Rav4 HEV or PHEV?

[J2024IE]

I am considering changing to a Rav4,  test drove the Rav4 PHEV  today,  was impressed with comfort compared to the Corolla TS.   most of my driving during the week are  short drives,   5km or so per day during week and longer drives at the weekend.

with the PHEV when you start it, does it warm the engine first, or does it operate fully on Battery first before the engine gets started?

during the test drive it operated on EV the entire time, and I could not tell if the engine started at all.

on longer drives how much can  it charge the Battery? 

 

 

 

[philip42h]

Basically, it will run as an EV until the Battery is down to around 30% and then run as a HEV. It doesn't start the engine just to warm it up when it doesn't have to, but it will run the engine as and when it wants to.

[Mead]

J2024IE - By default it will run as an EV and then as a hybrid when the Battery runs out or if you select the HV button. If you want to it can charge the Battery from the engine whilst driving to a high level but it probably is not as efficient as charging it with the plug. If you are only driving short journeys day to day the engine need not start at all. If you only drive 5km or so a day then EV will more than last a week so it is effectively an EV.  You will have no range anxiety on a long journey since it then just becomes a hybrid ( with a range of up to 500 miles plus -800km plus on a full tank).  My car ( Suzuki Across - effectively a Rav 4 PHEV) is now registering EV of over 50 miles (over 80km) at present on a full charge and it is certainly not far off its true range, though I would expect it to drop a little in colder months.

[Mike2222]

As others have said - defaults to EV mode on every startup, until Battery at 30%, then Hybrid thereafter.

This means that the car doesn't specifically "charge the battery" on longer drives (unless you manually force it into that specific engine mode - if you are not otherwise aware, there is an option to make the engine run slightly harder to both drive the car and work as a generator for the Battery. The theory goes that the purpose of this is primarily in case you will be driving to an urban area later on your drive that is restricted/zero emissions driving only, but in practice most people don't use this because current traffic policing technology cannot tell when a phev is operating on Battery or engine without literally following with person etc, and the charge is quite wasteful/inefficient in comparison to just letting the car figure it out in hybrid mode). 

Apologies if the following is redundant, but just in case you don't have previous experience of the Corolla and we're simply test driving this as well, in hybrid mode the car usually does a kind of 'burst and glide' pattern, where engine operates during larger throttle inputs (acceleration, uphill, higher speeds), but it does so at the most efficient rpm for the required amount of power, meaning that if coming from a 'traditional' modern turbocharged engine, the engine sounds like it's straining/overreacting sometimes on acceleration, but any excess power generated will be harvested back into the battery, instead of being wasted as in the aforementioned turbo design. You quickly get used to this sound pattern, however. Then where possible the engine switches off and EV motors maintain speed/momentum/regenerate battery, and the car alternates back and forth as it sees fit. 

With respect to your expected use pattern - sounds likely that unless you tell it to do something, a Rav phev would operate almost exclusively as an EV for you, however if you were at all concerned about that impacting the health of the engine etc, the car knows that it needs to circulate the oil/fluids etc every now and then, so it will occasionally switch itself on for a few minutes when it thinks it needs to do this. It's often a surprise, but my observation is that this tends to happen once every few weeks in colder seasons, and perhaps once a month in warmer months. 

[Mike2222]

@J2024IE Just read your profile. Apologies for the overexplanation of how hydrid drive works 😂

[Shepsy]

6 minutes ago, Mike2222 said:

@J2024IE Just read your profile. Apologies for the overexplanation of how hydrid drive works 😂

I bet you’re the type of person that tries to operate new equipment (to etc) without reading the instructions first…………Welcome to the club !😀

[Mjolinor]

3 minutes ago, Shepsy said:

I bet you’re the type of person that tries to operate new equipment (to etc) without reading the instructions first…………Welcome to the club !😀

If you need to read the instructions it is badly designed. 🙂

[AJones]

17 hours ago, J2024IE said:

with the PHEV when you start it, does it warm the engine first, or does it operate fully on battery first before the engine gets started?

No the Toyota PHEVs don't warm the engine on start-up, as mentioned they default to EV mode and keep the engine cold. The Toyota PHEVs, certainly the RAV4 and the Prius have a heat-pump built in so they can also heat the cabin using the Battery without needing to start the engine.

In the Prius PHEV, the one thing which does force the engine on (perhaps someone with a RAV4 PHEV could confirm if the same applies) is using the front windscreen defrost / de-fogger function, where the engine starts for providing extra heat, drying. 

17 hours ago, J2024IE said:

on longer drives how much can  it charge the battery? 

So if you've charged the Battery up before you start, when you operate in EV mode the charge level drops as you use it, once it reaches the minimum, hybrid level (at this point you have used all of the charge you put it by plugging it in) it now automatically switches into hybrid mode, at this point it runs like a regular hybrid, doing small amounts of charging and discharging as the engine cuts in and out, as you brake etc, but it doesn't actively start charging up the Battery because there's not much benefit to doing this. So on a long drive you normally end with the battery at its minimum level, ready for plugging in and recharging.

[Hayzee]

31 minutes ago, AJones said:

In the Prius PHEV, the one thing which does force the engine on (perhaps someone with a RAV4 PHEV could confirm if the same applies) is using the front windscreen defrost / de-fogger function, where the engine starts for providing extra heat, drying.

Yes it's the same for the RAV4 PHEV and indeed Lexus PHEVs.

[Paul john]

34 minutes ago, AJones said:

No the Toyota PHEVs don't warm the engine on start-up, as mentioned they default to EV mode and keep the engine cold. The Toyota PHEVs, certainly the RAV4 and the Prius have a heat-pump built in so they can also heat the cabin using the battery without needing to start the engine.

