A Real Shame...

[T V O R]

why was the driver going so fast!! at the end of the day it was the driver who was breaking the law by speading, not the child!

Where has it said anywhere that he was going too fast?????

The toddler let go of her hand and she ran after him only a short distance into the road. She thought the driver was gonna stop intime,

I think that staement comtaisn the answer. It ran out, she "assumed" the car would stop... would she say the same if it ran out infront of a train?? would the train driver be blamed if it bowled over some kid that ran into its path??

Good point, plus, would you be able to see a 2 year old from behind a wheel of a MR2?

I haven’t been in one so I don’t know the driving position, I know they are low down, but some low cars can have poor visibility due to seat positioning and the bonnet being in the way.

[Karma Supra]

it doesnt! but words such as "ploughed" and "boy racer" it is hard not to assume he was going too fast

You clearly know little to nothing about journalists and the press.

[T V O R]

it doesnt! but words such as "ploughed" and "boy racer" it is hard not to assume he was going too fast

That’s the media for you.

Trial by newspapers, they have already put the thought in your head that he was speeding without knowing the facts, maybe he was doing 30mph?

[Bibbs]

You clearly know little to nothing about journalists and the press.

think it proves your point ..

you could reword that whole article and make it sound the opposite but still factual ..

2 points ..

1. Dont drive fast in build up areas

2. Dont have padestrians on main roads ..

[Jesus]

why was the driver going so fast!! at the end of the day it was the driver who was breaking the law by speading, not the child!

Where has it said anywhere that he was going too fast?????

...true.

A two-year-old boy has died after being struck by a hit-and-run driver whose car dragged him 300 yards along a Birmingham road.

...300 yards is hell of a way to travel. It takes an average car ~80 yards to brake from 60mph-0mph. You gotta wonder what was going on in the drivers head.

[Karma Supra]

Good point, plus, would you be able to see a 2 year old from behind a wheel of a MR2?

I haven’t been in one so I don’t know the driving position, I know they are low down, but some low cars can have poor visibility due to seat positioning and the bonnet being in the way.

I'd think you would, as you are low down you see everything bigger.. A deer ran out infront of me the other day, and from where I was sitting we were near enough face to face, he Eyes were a good few inches above mine... !Removed! scary!!!!.

However the fact that the toddler was dragged along the road suggests he miight have fallen over before hand.. an MR2 is low, and most things will go over the bonnet..

That combined with the fact a 13 year old just ran near enough in front of him, its not hard to imagine that he saw her first, and being focused in trying to avoid her missed the fact that there was a little person about 1/5th her size in tow.

He probably heard a thump and saw her hopping about swearing with a hurt foot and drove on angry and shaken up at the fact that some idiot that would have seemingly dived at his car.. did not realise there was a toddler underneath.. when he DID realise.. he paniced, probably felt very physically sick and ran... at times like that people don't act rationally... then maybe he came back and saw a load of blue flashing lights and freaaked and just ran....

[Jesus]

He probably heard a thump and saw her hopping about swearing with a hurt foot and drove on angry and shaken up at the fact that some idiot that would have seemingly dived at his car.. did not realise there was a toddler underneath.. when he DID realise.. he paniced, probably felt very physically sick and ran... at times like that people don't act rationally... then maybe he came back and saw a load of blue flashing lights and freaaked and just ran....

Very possibly. Panick would take over. All the same, a horrible thought.

[Karma Supra]

Its a tradgety regardless of whose fault it was or was not,

but I feel its totally unfair to blindly accuse the driver, purely because he is male, in what looks like a "high powered sports car", therefore he was clearly a boyracer, and speeding.. a true danger to society :ffs:

[T V O R]

I would assume it’s not appropriate to make any jokes about this?

[Richard K]

I must admit going slower reduces the risk of an accident

No real argument against it.

but pedestrians are not always beyond your stopping distance at any speed above 10mph.

I don't know the proper stopping distance at 30mph

I think it might be 50-60ft (apologies and correct me if I'm wrong)

Most Current cars can do it in less.

A friend lent me an IAM book (Institute of Advance Motoring)

which had a few simple things

look for feet/shadows behind parked vehicles especailly high ones

cover your brake pedal if you do not need to accelerate and there are potential hazard.

there's no excuse for driving 300yards after an accident.

[Karma Supra]

If I thought someone had run out and kicked my car and saw them hopping in my rear view, I would only stop to give them a kicking of my own.

