Back to Toyota after many years, but a couple of questions..

[AJPlummer]

As the title says, I am back in a Toyota after many years and I have a bit of an issue with my 2011 Rav4 D4D D-Cat Automatic. It might be nothing, or it might be something but I must confess to being a bit lost as to which.

My main area of concern is with the gearbox. I hadn’t driven an automatic in years other than a VW DSG every so often which I know is not really the same thing but over time, I became convinced that the box is not working as it should. I decided to have it serviced and the filter changed with the genuine Toyota one and while the gearchange became much smoother, nothing else changed much really.

Maybe I have forgotten how a true auto box behaves but it does not seem to put the power down, preferring instead to rev higher than I would like. I see a marked difference in behaviour between driving it in auto and driving it in manual gear select mode. I have noticed that when in manual mode, if I flick the gear lever into auto, the engine revs usually rise whereas they drop down again when flicked back into manual select and I can feel the jeep pull better if you follow what I mean. Is this normal or could it be said that the gearbox is slipping? It isn’t perfect in manual mode either as it will sometimes seem to hold out in a gear longer than it should, or indeed remain one gear too high with the accompanying revving. Maybe I am overthinking this but given the fuel consumption of one of these, I want to ensure there is nothing wrong with it. Are they all like this, or this one slipping meaning I have an expensive problem? Can anyone please share how their jeep behaves? It would be most appreciated as I am in two minds about the car at this point.

Thanks very much, and hello to all,

AJ

[Maaks]

It's CVT 😞

EDIT: 2011 car should have K112 transmission, video is for K111, but quite similar

CVT Toyota K112: specifications, gear ratios, oil (gearboxlist.com)

 

[philip42h]

17 minutes ago, Maaks said:

It's CVT 😞

It's definitely NOT a CVT box - a 2011 Rav4 D4D D-Cat Automatic is equipped with a traditional 6-speed torque converter style automatic box. And a very good one at that  ...

Beyond that, I could really understand the issue the OP is describing and can't tell whether he just doesn't like the characteristics of the auto box, or whether he might have an issue. All I can say is that this forum isn't exactly awash with reports of problems from that particular box ...

[AJPlummer]

Hello everybody and thanks for your replies.

It's not a CVT thankfully. My main issue, and it indeed may be just my own personal perception of the box is the very noticeable difference in power delivery between using the full automatic mode and manually selecting the gear myself. If I switch from auto to manual selection the revs instantly drop and the jeep pulls better. Maybe that is the same for everyone, ...maybe this is perfectly normal but I don't know anyone else who has one of these that I can ask.

I happened to be in the local breakers recently looking for parts for another vehicle and happen to ask one of the owners if there was much demand for Rav4 auto gearboxes. He told me that any automatic Toyota he has in the yard was usually scrapped due to the gearbox.

Despite it being a couple of months since I had the box on mine serviced, it only appears to be improving now. MPG has picked up a little, hovering around 32 which while not great is better than the 30, and occasionally below from previous to that. I think I am going to try a couple of bottles of Wynns injector cleaner and see if that might help a little too. The jeep only has 80 thousand miles or thereabouts on it and is very good in every other way. I'm just simply curious as to what is normal and what isn't.

[Maaks]

On 6/18/2024 at 11:58 AM, philip42h said:

It's definitely NOT a CVT box - a 2011 Rav4 D4D D-Cat Automatic is equipped with a traditional 6-speed torque converter style automatic box. And a very good one at that  ...

Beyond that, I could really understand the issue the OP is describing and can't tell whether he just doesn't like the characteristics of the auto box, or whether he might have an issue. All I can say is that this forum isn't exactly awash with reports of problems from that particular box ...

If you say so. I was relying on WIKI (and it can be wrong) 🙂 Toyota RAV4 - Wikipedia

Found 2010 Toyota RAV4 III (XA30, facelift 2010) 2.2 D-4D (150 Hp) 4WD Automatic | Technical specs, data, fuel consumption, Dimensions (auto-data.net) and they indicate "6 gears, automatic transmission EDC"

EDC =? Efficient Dual Clutch? (probably not)

"Multidrive S" from gasoline engines = CVT

[philip42h]

27 minutes ago, Maaks said:

If you say so. I was relying on WIKI (and it can be wrong) 🙂 Toyota RAV4 - Wikipedia

Found 2010 Toyota RAV4 III (XA30, facelift 2010) 2.2 D-4D (150 Hp) 4WD Automatic | Technical specs, data, fuel consumption, Dimensions (auto-data.net) and they indicate "6 gears, automatic transmission EDC"

EDC =? Efficient Dual Clutch? (probably not)

"Multidrive S" from gasoline engines = CVT

Well, yes ... EDC is probably a Wiki typo. EDC sounds very much like a Renault automated manual - and it wasn't that! 😉 I suspect that it should say ECT (Electronic Controlled Transmission) but I don't know for certain. Either way, it was / is a very nice torque converter style box. (I ran a 2013 D-CAT auto for seven years.)

