but only if it's really severe. To check properly requires a DTI (dial test indicator).

 

4 hours ago, solero said:

If it was wishbone/steering/brake related, im sure mot would have picked up on it.

Check you tyre isn't out of shape. jack it up off the ground slightly and roll check for uneven clearance gap with road surface when rotating wheel.

Also check the dates on the tyres.

 

3 hours ago, xrhstosgr said:

Hello in addition to all the above that you should check you should definitely look at the condition of the brake discs, as it is very likely that there is a serious reason for the symptoms you describe

I think I will check the following as MoT should have picked anything serious:

1) Wheel/alloy bent out of shape

2) Brake discs

3) Brake dust shield/thing that protects inner wheel components if it's been knocked out of shape and is touching the brake disc as it spins round 

4) Balance/alignment - costs money so will leave to last thing. 

5) tyres are down to around 2mm but were fine before the bump with the kerb, any bulges/tyre damage  should have been spotted at MoT, but will inspect in any case when I get the car in the jack.

6) Rotate front and back wheels > so if alloy is buckled then that should confirm that issue I think?

Any other ideas welcome too..

[TonyHSD]

MOT tests often missed obvious faults and defects.
The testers works on specific way to check and test things, fill up data sheets and decide pass or failed. MOT tests aren’t designed to discover faults but to run an overall check of the car and decide on its road worthiness in terms of road safety , not working condition of the vehicle and operating functionality. 
Basically a car passes mot can be a total wreck with not properly working systems. 

If the OP car wobble after an impact there is a problem, minimum buckled wheel, damaged tyre, suspension issues, or even a engine , transmission mount. , or out of alignment. Things that aren’t easily spotted but they exist and cause issues.
If the op doesn’t want to spend money to investigate, find fault and repair then it’s his own decision and he is free to do so, by the law the car has passed mot and road worthy. 

[Cyker]

Very possible #3 is causing the rubbing sound as it's notoriously bendable, but not the other symptoms.

[ziauris]

On 6/5/2024 at 1:31 PM, TonyHSD said:

MOT tests often missed obvious faults and defects.
The testers works on specific way to check and test things, fill up data sheets and decide pass or failed. MOT tests aren’t designed to discover faults but to run an overall check of the car and decide on its road worthiness in terms of road safety , not working condition of the vehicle and operating functionality. 
Basically a car passes mot can be a total wreck with not properly working systems. 

If the OP car wobble after an impact there is a problem, minimum buckled wheel, damaged tyre, suspension issues, or even a engine , transmission mount. , or out of alignment. Things that aren’t easily spotted but they exist and cause issues.
If the op doesn’t want to spend money to investigate, find fault and repair then it’s his own decision and he is free to do so, by the law the car has passed mot and road worthy. 

 

On 6/5/2024 at 8:22 PM, Cyker said:

Very possible #3 is causing the rubbing sound as it's notoriously bendable, but not the other symptoms.

Thanks Tony and Cyker and the rest of you...

I jacked up the OSF (drivers side) tyre and tried to spin it. It stops at the same point and takes more effort to spin it past that point. I couldn't spin it enough to see if it's buckled as it would stop  before doing a full spin.

I took the tyre off and tried to spin the OSF brake disc. It stops at the same point and is takes more effort to spin it past that point.

I replaced OSF (drivers side) tyre with the space saver tyre. NO MORE steering wheel wobble but brake still pulses at the same point each time (and speeds up with speed) and feels worse at lower speeds.

My conclusion from the above appears to be:

1) that the OSF (drivers side) alloy is probably buckled which would explain the steering wobble disappearing after using the space saver tyre.

2) brake disc is buckled which is why it stops spinning at the same point and brake pedal pulses.

 

Any other ideas/comments?

[solero]

It could still be an out of shape tyre caused by a broken cord/belt in the tyre. Not necessarily a buckled alloy. Less likely if its a 16" alloy. Didnt you try the wheel roll test monitoring the gap between the road surface and the tyre as you turned it?

If the tyres are near end of life, may as well replace the pair and see if that fixes it.

[TonyHSD]

Or if any grease been used between hub and disc and disc and wheel? 
This is usually what happens after some miles driven,  DTV - disc thickness variation and following vibrations and pulsating brake pedal. 
Take disc off the hub, clean everything to bare metal, fit back in without any grease between any mounting parts, clean disc surfaces with wire brush and  sandpaper for wood, pads with wire brush and brake cleaner. Fit all together dry, no lubrication anywhere except silicone grease on slider pins. Torque lug nuts cross pattern. 
Take it easy on the brakes for the next 200 miles or so and you won’t have any problems. 