The Prius HEV has an “engine warm up cycle”

[Flatcoat]

9 minutes ago, Paul john said:

The Prius HEV has an “engine warm up cycle”

Maybe but the RAV PHEV does not. 

[Paul john]

18 minutes ago, Flatcoat said:

Maybe but the RAV PHEV does not. 

Agreed. Thats why i said HEV. The OP was asking about both HEV and PHEV. 
 

Mind you, the PHEV engine warm up cycle does kick in at temperatures lower than -10 according to the documentation. Just to keep that Atkinson cycle ICE happy. Lol

[TonyHSD]

Every car buy serve different purpose. 
How you pay for the car and how long you are planning to keep it also matters.
What are your driving patterns, time, mileage, personal or business use?
All questions above strictly individual., and so the answer of the question hev or phev strictly individual too. 
Hev benefits are - one energy supply only ⛽️ to think off , lighter car , easier to sell , there are higher demand for hev on the used car market. 
Phev - benefits are pure ev range that can allow you to travel on electric power alone without use of any petrol, more power and faster acceleration.

Negatives:   
Hev - has no pure ev range and always work in combination with petrol engine. Less total power output. 
Plug in hybrids gets closer to bevs and the biggest problem with these are the batteries. The larger is the traction Battery the bigger problem you are carrying with you in the future. 
Thinking of long term ownership 10+ years , outside warranty cover traction Battery replacement can cost more than the value of the car. And yes, batteries do go wrong and require replacement after some years , used or not , and if not regularly used similar to 12v batteries and all other Battery powered devices these traction batteries will lose capacity over time as chemistry ages and not be able to hold charge, provide power and eventually need expensive replacement. 
If you are after a new car, any form of finance, and then return the car atv3 or 5 years, you can buy phev or anything else like bevs and enjoy faster acceleration, more power, more bells and whistles. 
For all other private buyers especially for long term ownership and used cars purchase Toyota hev , any model or year are the better choice. 

[J2024IE]

thanks  for  all the info,   the price difference between the HEV and PHEV would cover a lot of petrol.

I would keep the car for 1-2 years, so Battery issues would be less of a concern, however  I wonder what the depreciation is like on the PHEV model compared to the HEV.

 

 

 

[Flatcoat]

The depreciation on any new car is stratospheric I it’s first 1-3 years. If you only intend keeping such a short time then buy used. 

[Doc.S.]

Hi, as many have said, your usual journeys would be exclusively done in EV mode (providing you keep the Battery topped up).

I've had my RAV4 PHEV for 3 months now and it easily copes with my daily 20 mile each way commute. I can charge it at work cheaply and do the same the next day.

One thing which you might like to consider is the choice of petrol. It could possibly be an issue if the petrol is sitting in the tank without being used. In the UK the 'normal' fuel is E10 unleaded. This petrol doesn't last long until it goes off and can become inefficient or even unusable. Most websites reckon it has a shelf life of 3-6 months.

However, super-unleaded (E5) is more stable than E10 and is a more efficient fuel.

So if you were going to use the car in EV mode all the time it might be an idea to E5 fuel. I keep the tank about 1/4 full just for peace of mind, plus there's not much point in hauling another 40kg of fuel around in a full tank.

[Oscarmax]

 Our Suzuki Across was new August 2023, we have been using E10, I have now decided to switch over to E5 Super Unleaded, coming from ICE vehicle we are still in the habit of keeping the fuel tank full, just in case, over the winter months are journeys are local us EV the E10 is sitting in the tank, every now and then I would burn off some E10 and just top up the tank (not very cost effective). I need to break this bad habit, using E5 and 1/4 tank seem sound advice.

[Flatcoat]

Agree re use of E5. I have always used Vpower (or similar) diesel or petrol for over 15 years. 

[ernieb]

@Doc.S. You should also be able to run on EV, 40 miles, during the winter months. Especially if you are able to precondition the cabin whilst on the charging cable. This will save traction Battery and certainly make for a cosy commute.

[NASY]

If you liked the PHEV with no EV then I suggest you take another drive with it charged up and I'm sure you will be very pleased with the drive. HEV is a cheaper alternative but really is a different proposition especially for anyone who has predominantly short journeys. Driving on EV really is a joy.

[spicyhotone]

Always used E10 in my PHEV, sometimes 3-4 months between refills, and never experienced any problems.

[Graham1969]

I have the PHEV had it since April and when its charged up it really is fabulous, if you are able to reach a socket to charge it from. Warning though don't purchase with expectation of the free homecharge that was being offered took me 2 months to get one fitted and now I have it fitted it doesn't work, Toyota customer care have been totally useless in getting anything sorted out!

[Flatcoat]

1 hour ago, Graham1969 said:

I have the PHEV had it since April and when it’s charged up it really is fabulous, if you are able to reach a socket to charge it from. Warning though don't purchase with expectation of the free homecharge that was being offered took me 2 months to get one fitted and now I have it fitted it doesn't work, Toyota customer care have been totally useless in getting anything sorted out!

Why are you not contacting the installer/supplier? Toyota simply pay for it and contract it out, in my case British Gas/Hive. I dealt directly with them with my install. 

[Flatcoat]

There is a bit more to the PHEV than different drivetrain. You need to take some time to evaluate both. However bear in mind the extra capital cost is returned with higher value come trade-in. 

[Graham1969]

I have been speaking to both but British Gas have no idea why the homecharge doesn't work but blame Toyota, Toyota blame British Gas pathetic really.