And yes, the 2.0L petrol was blessed with a Multidrive S / CVT gearbox as a way to reduce emissions before they gave up on ICE altogether.

[flash22]

It is a 6 speed auto conventional box paired with the 2ADFHV 2.2 diesel

the 6 speed is a U660F

sounds like its driving style, the DCT is much like driving a manual, engine rev's match the gear and speed, a trad auto you build speed with rpm till you hit lock up, of course, you have kick down

a good long fast run at least once a month will keep the DPF clear, short journies are the death knell of most modern diesels

 

https://newsroom.toyota.eu/2019-rav4-2010/

 

2.2 litre D-4D 150 diesel engine

Mated to the six-speed manual transmission, the 2.2 D-4D 150 is available with 2WD or the 4WD Integrated Active Drive System.

The 2231cc unit develops 150 DIN hp/110 kW at 3600 rpm and 340 Nm of torque at 2000-2800 rpm. With a maximum speed of 190 km/h, the engine delivers a 2WD 0-100km/h acceleration time of 10.0 seconds, and 10.2 seconds with 4WD.

When mated to the six-speed automatic transmission and 4WD, the 2.2 D-4D 150 unit further benefits from Toyota's Diesel-Clean Advanced Technology (Toyota D-CAT), which incorporates a Diesel Particulate and NOx Reduction filter (DPNR). Thus equipped, the 2.2 D-4D 150 offers performance of 0-100 km/h in 10.8 seconds and a maximum speed of 185 km/h.

When mated to 4WD, the unit returns class-leading CO₂ emissions, for both the manual and the automatic transmission.

 

Six-speed automatic transmission

The 2.2 D-4D 150's six-speed automatic transmission provides a fast, smooth response while maintaining an impressive level of comfort by eliminating harsh shift shocks. A 'Sport' mode offers a more aggressive shift pattern using AI-SHIFT Control (Artificial Intelligence Shift Control).

The new transmission also features a newly developed, 6-speed Sports Direct Shift manual override control, with gear selection in M-mode performed either by the gear shift lever or steering wheel-mounted paddle shifts. M-mode offers a more sporting driving experience, with a lock-up function used from 2nd to 6th gears for as wide a range of gear ratios as possible.

6-speed Sports Direct Shift also incorporates an automatic, throttle 'blipping' function to optimise the speed and smoothness of downchanges. As with the Multidrive S transmission, drivers can also use the paddle shifts to temporarily override the automatic mode.

 

 

[Cyker]

Is there a Sport Mode button or something like that that's pushed in...?

[philip42h]

17 hours ago, Cyker said:

Is there a Sport Mode button or something like that that's pushed in...?

There is a "Sport mode" and the reported behaviour does sound "Sport mode" like ...

Peak torque is provided between 2000 and 2800 rpm. In normal mode the system will try to operate with that range. I.e. if possible, it will cruise at or below 2000 rpm and then drop down to ensure that the revs remain within the max torque band when you ask it to accelerate. Under gentle acceleration it will tend to change up before it exceeds 2800 rpm; under firmer acceleration it will hold on to the revs a little longer.

So, the question for the OP is under normal acceleration / deceleration etc. at what point does the gearbox change up and down?

In Sport mode it generally runs at higher revs across the board. I would use Sport mode if I was following something along a country road waiting for the opportunity to overtake. Being in Sport mode saved waiting that fraction of a second for the gearbox to change down (by changing down potentially some minutes in advance). In Normal mode the car would cruise at 70 mph in 6th at around 2000 rpm; in Sport mode the car would tend not to get up into 6th gear but remain in 5th.

(I nearly never used the Manual mode features - why buy an auto and change gears manually? 🤷‍♂️)

[Hadrian1]

On 6/18/2024 at 1:50 PM, AJPlummer said:

It's not a CVT thankfully.

I wonder why you say that ?  Don't take any notice of YT car reviewers. None of them like CVT's

We are now on our 4th car with a CVT, and we've never had a moment's problem with them.

[Cyker]

To be fair CVTs are generally not great for high torque applications; I'd pick a locking torque converter over a CVT any day of the week if I was towing something or off-roading.

This doesn't apply to the hybrid system since that isn't really that kind of CVT (It just does a very good impression of one  )

Toyota CVTs have come a long way, but it wasn't that long ago that CVTs had a dreadful reputation for poor reliability and over-revving (Mostly Nissan's fault I think  )