If I was fueled up and mad about that its possible that I might not notice there is a child under my car.. if it was caught on the sump and not touching the wheels it would be even harder to detect, as flesh is soft it would make no scraping sounds... so is 300 ft that unfeasable?

Also bear in mind that not everyone is of an advanced level. there are far far worse drivers out there that have possible caused hundreds of accidents, but not actually been in one due to poor driving.....

Last summer I was driving along in my supra with my dad. We were following a mondeo, which was following a rover.. suddenly an elderly lady driving a 205 shot out of the side road causing the rover to take SERIOUS evasive action... if it wasn't for the above average perceptiveness and car controll of that rover driver, there would have beena smash for sure... the old lady then parked her car opposite at about 30 degrees, the front bumper pretty much touching the barn wall she had pulled up to.

The mondeo after narrowly avoiding rear ending the rover drove past and we slowed down and looked at her. "do you know your total unawareness and disregard for other road users nearly caused a serious accident?.. have you been drinking?" my dad asked.. she peered at him, them me in the drivers seet through her thick horn rimmed specs and asked me "and how fast were YOU going in THAT car young man?"..

This ****** me off for two reasons. Firstly she had no idea at all that there was a rover that nearly hit her.. or indeed a mondeo after....

Secondly just because I was a young guy in a fast car that burbles lots she immediately accused ME of SPEEEDING...

See my point??

[urotsukidoji_badassdemon]

hey voice of reason, did you knwo the Green Cross Code Man went on to play Darth Vader ( !Removed! helmet ) in the Star Wars films!?!?!

[Richard K]

I've changed my route to work because of the number of schools that are along itm, but it's not outside the schools you have to worry about, it's the surrounding roads.

I'm 28 but I was always get angry when I see ADULTS not teenagers with their child or children next to the road, it only takes a child to spot someone they know across the road and it two late, at least on the the other side the parent or adult has that extra fraction of a second to stop them.

And as we all know 1/10th of a sec can mean an important amount distance to a driver or a pedestrian

when all the facts are out we'll know.

[T V O R]

just because I was a young guy ina fast car that burbles lots she immediately accused ME of SPEEEDING...

See my point??

Totally...

Old people and kids :ffs: They should come with a health warning...

[T V O R]

hey voice of reason, did you knwo the Green Cross Code Man went on to play Darth Vader ( !Removed! helmet ) in the Star Wars films!?!?!

Oh yes!

Dave Prowse played Darth Vader and James Earl Jones done his voice!

He always signs his autographs as:

"Dave Prowse is Darth Vader!"

[Kelvyn]

The toddler let go of her hand and she ran after him only a short distance into the road. She thought the driver was gonna stop intime,

I think that staement comtaisn the answer. It ran out, she "assumed" the car would stop... would she say the same if it ran out infront of a train?? would the train driver be blamed if it bowled over some kid that ran into its path??

Its all very well saying she assumed it would stop. If the driver didnt react in time and hit them accidentally thats one thing. This moron then dragged this toddler for 300 yards, then when the knocking and banging of this poor child being dragged under his car for so long stopped, all he did was drive off and dump the car. The sad thing is even if the driver is caught and convicted he(she) (just because this 18 yr old was arrested and released on bail doesn't mean it was him) will probably only get a short sentence, abit of a fine and a couple of years ban. The family of the toddler now have the rest of their lives in torment. They say time heals, but personally I think thats cr*p. Things may become less painfull over time but every year there will be anniversaries fo the family, birthdays, Christmas, he would have started school today, it goes on and on.

The girl in charge of the toddler may never completely recover from this, always in her mind may be IF ONLY. My heartfelt sympathy goes to the families of these children and to the young girl herself.

This was no accident. Accidents happen yes, but even if the toddler ran out in front of the car and the driver was totally blameless, he should have STOPPED. Hit and run is no accident, to run away requires a mental decision, THEY dont happen by accident. This offence as someone said earlier will be treated as a motoring offence, well personally I think it should be treated at the very least as manslaughter but prefferably as murder.

How can you compare this to someone being hit by a train?? Thats an insulting comment, showing in my opinion a complete lack of compassion.

[Karma Supra]

Kelvyn, have you read this entire thread all the way though? Coments like that just irritate me. irrational, totally based on assumption, and manipulated by the media, like sheep lead by a shephard

CAN you imagine whats going thru the DRIVERS head right now???