[ziauris]

I decided to find out if it is really the front or rear brakes that are pulsing. The front brakes are definately sticking but I don't think they are the cause of the pulsing.

 

To prove this I decided to drive the car slowly forward and just pull up the handbrake which would only be using the rear brakes and I noticed something very wrong. The OSR (drivers rear) side of the car would dip/get pulled down at the same point of the tyre rotation, like the handbrake was jamming the brakes at the same point on the rotation and the rear shock getting pulled down. SO it look like the brake is getting jammed down at that point. I looked at the OSR disk and the pad is only making contact with the lower two thirds of the surface and the disk has been on for 100k miles and is crumbling and rusted.

The way of making sure would be to take it to the MOT centre and do the rolling brake test for front and back separately but it looks pretty conclusive to me. 

So it looks like I am going to be replacing the rear discs and pads.  When I replaced the front disks it  was really difficult to get them off and I struggled for some time. I saw that there are screws holes in the rear disks that one can screw screws into to these holes to help get them off from the hub if the discs are corrosion welded on. My question is, does anyone know what size screws they are?

I have coloured the holes in red below on an auris rear brake disc:

 

 

 

This is a pic fron the internet of a similar disc (not auris) to make the question a bit more clear

[xrhstosgr]

8 hours ago, ziauris said:

Αποφάσισα να μάθω αν πάλλονται πραγματικά τα μπροστινά ή τα πίσω φρένα. Τα μπροστινά φρένα σίγουρα κολλάνε αλλά δεν νομίζω ότι είναι η αιτία του παλμού.

 

Για να το αποδείξω αυτό, αποφάσισα να οδηγήσω το αυτοκίνητο αργά προς τα εμπρός και απλώς να σηκώσω το χειρόφρενο που θα χρησιμοποιούσε μόνο τα πίσω φρένα και παρατήρησα κάτι πολύ λάθος. Η OSR (οδηγός πίσω) πλευρά του αυτοκινήτου θα έπεφτε/έτρεχε προς τα κάτω στο ίδιο σημείο της περιστροφής του ελαστικού, όπως το χειρόφρενο μπλοκάρει τα φρένα στο ίδιο σημείο της περιστροφής και το πίσω αμορτισέρ έπεφτε προς τα κάτω. Φαίνεται λοιπόν ότι το φρένο μπλοκάρει σε εκείνο το σημείο. Κοίταξα τον δίσκο OSR και το μαξιλαράκι έρχεται σε επαφή μόνο με τα κάτω δύο τρίτα της επιφάνειας και ο δίσκος είναι ενεργοποιημένος για 100 χιλιάδες μίλια και είναι θρυμματισμένος και σκουριασμένος.

Ο τρόπος για να βεβαιωθείτε θα ήταν να το πάτε στο κέντρο του MOT και να κάνετε τη δοκιμή πέδησης κύλισης για εμπρός και πίσω χωριστά, αλλά μου φαίνεται αρκετά πειστικό. 

Φαίνεται λοιπόν ότι πρόκειται να αντικαταστήσω τους πίσω δίσκους και τα μαξιλαράκια. Όταν αντικατέστησα τους μπροστινούς δίσκους ήταν πολύ δύσκολο να τους αφαιρέσω και δυσκολεύτηκα για αρκετή ώρα. Είδα ότι υπάρχουν τρύπες για βίδες στους πίσω δίσκους στις οποίες μπορεί κανείς να βιδώσει τις βίδες σε αυτές τις οπές για να τις απομακρύνει από την πλήμνη εάν οι δίσκοι είναι κολλημένοι με διάβρωση. Η απορία μου είναι, ξέρει κανείς τι μέγεθος βίδες είναι;

Έχω χρωματίσει τις τρύπες με κόκκινο παρακάτω σε ένα πίσω δίσκο φρένου auris:

 

 

 

Αυτή είναι μια φωτογραφία από το διαδίκτυο ενός παρόμοιου δίσκου (όχι auris) για να γίνει η ερώτηση λίγο πιο ξεκάθαρη

Hello Logically it should be M12X1.5 /48mm 90942-02017

[ziauris]

On 8/2/2024 at 7:30 AM, xrhstosgr said:

Hello Logically it should be M12X1.5 /48mm 90942-02017

thanks,  I may have to take it into a DIY store to make sure and will report back as it will be useful to other forum members.