How can you compare this to someone being hit by a train?? Thats an insulting comment, showing in my opinion a complete lack of compassion

A vehicle desiged as transport, running along a predefined path, that you cross at your own risk... its not rocket science!!!

[Richard K]

This is my opinion only I don't know the law at all

murder - pre-meditated killing (decide to do it)

manslaughter - Killing but not intentional (but cover it up after act)

sorry don't know proper term.

When he/she hit them I'd say that's an "accident"

to leave the scene is 'hit and run' full stop.

to continue after driving up the road with the toddler underneath

Causing death by dangerous driving.

HOWEVER to abandon car aswell and not admit to being involved he/she should get Manslaughter (because it's a form of cover up, Rgiht?)

unfortunately he/she'll get death by dangerous driving

Does anyone remember many years ago when a Lorry driver

turned left knocked a boy off his bike (few scrapes) but when pedestrians tried to stop the lorry he sped up and killed him with the rear wheels He only got Death by dangerous driving.

[Karma Supra]

A bit back in henley a lorry knocked down and squashed an old lady, then carried on driving.... after looking into it they found...

the driver of a bin lorry would not feel an 80 year old under its wheels....

The woman was short, and was crossing the road infront of the lorry at the traffic lights, it was a flat fronted bin lorry and the driver could not have seen her crossing (when she shouldn't have been).

I remember the press kicked up a fuss then and accused the driver of all sorts... They antagonise both sides of the event, blur the truth and cause unesseary heart ache for a quick buck......

[Richard K]

apologies for the typos

what we must all agree is that certain factors add up to an accident but after that it changes.

Toddler runs into road

Car didn't or couldn't stop in time.

Accident

Events After that are criminal acts.

DO PEOPLE AGREE??

[Kelvyn]

CAN you imagine whats going thru the DRIVERS head right now???

How can you compare this to someone being hit by a train?? Thats an insulting comment, showing in my opinion a complete lack of compassion

A vehicle desiged as transport, running along a predefined path, that you cross at your own risk... its not rocket science!!!

Yeah probably" F**K wish they hadn't caught me" . As I said in my previous post "even if the driver was totally blameless, he should have STOPPED". You say he may not have realised he hit the toddler after looking in his mirror seeing some teenager hopping around after kicking his car, well I for one would have stopped if only to say "what theF**K are you playing at". I guess as a dad and grand-dad my perspective is a little different to yours.

A vehicle designed as transport running along a pre defined path?? My car goes where I point the front wheels, not many train drivers have that option (unless you know something about trains that I dont). Besides the rail authorities tend to make it a little harder to get onto the tracks accidentally than the road authorities do UNFORTUNATELY.

Believe me I do understand that the story will contain sensationalism, but at the end of the day ANYONE involved in ANY accident should stop (Cue the car jacking scam comments------common sense applies)

[Karma Supra]

We don't have enough info to agree ot not... like I said its possible the guy was so shaken up he did not realise... when he did and saw the mess he was sick and from that moment on no one will be in a reasonable and logical frame of mind... would you??

How many people here as a kid broke a window or something and legged it with fear.. the stresses thei guy are under must be tremendous.. if he was sitting there in fear having just ran and came back to see blue flashing lights it'll hit him. "they will blame me as I ran... crap... and runs away again... surely you can see that too? it might not be what happened, but I'd not say that its unlikely that that is what happened? Untill you have been in that situation what give you the right and authority to comment on the ability of rational thought??? whatever he saw will be VERY grewsome, and I doubt he has slept since.

I was expecting that sort of comment Kelvyn, yes you can change where a car goes.. but to all intents and purposes the road is a "track" which the cars follow, and should be treated with the same respect!! if the car had lost controll, mounted the pavement and mown them down at speed THEN driven off, it would be a different matter!!

[Richard K]

I must say the reason why there was an uproar with this particular lorry driver was He was banned and had poor eyesight or no sight in one eye.

This story was one of a group that was on Channel 4 or 5 About people taking revenge, cos some took a shotgun to him, but he hid behind his wife.

I watch too much TV.

Sorry for waffling on, I always go off on a tangent.

[Karma Supra]

I watch too much TV.

Sorry for waffling on, I always go off on a tangent.

no worries mate I can see why people got slightly hot under the collar over that one!!!

[Richard K]

Karma Supra

I have to agree and apologise.

it's always easier to pass comment or judgement outside the situation not knowing all the facts.

Panic and fear can change everything.

BUT I'D STILL LIKE TO THINK I'D DO THE RIGHT THING.